Geico terminating insurance coverage of Tesla Cybertrucks

72 pointsposted 17 hours ago
by MilnerRoute

59 Comments

Schnitz

15 hours ago

I’m surprised that the article doesn’t mention the complete lack of pedestrian safety, which is so bad the truck can’t be sold in Europe. Geico might not want to pay those claims of sharp steel edges ripping into people.

bencelaszlo

6 hours ago

> I’m surprised that the article doesn’t mention the complete lack of pedestrian safety, which is so bad the truck can’t be sold in Europe

I mean that's not a Cybertruck-exclusive problem

llamaimperative

3 hours ago

Is it actually hard to tell when someone says something like this that they’re referring to extreme points along a spectrum?

Nobody would interpret “the Cybertruck is really bad for pedestrian safety” as “all other trucks are completely fine” or frankly even as “bicycles and rollerblades pose no risk at all to pedestrians.”

gnrlst

5 hours ago

What do you mean? It's basically steel blades and sharp/pointy edges on wheels. I'm sure other vehicles will hurt if they hit a pedestrian at speed, but even getting hit at 5 mph by the cybertruck could create very dangerous wounds.

nothercastle

11 minutes ago

Hardly a Tesla problem though, the grill culture of suvs and trucks is a thing because pedestrian safety is not a design consideration.

ddek

6 hours ago

I’m not sure that is the case, but if it is, it’s interesting to me as a fairly extreme example of the free market self regulating.

andsoitis

15 hours ago

Geico also doesn’t insure certain models of McLarens, Lamborghinis, Jaguars, Bugattis. A quick search reveals there have also been certain Kia and Huyandai models that they don’t insure.

FireBeyond

12 hours ago

> McLarens, Lamborghinis, Jaguars, Bugattis

So they don't insure[1] high end exotics and supercars[2]. I wasn't aware the Cyber Truck was a supercar.

[1] There's also a difference between not offering coverage and actively terminating coverage that was previously offered.

[2] They actually insure basically all Jaguars. There are a couple of people complaining that their rates for a high performance Jaguar model, as a young male, are steep, but that's not exactly the same.

> A quick search reveals there have also been certain Kia and Huyandai models that they don’t insure.

Which I'm fairly certain made the news, too.

Your comment just seems like "Why is this news?"

Even with the Kia and Hyundai theft issues, they didn't terminate coverage, they just issued notices of non-renewal.

They're actively terminating current and open policies for the CyberTruck as quickly as they are legally allowed to. That's why.

bhouston

7 hours ago

> They're actively terminating current and open policies for the CyberTruck as quickly as they are legally allowed to

I am not sure they are actively cancelling insurance as you claim. The main email that caused this news cycle says specifically:

“ ALL COVERAGE ON THE 2024 TESLA CYBERTRUCK PROVIDED BY GEICO CASUALTY COMPANY, UNDER THE ABOVE POLICY NUMBER, WILL NON-RENEW AS OF 12:01 A.M. ON xx/xx/xx.”

https://www.torquenews.com/11826/geico-terminating-insurance...

Which seems to be a non renewal notice.

youngtaff

6 hours ago

> So they don't insure[1] high end exotics and supercars[2]. I wasn't aware the Cyber Truck was a supercar.

It’s clearly an exotic…

mapt

2 hours ago

I often ask in regards to terminating commercial offers of goods and services with a floating price point:

Why? Why not just adjust the price to be commensurate with the cost?

tschwimmer

2 hours ago

Nobody will pay for it and they get hit with headlines that say “Geico raises rates on some customers by x,000%!”

widdakay

12 hours ago

Can someone find more about why GEICO did this? It makes no sense. Furthermore, they could just increase rates if they found accidents too common.

Also, there are much less safe cars out there for pedestrians such as the Hummer EV (complete behemoth) or Rivian (weighs more than CT and has significantly higher frontal profile which is shown to be the largest contributor to pedestrian safety above basically anything else). If it's about breakdowns, that money comes from Tesla's wallet so would make no sense. Even so, I see Cybertrucks driving daily and haven't seen a broken down one yet.

Salgat

10 hours ago

My understanding is that any damage to the cybertruck unibody frame, no matter how minor, becomes a catastrophicly expensive repair. There are many laws surrounding fair pricing of insurance rates, and Geico might not want to go through the legal work of justifying massive rate hikes specific to the Cybertruck over just dropping such a tiny volume of vehicles, especially if their "profitable" pricing just drives all their customers away anyways. Also keep in mind that in the meantime they're locked into their current rates until each state approves a higher rate.

AStonesThrow

8 hours ago

It looks like the Cybertruck is more like a Delorean than I thought!

zamalek

3 hours ago

Insurers work with data/metrics and generally make decisions based on that alone[1]. I often feel that it's unfair that I pay more as a male, because I am an extremely responsible and defensive driver - fact is, men cause more expensive accidents more often. That's the data, that's what insurers care about.

At some point Geico likely did insure super cars, up until they started becoming highly anomalous in the data. The same has happened to cybertrucks, whether your highly restricted sample demonstrates it or not.

Insurance companies don't turn away profitable customers. Cybertrucks became a problem for Geico, but they are being tight lipped as to why; it might not be a reliability issue.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_analysis_(finance...

acdha

2 hours ago

> I often feel that it's unfair that I pay more as a male, because I am an extremely responsible and defensive driver - fact is, men cause more expensive accidents more often. That's the data, that's what insurers care about.

Same - I remember a few friends complaining about this but an older friend basically explaining how insurance worked from the perspective of the company. Almost everyone will swear that they’re a great driver, and they can’t tell the difference until you’ve been driving for years. The only alternative would be the kind of monitoring + speed limiters that most drivers get extremely upset about so it’s unlikely to change before we get L5 self-driving.

joshribakoff

10 hours ago

> they could just raise rates

Well, they (insurance companies in general ) also dropped a lot of homeowners in certain states, rather than simply raising the rates.

Perhaps they have done some market research and determined that there is an inflection point beyond which raising rates would actually reduce profits due to reduced competitiveness

dd82

2 hours ago

Car insurance in general is a race to the bottom with competition. A good quarter has 70% of incoming premium going out to settle claims.

When you have fender bender claims costing 20-40k USD to repair, how do you price that risk?

aleph_minus_one

29 minutes ago

> When you have fender bender claims costing 20-40k USD to repair, how do you price that risk?

This is a solved problem. Ask any actuary who specializes in casualty insurance, or read a standard textbook about non-life insurance mathematics.

rsynnott

3 hours ago

> Can someone find more about why GEICO did this? It makes no sense. Furthermore, they could just increase rates if they found accidents too common.

Very few insurers will insure literally anything (back in the day, Lloyds of London were notably unusual in that they would write a policy on basically anything, though you mightn't like the cost). Most conventional insurers will have a line after which they say "this is too risky, we'll leave it to specialist insurers". Ask anyone who's ever tried to get insurance on a non-conventional-construction house.

And it's a pretty niche vehicle; if they do find it unacceptably risky, then dropping it is presumably a fairly easy decision.

datavirtue

2 hours ago

The reasons listed in the article are spot on. Ridiculously high repair costs is enough. With ridiculously high repair costs come extended repair times (rental car and claims management). There comes a point where just increasing the premium price can't offset risk.

There is nothing practical about Cybertruck ("Cybertruck," really?). It's a collector's vehicle.

widdakay

9 hours ago

Good point I had not thought about the remaining parts of the economics if they did go though with something like a rate hike.

linotype

16 hours ago

> “It makes no sense, as there are other, riskier cars out there. Let me know if you recommend any insurer for the truck. I have eight cars with an amazing record. I will be canceling my entire Geico policy!! Bye-bye!”

Eight cars. Eight. Our planet (for humans anyway) is truly screwed.

blendo

6 hours ago

I’m imagining quite the redneck-y front yard.

sokoloff

3 hours ago

My imagination does not have the person who bought a Cybertruck as their eighth car storing cars on their front yard.

noduerme

15 hours ago

What's the difference if someone has 8 cars or one car? He can only drive one at a time. And at least one is electric.

linotype

15 hours ago

Resources to build them, for one.

anonCoffee

14 hours ago

Each car will likely get used less under him, and then eventually sold/gifted to others at a discounted rate. Those cars will most likely get used through their useful lifespan without any more or less effect on the world than they would have otherwise.

user

12 hours ago

[deleted]

asadalt

15 hours ago

they were likely paid for?

linotype

15 hours ago

yes, most vehicles are, that doesn’t eliminate the environmental impact.

JimmyAustin

15 hours ago

TLDR: If he buys a car a year, and drives the same number of miles as the average American, his total emissions are probably equal to someone who drives 28k miles a year.

Carbon emissions for a Model 3 vs a Toyota Corolla even out after 13'500 miles according to Argonne National Laboratory [1], which is slightly less than the average an American drives per year (14'263 miles [2]). Assuming that he drives as much as the average driver, his cars generate as much Co2 as a Model 3 (definitely not true for the Cybertruck, but he probably has low-build-emission ICE cars in the other 8 to lower the average), and he buys a car a year, he has roughly the equivalent emissions of someone who drives twice the average number of miles each year. For reference, a long haul driver (of which there are 300k-500k in the US [3]) drives 100-110k miles [4] a year (7-8x the average).

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...

[2] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-dri....

[3] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/25/999784202/is-t....

[4] https://www.caltrux.org/driver-faqs/#:~:text=Begin%20a%20Car....

maxerickson

12 hours ago

Truck drivers are doing a commercial activity where it is reasonable to largely attribute the emissions to the customer.

linotype

12 hours ago

Yes, those Americans driving on average 77 miles a day. Every day.

m463

13 hours ago

As folks get older, they usually become responsible for other people.

linotype

12 hours ago

Yes, I’m sure the eight vehicles are for him, his wife and six driving age children. To all drive at the same time.

rad_gruchalski

5 hours ago

You don't know what the context for those registrations is. You just make assumptions.

llamaimperative

3 hours ago

Every thought you have is an assumption, the question is how well-founded they are.

rad_gruchalski

3 hours ago

Good luck basing your life on assumptions.

JaimeThompson

3 hours ago

Absent things that are pure math isn't everything Humanity "knows" basically a series of, while highly supported by evidence in a lot of cases, just assumptions about the way things really work?

rad_gruchalski

an hour ago

There’s no pure math in making assumptions about someone’s registrations. In optimal situation one may ask a question. In suboptimal one has to give a benefit of the doubt. An example: lawyers don’t assume. Almost everyone else just assumes stuff. Assuming and not seeking for verification is why there’s so much disconnect between individuals.

stonethrowaway

15 hours ago

Personal vehicles? Commercial vehicles? Small business?

LatteLazy

2 hours ago

Is their any evidence of this applying to anyone other than this specific example?

I ask as I cannot find any. And the email quoted is quite specific ("reviewing YOUR record" and "YOUR policy is being cancelled").

Being on a multi-car policy complicates the logic here. As does the specific location (California has laws limiting insurance rate increases that lead to exactly this).

But it's entirely that this is an isolated change with nothing to do with the overall vehicle.

The fact he has 8 other cars makes me suspect he hit some limit they had not previously enforced...

jerlam

14 hours ago

Doesn't Tesla offer their own car insurance? I doubt they would drop one of their own vehicles, but the first page of search results showed a lot of negative comments.

m463

13 hours ago

Telsa insurance snoops on your driving and behavior.

nick_

13 hours ago

That's good though? I'd love for my premium to not subsidize the payouts to parties involved in crashes caused by aggressive drivers.

LOL the downvote. This site is entertaining.

joshribakoff

10 hours ago

You’re probably being downvoted because the metrics they use do not measure whether you are a safe driver.

The metrics simply correlate with accident rates. For example, your premiums increase if you drive late at night, which does not mean that you are a bad driver. Their metrics also do not punish you for accelerating aggressively or driving at high rates of speed (only if you turn too fast or hit the brakes too hard, but if I slam on the brakes in the name of safety, or perform an evasive maneuver, does that mean I am an unsafe driver?)

Also, it’s worth pointing out other insurance companies have a solution for this that has worked for decades. If someone proves they are an unsafe driver by receiving a infraction or filing a claim, then you adjust the rates. No need to spy on the person with invasive amounts of data, or use arbitrary metrics that use correlation instead of causation. But Tesla has to reinvent things that were not broken in the first place, like door handles (just replaced the door handle on a brand new model S because dust got in there LOL).

sokoloff

3 hours ago

> if I slam on the brakes in the name of safety, or perform an evasive maneuver, does that mean I am an unsafe driver?

If you have to frequently do that, it's probably because you put yourself in situations where an earlier safer choice of action would have avoided the need. Frequent abrupt/high-G maneuvers to turn accidents into near-misses probably does correlate strongly with future losses (you’re eventually going to “fail to miss”).

"A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill.” — Frank Borman.

im3w1l

2 hours ago

It's a nice sounding quip, but I don't agree at all. The pilot putting themselves in risky situations will acquire a superior skill. Which will partially, but not nearly fully, compensate for the risky situations they put themselves in.

A bear whisperer is more likely than an average person to be eaten by a bear. An experienced cave diver is more likely than an average person to drown.

sokoloff

an hour ago

The airline pilot putting themselves in risky situations for training value is doing that in a simulator, not while flying the line.

Kirby64

8 hours ago

Teslas offering isn’t particularly different from any of the other traditional insurance companies that offer the OBD2 dongle or companion app to monitor your driving. The only difference is there’s no opt out for a higher rate.

Also, Tesla isn’t unique here. Root insurance did this well before Tesla did.

FireBeyond

12 hours ago

I wonder if your premium is higher if you've bought Ludicrous Mode, because there's a higher possibility of you being one of those ... aggressive drivers.

josephcsible

12 hours ago

Tesla Insurance is only available in 12 states.

user

13 hours ago

[deleted]

user

15 hours ago

[deleted]