Maybe there's room in the world for a device people want, even if it's not the device the majority want? I mean I know Apple is just a small startup company with only a $4 trillion valuation, but maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while.

What “the market wants” is a maximally addictive device. It’s a really low bar even if highly profitable. Bigger screens make it more exciting and addictive.

Just profoundly weird to me that small manufacturers can’t make small phones because they’re small and can’t pay for it, and large manufacturers can’t make it because…(checks notes)…they’re large and don’t want to pay for it even if there’s demand.

> They're giving the market the size people actually want.

No - call it what it is. They are catering to the largest market segments and ignoring the smaller segments who desire smaller phones.

Reasoning as to why is another thing, but it doesn't negate the existence of the segment who does want one.

I don't think they even set out to make a small phone with the SE, they set out to make a cheap phone. They achieved that by reusing older generation iPhone tooling which just happened to be smaller, as was the style at the time. When they refreshed the SE line it too got larger as it graduated to using later generation tooling.

"iPhone 16e Sales Lag Behind SE Models"

Ooops ?

https://www.macrumors.com/2025/06/03/iphone-16e-sales-lag-be...

Looks like the market did like the SE size.

If Apple produced an Iphone SE with battery life that lasted, by making it a little thicker, then people would buy it IMO. The problem with the small phones is they arecreated on the premise that they should be crappy phones.

Of course everyone has a different version of what they consider crappy but bad battery life has got to be at the top of most people's crap-o-meter

While small iPhones don’t sell nearly as well as larger sizes, I suspect they are still a very profitable product as Apple keeps releasing them.

Mind that there is also a feedback loop: applications only work correctly on bigger phone screens.

> They're giving the market the size people actually want.

Some people clear still want those small phones, just not enough for Apple's profit margins.

Is it too big as a phone/SMS device? Yes. But as long as it's smaller than an equivalent digital camera or handheld gaming device or portable GPS it's still appropriately sized for how I mostly use it.

Can’t really want a smaller modern iPhone if no one is selling it.

Foldables…

The price is incredible. Many phones on the market are cheaper than this accessory. Maybe the true market need is “people don't know how much disposable income I'm willing to throw at nonsense”.

> I can fit the biggest iPhone in my pocket just fine in all of my pants

New pro max fits perfectly fine in all my dressier trousers, it is rather big for some joggers though. Especially with Cuccinelli joggers it’s hard to get the phone to reliably stay in the pocket because they’re just not deep enough, so the top of the phone sticks through the opening.

The very easy solution to this has been to just buy joggers with reasonably sized pockets, Lululemon does not have this problem for example.

Anecdotally, just this past month I had a pair of good quality jeans from J. Crew wear out and tear at the pocket due to friction from my iPhone 13 Pro Max. The jeans are fairly lightly used.

I would love a smaller phone that doesn't kill my pants...

Yep. If someone is looking for a more functional item similar to this, Fjallraven sells a "Greenland Pocket" which I used to solve the "too much phone" problem. (And, unsurprisingly, costs many times less while doing much more.)

(I'm not associated with Fjallraven, I just enjoy this bag and think it makes the functionality of the Apple Pocket look even more ludicrous in comparison.)

I believe the issue is that with Jobs gone, Apple's design team is now apparently unable to continue their job. Instead of developing their own UI paradigm for small screens, they keep copying from Google Pixel both the UI ideas and the screen size. And now that they ran out of useful ideas, they turned everything transparent. Why make the iPhone look more like Apple Vision when people so obviously hate the latter? [1]

My prediction is that the age of AI and LLM assistance will make tiny devices the norm. Like those AI pins. Like Siri inside AirPods. Like Meta's AR glasses. But it seems that Apple is losing the race here. They lost their edge when it comes to developing new user interface paradigms.

EDIT: [1] Bloomberg claims 10-15% return rate, which would be massive: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-02-18/apple-... (for comparison, Galaxus reports 2% as normal for Smartphones and <5% for Meta's Quest)

I have a fanny pack. I usually put my phone, a notebook, my wallet, some band-aids, and a couple diapers. Sometimes I add a charger if I think I'll need it. It's quite convenient, and I basically don't put anything in my pockets. Phone sits on its charger or in the bag, usually.

Blazers and sport coats.

They’re purses you can wear that also tend to make you look better.

They’re friggin’ great, and even the largest smart phones easily fit their hip pockets.

No more keys poking you through jeans pockets. No more sitting on your wallet. Even room for a smallish paperback book.

We never should have moved away from them. They’re a utility garment.

Is this supposed to dispute the claim? A man putting his phone in his fanny pack would also signify apple's phones are inconvenient to carry. Apple releasing a 'solution' is them admitting it

Yes, I do this because when I'm using my bike to get into work as it often involves more than one set of clothes and swapping everything between different pockets is annoying so I have a big 'unipocket' fanny pack, my 6.7" phone is still cumbersome in there making digging out other items annoying. And when I'm wearing some pairs of pants and the phone isn't angled just right it will dig into my hip while walking up stairs until it's adjusted. (and that's with a relatively budget android phone, smaller devices are a tiny niche of old less powerful devices that barely have support)

The industry has given consumers the choice, and they overwhelmingly prefer to spend their money on the larger phones.

I want a tiny phone.

But I have kids, and am less willing to compromise on camera quality than I am size.

I’d pay the same price for a smaller phone if the camera specs (and ideally battery life—go ahead and make it a little thicker, they’re too thin anyway) were the same as the larger phones, but they’re not.

I bet those kinds of differences are what do it for a lot of folks. They’re like me and would prefer smaller, all else being equal—but all else is typically not equal, even compared to standard iPhones and not the ultra-high-end ones.

iPhones have always fit in my pockets. Even in different types of pants and different brands. This is already the case and I don't understand how the iPhone isn't already pocket sized.

> small phones don't sell

It's all relative.

If Google sold five million iPhones Mini it would be considered a smash hit. But because it's Apple it's considered a flop because of the ridiculous sales numbers of their other models.

Apple sold 10-15 million of the minis each year, with a marketing budget of approximately zero.

The problem is that everyone believed Tim Cook when he claimed that this is a failure.

opens cupboard

iPhone 3GS

Galaxy S3

Sony XZ1 Compact

iPhone SE 2016

iPhone SE 2020

iPhone SE 2022

Unihertz Atom

> speaks to the bond between iPhone and its user

With this phrasing, does it feel like iPhone owns its user?

It's a large step up from "it's used for job postings in (or closely working with) mainland China", to "it's featured in Apple product announcements targeting a global audience of millions".

Has it been used in an Apple product announcement before? My search is imperfect, but I actually can't find an example (on their /newsroom subdomain).

As recently as two months ago, with the Airphone announcement, they weren't doing this:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-ai... ("Introducing iPhone Air, a powerful new iPhone with a breakthrough design")

> "The 40W Dynamic Power Adapter with 60W Max will be available in Canada, China mainland, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, the Philippines, and the U.S."

It's not a "loose geographical region". It's usually denotes precisely the PRC (People's Republic of China, including mainland China and the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macao) together with the ROC (Republic of China, usually known as Taiwan).

Greater China is never used to describe a region. It means China, Tibet, Macao, Hong Kong and Taiwan according to Apple.

It’s a common, if highly distasteful, euphemism used by entities which must speak out of both sides of their mouths, yes.

> Just like how they removed all the gay dating apps in China yesterday (by request of the government of course).

Those apps have always been illegal in China. Of course, one could say Apple should not operate in China (and this is perhaps true), but they cannot both operate there and break the law.

You can’t fight City Hall.

The iPhone is a Chinese product. China ultimately controls whether or not the iPhone exists. No place else on earth can manufacture 20,000 iPhones an hour, 24/7/365.

Making two hundred million devices of the iPhone’s complexity and quality is not a trivial matter, and takes tens of thousands of skilled (and experienced) workers. Almost all of those people are Chinese, in China, subject to Chinese law. Apple cannot meaningfully fight Chinese law.

“sit comfortably” is a big stretch here. I imagine it must upset him as much or perhaps more than it does you and I. We, after all, can speak publicly about how upsetting it is. He cannot.

He did give a tour of Apple HQ to MBS. But maybe they think they can do more good than harm by selling products in Saudi.

I didn't know that tim cook was gay and here is one message from wikipedia I want to quote

> In June 2014, Cook attended San Francisco's gay pride parade along with a delegation of Apple staff.[85] On October 30, Cook publicly came out as gay in an editorial for Bloomberg Business, saying, "I'm proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me."[86] While it had been reported in early 2011 that Cook was gay,[87][88] at the time, Cook tried to keep his personal life private

I feel like Tim Cook should be a man of his words and try to actually help the community he is proud to be in but I am sure that investors might not be happy but that just goes on to show that maybe even some CEO's could be puppets of shareholders and can be forced to do things solely for profit where their heart might not lie.

I think that another point is that shareholders can also be puppets of CEO's in the case of Elon musk 1 Trillion $ deal shows that imo

I feel like we live in the times where morality can be side-lined for profit and be celebrated. The whole idea why even people can be puppets of each other could be because they get profits and power and influence because of it (basically money most of the times)

But what power do those CEO's have if they can't stand for what they think is right or educate themselves on these matters.

Food for thought.

> virtue was not convenient at the time

Maybe we live just in such times.

This is why, as a gay man, I give people a look when they ask why I still rant about gay rights "even though you guys have marriage and stuff now".

It's 2025, almost 2026 and we're still doing this shit. I don't care if you think I'm icky, I think other people are icky sometimes but I don't try to stop them from existing for it. People are entitled to be who they are.

There is no middle ground. Mentioning "Greater China" isn't neutral. It's precisely the idea of considering "Greater China" as neutral that is de facto siding with the PRC.

No, this is Apple being confident that the USA will drop Taiwan and that this and that siding with China is the "responsible" thing to do.

"Good for business" is not the highest goal a human can achieve. Not even close.

Start with "do the right thing" and progress from there.

Apple is the third most valuable company in the world. Not a mom and pop grocery store.

Apple CEO meets with the US president.

>It isn’t unlike Benelux, or Scandinavia, or Iberian, or Balkan, or Gulf countries.

Greater Israel, Greater Italy, Greater Germanic Reich oh wait I lost the point, I guess any connections to irredentism are purely coincidental.

The population of Taiwan is 23 million. The population of Florida Keys is 82000. Not the same.

US government has FAR more control over Apple as a company. China only has control of the Chinese operations. The president is personally beefing with companies and buying stakes in them. The tariffs alone could have severely hurt Apple, but Apple bent over backwards to appease the president. The US government can simply request an app be removed and Apple and Google will do it worldwide.

China does not have that power over Apple. China can threaten Apple but they have already diversified their manufacturing to other countries so China does not have a strangle hold on the supply line.

I feel like in geo-politics. No country can be good.

Personally, I feel like america still has (had) hope with zohran mamdani but after the recent american shutdown, I would consider democratic party to be an extension of republican party or not doing anything radical except bernie,aoc, zohran and some other people.

I feel like America could have a hope to swing whereas china doesn't imo.

although, I feel like what is happening is that people made (short term?) decisions earlier generations earlier which lead us to where we are today where any country over-all needs a radical change as both europe and america and a lot of other countries need to radicalize what they are doing to give hope to the youngsters

Personally I feel like we shouldn't care much about US or chinese products but rather the ideologies of the product creators if we are worried about things and I think this is one of the reasons I love open source so much.

>The US is worse than China in many aspects, from forever wars to climate over colonialism to fascism and support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide on over a hundred thousand civilians.

My man, the US and China are more or less the exact same here with the exception of forever wars.

Climate? China pollutes like crazy, and so does the US. Colonialism? Maybe not in the same vein but China does engage in actions to other nations, such as Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan that could be classified as colonialism. Fascism? Well yeah both countries are pretty much openly fascist right now. Support for an ongoing extremely violent genocide of over a hundred thousand people? Yeah the US and China are both complicit there. In fact, in China, you're speaking about the regime itself, with context to the ongoing genocide of Uyghur people.

>where is China geonociding hundreds a week right now?

Xinjiang. They put people in camps and take extensive efforts to prevent births, to eliminate the Uighur population over time.

I sometimes wonder what the comments will look like here when China invades/blockades Taiwan, and I suspect they will look a lot like this. Lots of US whataboutism. Note that the OP doesn’t mention the US at all.

I think the discussion is missing the real purpose of this (and which can't be achieved by other vendors) which is to normalize carrying your phone in a way that it's recording without your holding it in your hand to make it obvious that you're recording.

But its like 3D! Totally worth it when other objects are totally not!

I never knew what a difference good pants can make. I usually just bought my pants from H&M/other retailers or Amazon. I usually bought what I considered good value pants for like $30-80. I then, out of curiosity, bought pants that were 2-4 times as expensive (~$150) and it really made a difference. I never really liked the pants I had… they never fit right… they felt very uncomfortable. The new pants I got about 2 years ago (the more expensive ones) were very very different. Very comfy. They also had a lot of nice features that I never knew I needed but that I now want by default…

- A button that just "clicks". Most pants I usually owned had a traditional pants button. Those more expensive ones had buttons that just "clicked". Away goes the worry about a button falling off while you are on the go. - Pockets with hidden zippers: My pants have pockets and in those pockets are smaller pockets with a zipper. Perfect to store things that are small and easily lost.

There are more "features" but those are the important ones. The most important feature is just the material that is used. I barely feel it. Also the company that makes those pants makes other things as well. I ordered a lot of cloths by now and the amazing thing is that everything they make fits me perfectly. I don't know how they do it… When I usually buy pants I have to try on like 10 pants to find one that fits. Even if I pick the "correct" size.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm a fashion lover but a fan of cheap cars, and I could equally say something similar about people who drive new luxury cars when there's plenty of reliable functionality to be had under $10k. There's a lot of craftsmanship that goes into nice clothes, and you can get way more expensive than $500. And fashion is a form of art in a way. What makes a painting worth thousands of dollars?

$500 for something you might wear for a decade straight? A brand-new pair of Levis at JC Penny is gonna run you like $90 anyways. It's not that much more expensive.

But also, quality has diminishing returns in basically every category. At the low end, it's extremely efficient to improve the quality of your product and charge a bit more. At the high end, you can't make any more inexpensive moves to set yourself apart, so you use higher end materials, fabrication methods, and workers.

I don't necessarily believe that a priori spending $500 on a pair of pants is irrational, but I really struggle to imagine any pair of pants being worth that much money unless they are lined with gold or something.

I don't think Steve Jobs went shopping for pants. Nor do many of the people who buy this sort of garment. They either have an assistant who buys things for them, whose goal is to keep them happy and not blow a predetermined budget, or they go to a store and sit in a nice suite where a personal shopper suggests things to them. In either scenario the price of individual items probably don't even get a mention.

I believe the word for it is "rich".

I once paid $1000 for some sneakers. I’m still regularly wearing them 7 years later. I’ve bought $50/$100 and they never last that long. It was an insane purchase at the time, done in a moment of jet lagged madness when my shoes fell apart in an airport. But over time it’s turned out to be a great investment. Smart, comfortable, well made.

statistically, inheritance

Yeah, that is wild. I can't imagine spending that kind of money on pants.

Pro-tip. You can buy them used for a significant discount to rrp.

I don't necessarily believe that a priori spending $500 on a pair of pants is irrational, but I really struggle to imagine any pair of pants being worth that much money

Maybe he's amortizing them.

He says they've lasted ten years, so that's $50/year.

If they last another ten, that's $25/year.

Oh, great. Now I've invented Pants-as-a-Service.

decent hand-sewn raw denim made in the EU/US jeans are minimum $500. and i'm talking non-designer. just fair wages and good materials.

Don't rule out until you've tried it. High end clothing (not just brand name, but real advanced stuff) is pretty amazing in how it makes you feel. I'm inclined to spend on anything I interact with, and clothes is pretty big interaction.

Income inequality is a phrase that pathologizes what appears to be a universal truth. In all types of economic and political systems (after we left the forest, and probably while we were still in the forest), some people have been desperately poor while other people are not. What would be interesting is a single counterexample of sustained "income equality."

That said, our current degree of inequality and the particular way it is distributed seems to be unusual and remarkable. But pointing to someone having a hard time is, IMO, not a critique of that.

in my experience as a tech guy who got into fashion and then after several years went back to not caring: Sneakers are the product category with the least differentiation in value-for-money between the high end (especially designer, but also not-designer-but-still-expensive like common projects) both in terms of aesthetics and quality/durability. You're paying $300 more for a 10% better product. Jeans, outerwear, knits, boots, you can more easily justify that cost

If you change the "Size" on the store page from "Long" to "Short", the yellow is there. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/hs8r2zm/a/iphone-pocket-b...

Surely you understand things like economies of scale, surplus inventories, etc.?

Not to mention, "number of lights" or "ability to communicate through the air" has no real bearing on its value, clearly.

The fashion world's biggest sellers are handbags and shoes, which are practical purchases and tend to feature pretty intricate design details. This is a Speedo for a phone, and it makes Apple's already over-the-top descriptions of its products sound even more absurd.

HN commenter logic: 'if I don't understand it, this is clearly wrong'

'If someone doesn't spend money irrationally like I spend money irrationally its bad'

There is indeed a blind spot.

You're literally describing my thought process, but I thought it was an older April 1st joke resurfacing.

At this point, you may as well get a powerpack for a mini and put it in one of these slings, you could have a crazy powerful machine in your "sock-et" sling thing here...

When the iPhone Air was just another huge phone...but thinner...smh. Apple should put up some page to check interest level in a smaller phone, and with enough interest, go manufacture it. If it is more expensive because economies of scale don't work out, but they create one that is small yet powerful, that's what I would buy at premium, because apparently compactness is a luxury.

And they say you can “create your own personalized color combination”. This is just literally just the pairing of the phone color and whatever color you pick for the bag. Who calls this a customized color combination?!

Suttle joke?

Its showing as $149 for me.

Which still feels outrageous for what is basically a knitted scarf.

Whenever in doubt about your product’s acceptance, just jack up the price and keep a straight face.

    > it costs $229

Surely it's satire! looks around in amazement

I'm sure there will be, will be interested in how many people who want cheap clones want ... that.

I'm not sure there's a sure crossover of big numbers.

My mom knitted a bag for my niece's iphone in 2024, so there already was a trend.

This was one of my first thoughts. Could have knock-offs made for probably $10 landed cost, and put them on Amazon for $99.

I'm as big a weeb as anyone but this is a textbook example of:

>thing >:(

>thing, Japan :O

For the demographics whose mainstream clothing includes no or very small pockets, this has been true for many years.

To a contemporary person their smartphone is probably the single most functionally important object they carry with them. People have always modified their clothes around common items, and then those modifications become subject to fashion trends and then eventually tradition themselves. Think like briefcases and wallets, but also japanese inro, european snuffboxes, decorative scabbards, etc.

This is more like an ancient and near universal practice being applied to a modern tool, rather than a totally new thing in itself.

Note that it's $49 when adjusted for inflation

Nana's been lowkey running a luxury accessories brand this whole time

Honestly… was having a conversation with my aunt about this last week. Knitting, crocheting, and quilting are all high-skill activities and no one charges enough for it.

Only if you're an Apple authorized service provider.

And like this product, it has a Steve Jobs tie-in. His on-stage uniform was Issey Mikaye turtlenecks and Levi’s 501s.

my conclusion is that designer fashion is not for average people

see also apple watch hermes $500 watch straps (https://www.apple.com/shop/watch/bands/apple-watch-herm%C3%A...)

or (non-apple) LV purses, $5000+ https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/women/handbags/all-handba...

or LV phone strap, "Contact Us" https://eu.louisvuitton.com/eng-e1/products/monogram-phone-s...

I found the reddit ManyBaggers recently and there is a cottage industry of high-end bags that seem incredibly made for the price that are in no way luxury products.

That makes much more sense, even "a seamless piece of cloth" would have been much less ridiculous.

Thats the point where I started double checking for april fools

I'm sure theirs is better than anything I could make myself in all sorts of little ways. I'm just not sure it would be $140 better.

On the other hand, if I did make one for myself (which I won't - one purse is enough) it would probably have a 2-color brioche stitch or something like that for more visual interest.

I don't want to kink shame anyone, but I'd be concerned about getting all of that fuzzy caught in someone's throat. Unless I missed the version made of silk.

Do you perhaps mean gauche, as in socially awkward verging on unacceptable or is there a connection to art supplies I'm missing here?

EDIT: or perhaps your phone "helpfully" autocorrected something wrong, as mine did.

But the Hermes watch was at least an Apple watch with some Hermes branding and accessories. This is just... a sock.

Well, I stand corrected.

And yet, they lack pockets.

Mysteries abound.

I invite you to talk to literally any woman.

I don't follow

I may be missing what you’re after for ipad mail but isnt it under the “...” then “select” to select multiple messages?

Or a 2000 euro Hermes Apple Watch with bracelet, but it comes with special wallpaper you don’t get if you just buy the strap or 1000 euro bracelet separately

The strap and bracelet are both really nice though, do recommend if you aren’t very price sensitive.