100%. It was so funny to see how for years, everyone on HN was harping on about how well a smaller iPhone would sell. Then Apple finally released the iPhone mini and nobody was buying it, so they had to kill it after a couple of iterations.

Basically, try to do the opposite of what HN is saying and you might just create a successful product.

Contrary to popular belief, Apple did not kill the mini because iphone 13 mini sales were poor. And they were poor.

Apple killed it because Mini 14s are illegal in Europe. There are tons in the US though.

"Bring back the headphone jack, it's what everybody wants and will sell squillions!"

Being average person is like winning lottery. Everyone is making products for you.

Same here. I ditched the google pixel fold after a year because the hardware had some issues, also tbh I prefer the iOS ecosystem. I’m so glad this is coming out.

As a dev who regularly works on apps for both platforms, I think one of the main causes for poor support for form factors beyond a standard smartphone on Android boils down to Google refusing to give developers fully fleshed out APIs to support said form factors.

Instead, they just hand you some poorly documented loose parts in a box and tell you, “good luck” and you’re on your own to fill the gaps. Compose is a little better about giving the tools you need than the preceding Android Framework, but it’s still much more “assembly required” and “batteries not included” than the UIKit+SwiftUI world is.

Many iOS apps built using system components will behave 90%+ correctly on the Duo by just compiling against the iOS 27.1 SDK because there are well supported methods of doing things that Apple can leverage to reduce dev work. In contrast, on Android there's 10 ways of doing anything none of which get full-throated support (on top of all the other ways devs invent), and so any time it gains support for a new form factor almost nothing is automatic and it all falls on the devs’ shoulders.

It would depend on the sales volume. For a long time the iPad has been available and many developers simply are content to have a stretched version of their iPhone app on their iPad, because the sales volume isn’t sufficient. If foldable phones sell like iPads, this could very well happen to them too.

> "A large fraction of the flaws in software development are due to programmers not fully understanding all the possible states their code may execute in."

This is a quote from John Carmack and should sit over every developers monitor. At the same time, OS designers should be doing everything in their power to reduce the number of states a developer has to think about.

> As a recent Android foldable phone owner (Google Pixel)

"There are dozens of us!" (not me though, I wouldn't buy a Pixel foldable)

I don't want to be pessimistic, but I can see a single app now showing two different feeds to doomscroll.

Developers will design apps for Apple's foldables.

I agree. The demos were great. They really showed off how things you already do today are "better" on two screens. This is in contrast to the Vision Pro where the demos were of things that were neat but I can't see myself needing (watching 3D captures, watching a big virtual cinema screen).

I think this will be a hit, but the $2k is a bit much for me to even consider getting one. Obviously they'll likely drop that price over time.

Is it really the first generation though? The screen is obviously 1st gen for Apple, but you'd think the rest of it is not: OS, battery, camera.

The Apple Vision Pro was a rare early entry into a field. Usually they wait until the technology is established and the userbase is just starting to take off, as is currently the case with folding phone displays.

Samsung has already worked out the major kinks for folding displays, over dozens of products used by multiple phone manufacturers including themselves, and Android has worked out how to handle the various use cases between the outer screen and inner screen, when closed, open, or partially open, so Apple can pull from the current state of the art and launch with a more fully developed product, as they usually did before the Apple Vision Pro.

I find it sad that they're doing it all pre-recorded.

They're still as cringe as they've been for years; with fake hand movements and marketing-pilled bs postures.

Globally, mobile+tablet crossed 50% of web traffic in October 2016 (51.3% vs. desktop's 48.7%) [0]. For the world minus HN, we’re entering the second decade of phones being useful computers for the most common definition of useful.

[0](https://gs.statcounter.com/press/mobile-and-tablet-internet-...)

I think it's clear that Apple has recognized that their target markets don't care to have useful computers. Just look way back to when Steve Jobs was still alive and he was talking about how "PCs are going to be like trucks. Fewer people will need them. And this is going to make some people uneasy."

They could certainly add features to make them more like general purpose computers, but there's a bit of product development and engineering "tax" they'd have to pay over time to maintain that aspect. Much easier from a product development standpoint to create products that provide a walled-garden experience, especially if that's what most customers want.

I have a Chromebook with an ~11 inch screen. It’s basically the minimum size where a keyboard is still useable. I like it a lot, but it’s actually too big when I want to use it as a tablet.

I think this is the tension. Or maybe we just need to master one handed keyboards.

Samsung dex really excited me when I tried it, but it still had a little ways to go. I am shocked it's not a bigger priority.

“Useful computer” is subjective. It seems to be difficult for HN users to imagine a device that doesn’t have a terminal for example, but the overwhelming majority of users simply do not care. Many of them manage just fine with a smartphone as their primary (if not their only) computer, so clearly they are useful enough.

Android is getting close, with Google adding desktop support akin to Samsung's Dex when the phone is connected to a dock.

Apple has had a patent[1] for like a decade at this point which involved placing an iPhone into a slot on a laptop so it could be used in a laptop form, with the phone itself serving as the touchpad.

[1]: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-patents-device-that-doc...

Edit to add: the phone itself is intended to be the main processing unit, the “laptop” is just a screen and keyboard.

abuse over a monopoly is the reason. probably you already knew that though?

if they made it a useful computer, they couldnt charge 30% of revenue to their app store customers

At this point I don't even really need a phone. Nobody makes calls anymore and I can use my watch for 911 calls.

What I need is a more portable iPad. But that would cannibalize iPhone sales.

That seems to be entirely the purpose of this device. Instead of just a larger display, it's meant to provide a "second monitor" for multitasking or more context.

With terminal emulators, tailscale, local and remote agents, there's never been so much computing capability accessible from your pocket before.

What do you want to do on your iPhone that you can't do now?

Have you seen how the average person uses their phone?

You want what, a terminal that you type on w/an onscreen keyboard?

Apple's lack of vision and fear of innovation. Jobs is gone. We're back to 90s Apple. Dumb ideas become dumb products, and no one has the balls to say, No.

It's easier to make an existing thing better. But far harder to come up with a new idea.

You can get something quite useable these days by plugging a pixel into a USB dock with a monitor and a keyboard + mouse

How are you gonna do mandatory age verification on a full fledged computer?

do you not consider your phone a "useful computer"?

Artificial limitations open many new avenues for new and exciting revenue streams.

The moment apple ship MacOS on their iPads, sales for their macbooks will all but collapse.

This is the biggest disappointment, imagine running a full blown "Ubuntu Touch" that gives you the freedom of Linux with full root access. This is the biggest failure of legislation in the 21st century so far that has enabled a strict Android/iOS duopoly.

I sincerely hope one day we can free these hardware devices from the shakles of their software and run anything that's possible.

Until such a time iOS devices are strictly off limits until at least a grapheneOS can run iOS at a minimum.

> I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did

Pretty sure that developer interest is not to be a problem. The Duo will sell more units in a month (or less) than every AVP ever sold.

Apple told developers in June at WWDC to not assume fixed screen sizes. Well-written apps will work on any screen size thanks to Apple's APIs.

Some apps will need to be tweaked to take advantage of some Duo features no doubt, but I suspect that's not going to be a deal breaker.

I’m in the exact same situation. Been upgrading every year for a long time (via the Upgrade Programme, making doing so more or less “free”). I was absolutely jazzed they finally did an orange phone, and this is the first year in a while that…I just don’t care. The Duo is far more expensive than I could ever entertain (plus buying a first-gen Apple product has never been a good idea), and there is quite literally nothing in the 18 Pro that makes me want to upgrade.

I may be swayed by a second gen Air in the spring, as I would like a lighter phone that feels less of an imposition in my pocket and my life in general. But it almost certainly won’t have the zoom camera, which has unexpectedly become one of my favourite and most used features of the 17 Pro. Why the two-camera phones all come with the ultrawide instead of the telephoto is baffling to me. Perhaps I’m an anomaly, but I never use the ultrawide lens.

To get close to the same functionality as the Duo, you'd buy an iPhone 18 Pro ($1199) plus an iPad mini ($599); that gets you to $1,798. If you want more storage than the entry level iPhone 18 Pro or iPad mini, you're going to surpass $2000 pretty quickly.

> I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did

Apple can force iOS devs to do whatever they want. It may be basic support, but Apple devs will do whatever Apple tells them to do.

Just checked the price in my home country (Brazil) and it's fantastic: the Duo starts at BRL 21999, which is roughly USD 4300.

You could do the leasing route if you upgrade every year. Might pinch less.

Wait for 2nd gen, always

It's high, but Apple's financing arm has it at $84/month, which is a bit more stomachable if you really want it.

I don’t think it’ll face the developer interest problem. Devs go where the money is and consumers seem to love foldables.

I like that blue though.

I don't know, $1999 seems almost kinda reasonable considering how much an iPhone Pro costs and how utterly fucked the current memory prices are.

It was useful for paper because it helped save time in cutting, folding, printing etc. None of that matters for a phone.

This is such a non issue given that iOS developers already have so many resolutions to test.

The way this comment was going I was pleasantly surprised to see that the iPhone Duo adhered to the ISO standard.

I always forget the US doesn't use A4 etc. (or do you?)

But it's not really the same aspect ratio, is it?

Because one is used predominantly vertically, and the other horizontally.

As long as there's this landscape vs portrait difference, how does the aspect ratio similarity actually help?

I really assumed the point of this was going to be to complain about how no phone/phone cases are exactly the same... which is an absolute scourge on society that I assume is continued by Apple here.

People mythologising Apple design will never get old

Too wide to fit in anyone's pocket, but the ratio is the sine of 45 degrees! Seems like a very non-Apple thing to do, honestly. My jeans don't care about math.

Take a sheet of A4 paper. Fold it in half. Fold it in half again. That’s about the size of the Duo inner screen (a little larger actually, A6 is about 13% smaller than the Duo screen).

There are compromises to any proportion decision. A tall rectangle is much more natural to hold than a fat rectangle, especially at the size of this device. The user also has to relearn the location of on screen buttons that have always had a consistent location.

That's not far off the 4:3 of the Samsung Z fold 8. Around 4.24:3.

Surely the next version will unfold twice to reach A3 size

You mean all two states?

sounds useless and ridiculous

But what's the point?

I mean, I wouldn't hate it if they got into cars

The good news is Apple made a more practical dual-screen device than most previous attempts. The “big square” UI was awkward for both reading and video. Apple not only made it rectangular but kept it in the magic aspect ratio that’s able to be shared by single and dual screens.

I had written off dual screen when the square layouts were the norm, but I think Apple has struck a good balance here between screen size and price+chunkiness+serviceability. I won’t be holding my breath for an iPhone Trio. (Not to be confused with Palm Treo.)

> After a while, I think dust would inevitably get in the hinges and wouldn't fold flat. I've seen demos in stores of newer gen Samsung foldable phones and it looks like those wouldn't fold flat

For your first point, the iPhone duo is rated IP 68 Dust and Water protection. Literally none of Samsung's book foldables so far have achieved this IP rating.

I trust Apple to do better here; for example, after about ten years, no one has caught up to Face ID yet.

I trust Apple likely did better, though they’ve made bad decisions before (Studio Display camera).

My biggest worry is the lack of Face ID. I love Face ID so much. I know I can do the Apple Watch unlock, but I don’t want to. I just want my phone to immediately look unlocked to me. and Face ID did that the vast majority of the time.

So I’m very curious to hear what the hands-on impressions from people are. Is the screen good? Can you notice or feel the crease? Is there anything else wrong? Is not having Face ID as annoying as I suspect?

At least there’s something really interesting this year. It’s more than just faster and better cameras, which is nice. And having actual aperture blades on the pro is great.

But this is more interesting.

> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.

Not around here it isn't. The iPhone Duo starts at $2999 for the base storage. The Fold 8 is $2399 and even the Fold 8 Ultra is $2699. This only confirms that Apple has been steadily pricing themselves outside what I'm willing to spend. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I get $3k of value from it? No. This one is not for me at this price.

Is an inner screen camera really worth it? There's already a camera cutout on the outer screen, plus you can open the phone and use the full-size camera with the outer screen, which results in much more flattering imagery than the wide-angle lenses selfie cameras use. It's like taking the difference between an under-screen selfie camera and a regular selfie camera, and applying that again.

It makes sense to have one screen for an as-large-as-possible uninterrupted display, and another for maximum utility.

I like that Samsung doesn't cut as much corner off as Apple, but ideally I'd like to find a manufacturer that doesn't cut corners at all. Even though I'm not likely to buy another iPhone product, I am excited that Apple doesn't cut holes in their interior display, because that'll probably get other manufacturers to do the same.

I suspect there are plenty of people out there who habitually buy the most expensive of what Apple has to offer in any category. I guess Apple was leaving money on the table by not having anything in this price range in the first place.

> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.

The Fold8 is $1,899.99 (street price significantly lower as usual), the Duo is $1999.

The under-screen camera essentially doesn't matter. For the three times you're in a meeting with it, it'll hold. For everything else, you'll use the primary camera and the front screen.

Apple usually gets heat for not being the first to a feature, even when they’re the first with an implementation that’s actually good, not just a gimmick

Of all the ISO standards I wish the US would adopt, ISO216 would be it for me, hands down. I recently needed to buy some A6 thermal paper, a size no one seems to offer anymore. And who cares! Why would they! I can just buy an A4 sheet and cut it in half twice, no fuss.

The aspect ratio is the biggest problem with foldables.

The main reason I'd want a bigger display is for more immersive content like videos, which are typically 16:9. On a Pixel Fold, you have all the added complexity of the fold to make the videos you watch on the train 1cm taller.

The iPhone Duo unfolds to be the same height as the iPhone Pro Max. Sounds like it has the exact same problem - a bunch of added complexity without a practical use for it.

-----

> Touch ID is integrated into the side button

Another major flaw with the foldable form factor - it's hard to distinguish holding the device e.g. to pocket it and holding the device to use it. My foldable does the smartphone equivalent of butt-dialing way more often than any phone I've had before because it likes to unlock itself when I'm putting it in my pocket

I enjoyed the subtle shade (presumably at Samsung) when they discussed existing foldables having an awkward size, and choosing their new ratios and the asymmetric form factor. One edge square, one edge rounded, so all edges are rounded when open.

My pockets don’t care much about ISO paper standards (not sure why you call it metric? That doesn’t have much to do with the metric system as far as I’m aware?)

But it makes it really weird to type one handed I think.

As a reading device that is great, but as a phone that is wide.

I see a possible future where we have ultra thin devices that can be successively unfolded to larger formats based on this ratio, making size-based product variety obsolete. After that we get screen origami.

Nearly impossible to actually buy A4 paper in the US

Apple's submarine introduction of A* papersizes to the US.

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

Me. I get why people like small phones. But, I've have the iPhone Jumbo Huge edition for a long time now. I use my phone as a pocket tablet 10X more than as a phone.

Looking at the Duo specs https://www.apple.com/iphone-duo/specs/ vs my current 12 Max Pro specs https://support.apple.com/en-us/111874 it looks like the differences I care about are

1) 1878 pixels over 4.64" vs. 1284 over 3.07" 2) Default camera mode is 48 MP vs 12. Other modes are surprisingly similar. 3) A much faster CPU

I'm sure there are 1,000 more small differences. But, my 12 Jumbo Huge from late 2020 still runs great. If I were to upgrade, I'd get the Duo. We'll see how much longer I keep waiting, I guess.

The other night I was at an event and pulled out my iPhone 13 mini to show some people a video I had taken -- the two people on either side of me exclaimed and pulled out their iPhone minis and we all laughed about holding on to them until they turn to dust.

> Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

I have bad eyesight. I've worn bifocals since I was 16, and I'm twice that age now. I literally used to carry around a 7" tablet in my pocket in college because I didn't have a smartphone yet. I want to be able to make things big so I can read them easily and not have to scroll constantly.

At this point it's feeding screen addiction.

When I go for walks I only bring my smart watch. If I break an ankle or someone has an emergency we can talk. But I can't pull up a bench and doomscroll for an hour.

People in their forties with money and declining eyesight who refuse to wear reading glasses until they really have to. (Me)

I can't help but notice how many times they mention "viewing content" during the demo.

It almost feels like they make smartphones not to be handy tools for the digital age (who am I kidding), but for ultimate content consumption.

A tablet the folds up and fits in my pocket is perfect. Tablets are better for reading and watching things - they just kinda suck to carry around.

> Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

I literally just got 7 pairs of pants tailored with bigger pockets so they could hold my freaking phone without it falling out all the time. I would love a smaller more petite phone.

Lots of people. There’s a reason folding phones have been a big story for years.

Maybe they only sell to 5% of users but they sell and at top prices, meaning more possible profit.

And you can’t grow the iPhone at the current sizes. Everyone who once wants at one of those sizes already has one. You either have to convince them to upgrade or switch, and those are both hard.

However, if you give them a choice of something they haven’t had before, it’s way easier. Get the people who wanted to fold and went to android and would like to come back. Get the people who have a max and want something bigger. Get the people with an iPhone 13 who are simply curious enough to do the upgrade, but otherwise would’ve stood still.

Gotta sell.

You are, I'm afraid, in the minority.

Apple produces a "small" phone (S or Mini series) only every few years because that's enough to saturate that market.

I want the rest of you to have big phones, so that the concept of "mobile friendly websites" can die. This is my sole interest in phones. So I hope the Duo can be held comfortably in landscape orientation, but I guess in fact it can't be held comfortably at all. Oh well.

If everybody thought like you they wouldn't have discontinued the iPhone mini because nobody bought it.

There's also plenty of small Android phones.

I like my Apple phone 4s too it was fine in its time but these days I need a bigger phone because the eyesight isn’t exactly what it used to be. I don’t need a giant phone, but I need something a little bit bigger than a 4s.

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

Me! Sounds great. Ideally a full fold up laptops or some sort of HUD, but I'll take a pocket folding tablet for now.

Well, I'm with you and I was very excited when the iPhone Mini came out. However, the capabilities weren't equivalent to the regular-sized Pro (probably due to space reasons). So I didn't buy one despite loving the size and now cannot complain that it was discontinued.

IMHO, one of the reasons I've been delaying an upgrade is because the standard sized iphone 13 ( not even pro ) I've had for a few years now is big enough already, anything larger just would not be ergonomic ( and I have large hands )...

Me. I love my Pro, and this year I'm switching to Max. My eyes (at 48) aren't what they used to be.

> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Folded, I get, I want it to be a "regular size", but the only reason I don't like big devices is because they are clumsy to store in my pocket and use/grab one handed. If I can use it BOTH ways, now I have a choice. One handed for quick usage, and two handed for extended sessions. For $2K, yeah, I'm going to want a full fledged computer in my pocket.

I carry an iPhone because I love the size. I carry an iPad to read. This would be nice, although I prefer to keep these devices separate. The iPad isn't connected to my life, so it can enter my bedroom.

It's not a 2000 buck problem though.

I used to be a fan of smaller phones -- my current one is a 12 mini.

I'm getting this thing.

Changes in eyesight change your priorities.

I also want a small phone. I was happy with a Sony Xperia X Compact which is one inch shorter than my current Samsung A40, which is shorter and lighter than almost everything else.

The answer is people want that. It's not a novel idea. Huawei's folding phones are even bigger and they sell like hot cake at least in China.

Don't blame Apple. They tried.

That's why I prefer the flip format, over fold. Typing this on a Flip 3 I've had since 2021, very happy with it.

My iPad is my primary computer so... me.

most people want bigger phones, apple made smaller iphones and they didnt sell

They tried mini iPhones. They didn’t sell well. Unfortunately the market is just not there.

The obvious answer is that people actually want bigger phones and you're in minority. But no, let's pretend what you personally want trumps that and ridicule them for it instead.

> Who wants bigger phones?

That's a mix, people like phones of all sizes.

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

But this question is silly. When your reference point switches from people buying phones to people buying tablets, there's a huge demand for tablets that are more portable.

Yeah I’d love another mini, but alas.

"Who wants bigger phones?"

Everyone who buys larger phones instead of the iPhone Mini. The market decided that.

the iphone mini unfortunately did not kill nor do most small iphones

How many times do HN users have to be told they are not the majority?

If you look at phone sales Pro Max out-sells the regular Pro

Regular people like big phones

>I want smaller phones.

You want a Zanco phone. They are tiny. Apparently designed to be small enough for prisoners to keep in their orifices.

new foldables are surprisingly strong along the spine. Not impossible to snap or damage but would support being accidentally sat on without it being catastrophic, for example.

Considering how many comments I regularly see on Hacker News from people who still love their M1 MacBooks, I’d say that’s not a particularly strong maxim.

Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say I hope I'll at least get to update this comment down the line while holding that gorgeous looking phone in my hand

I get the sensibility of that advice but isn't that the case no matter when you buy it? I mean, they announced a nice iPhone Pro, optimized over multiple generations, and then immediately made it look primitive with the Duo. :)

*especially from Apple. I live by this maxim.

Of course, if too many people heed this advice there won't _be_ a second version to wait for.

Especially Apple. Buying a first gen Apple product hasn't been great since like 1999 at least. Very few exceptions.

One big difference from Steve: it isn't the Steve show anymore. The people showing this stuff off are the people who lead the the teams that work on these things.

It's so much cooler to me to see the people closer to the work talking about it rather than just Steve Jobs, as amazing as he was to watch. I'll take slightly stilted any day of the week as a tradeoff.

Ternus did introduce a new rhetorical thing, though. He framed some of the guiding principles during the opening and throughout as ideas originating from himself, not Apple. Cook rarely said "I" in relation to a claim, other than "I'm so proud of" X, Y, Z. That's a bit more product guy, a bit more Opinionated. I am hoping for more of that.

People under estimate how hard it is to talk naturally in front of a camera.

There’s a reason why acting as a profession exists.

Don’t forget about how they desperately try to figure out what to do with their hands.

I do hope John Ternus & his team change it up, but I wasn’t expecting it from this event. He’s only been CEO for 9 days & this was probably shot before then.

There is no matching Steve, but I would like to see Apple try at least one live event again a year. Covid is what brought around the super rehearsed video presentation, and it fit Cook well, but are the days of live keynotes really done?

It’s been a while since I watched an Apple presentation, but I caught a bit of this one. And I spent the whole time trying to figure out who it was for - the presenters didn’t seem to express any genuine excitement about the products, and it didn’t convey any useful information that couldn’t be better shared by just posting the slides.

The only thing I can see is that it generates some clips for the presenters to share on their LinkedIn pages. I assume there is prestige in being selected as a presenter, and the rest of the show serves its purpose simply by existing.

Apple needs to bring back live keynotes instead of this overproduced TV show.

> Relative to Steve's emotionally-rich casual-coded excited-to-share delivery.

Example 1,494,298 of “most people aren’t Steve Jobs.” Can’t believe we are still doing this comparison. In a few weeks it will be 15 years old.

That’s something I noticed as well. It was very subtle, but my brain was telling me that something was off and the way people spoke was very artificial.

apple needs to rethink so much more fundamentally. Ternus talks identically to Tim Cook. Indistinguishable. It’s like when Jobs left, Apple became a reflection of the superficial touchstones that Jobs left behind, rather than the CEO defining what the culture is, and evolving it.

Steve Jobs built sand castles at Apple, these guys are building Kings Landing.

Give him 6 months... usually it takes a bit to change things around (including marketing / pr presentations).

But, he has been part of Apple for too long, and probably has internalized that style.

Hope he brings good change though...

Brand is brand. CEO is not brand.

Craig F with his constant foot-shuffling...

I loved the disclaimer at the end of the iPhone Pro model that felt distinctly non-Apple and more akin to a drug commercial, "Usage of heavier models may be limited. Subscribers to certain iCloud+ plans will likely receive higher usage quotas. Now here's Sri to talk about electronics!"

People are insufferable with the amount of criticism

Like no one is above reproach and def everyone is open to criticism, it to open a thread with 1200 comments and see this as the first comment was super annoying

So much stuff to discuss and we are focusing on some presenters tone? jfc

a very neurotypical response

The fact that it works with the pencil is a huge selling point for me. I wasn't really interested in a folding iPhone, but having something I can write on without also needing to carry an extra device or pocket notebook is really cool.

There's totally valid criticism to be made about the durability, not to mention price, but the pitch is crystal clear, "your phone can be a tablet on-demand". You (the proverbial you, not necessarily every person) always have your phone with you, but often don't have a tablet or laptop.

For many people the phone is the only computing device they use. Keeping portability and offering a larger display is a compelling offering for those people.

I tend to agree with you.

I quite like the idea of a tablet I can keep in my pocket. If there was some sort of first-party attachable keyboard (a la the iPad magic keyboard), I'd be strongly considering getting this. In the age of AI and increasingly-mature cloud agents, I can get a lot of my work done from a setup like that.

Galaxy Fold is popular with older people who have trouble reading small text

I no longer need an iPad Mini in my bag with this thing...

> $2,000 for a phone? Holy price point, Batman. No thanks.

Isn't that basically in line with the competition? Cheaper, even, than some of the competition?

I might get one. I've been using a mini for years and am pretty much giving up on Apple ever making one again. The AI features finally seem worth an upgrade, and I don't love the size of the Air, standard iPhone, or Pro/Max models.

If I'm going to have to two-hand it, this is perhaps not the worst. Also, it might be more one-handable when closed than regular iPhones.

Is it very expensive? Yes, especially if you don't opt for the base storage (256 is not enough in the age of LLMs). But I've not upgraded in 5 years, so I've got budget to spare.

> $2,000 for a phone?

> I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.

But what's the monthly price with Apple's upgrade program? I'd bet that's how most people will be buying it (me included, if I decide to get one).

they're definitely hoping the people who can't afford it simply lease it like an expensive car.

You remind me of the (in)famous comment by Steve Ballmer when the iPhone was first introduced .

Most people don't buy their phones, they just finance it through the phone carrier as an "upgrade".

The phone carriers then upsells their more expensive plans.

In Canada they range from $3000-$4800. Absolutely bonkers prices.

Just Klarna (or shall we say, "Apple Upgrade" [1] now) it. You need to consume. Not want, need.

1: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/07/apple-upgrade-launche...

5 different people messaged me today saying they are pre ordering a duo

None of those people have ever messaged me about any other phone event ever

I don’t see the problem with the pricing. It’s the most used gadget and its an iphone and ipad in one.

Few pay it directly. It's paid in installments, subsidized by the carrier, traded-in for for an old but still okay phone, etc.

And those who want to boast, can of course buy for the full price. This is a non-zero share of the target market.

I try and usually succeed at using my phones for around 3 years, so it's not out of the question. Still have another year on my current one, I'll check out the next duo next year.

I am with you on this one, probably sales charts are up for foldable phones but I am not sure those people are reading the room correct. We want smaller devices more tactile if we wanted ipads we would get ipads.

Depending on the age, people are spending between 4-6.5 hours a day on their phone. How much are people spending on computers? Their mattress? 2,000 for the cutting edge version is frankly reasonable for what a phone provides in this day and age, especially considering the last 3 years of inflation in the US...

to sell a phone for such a ridiculous price you need to make it as obvious as possible - a folded phone is pretty obvious - now people can buy it as a status symbol. what's the point of a status symbol if not everybody around you immediately recognizes the item as very expensive. there you go.

$700 premium for Duo compared to iPhone Pro Max 18. Exactly the price of iPad mini 256GB.

It's not a phone, it's a status symbol fashion object.

I'd imagine its targeted in particular at producers - e.g. content producers.

There's enough buyers in the market.

It has Touch ID

according to the blurb you can lease it $60/month

$2800 in most of Europe

yeah, insane.

It’s $2250+tax for europoors

i love that we get these comments, even 20 years later. the phone costs what many (most? even?) folks on HN make in a day, after taxes.

Honestly, that doesn’t seem all that crazy. I was actually expecting it to be closer to $3k

Formally specified: there exists some human woman, in whose hand this will fit.

It was clever that they used the reference point of a passport. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complain about passports being unwieldy.

I was actually looking forward to a smaller iPhone. To have less addictive screen time. It looks like the Air was a once-thing. I don't see them releasing an e-ink phone either.

Maybe the answer lies in only wearing an Ultra watch if it becomes powerful enough and can function independently of a phone.

Perhaps with a PopSocket.

I’m a little disappointed with how big it looks folded, I was hoping for a mini that could unfold…

or pocket

no

Most women I knew with shattered screens had relatively large phones (max, plus, etc.), and the few of them who listened to my advice and got smaller phones, never broke the screens. Either girls over estimate their hands size (I guess compared to some YouTuber they see), or maybe bigger screens is just a status, or something else, but most girls have large phones for some reason.

I feel like it’s actually designed more with women in mind. Instagram influencing type women who will think nothing of spending $150 a month on it.

Canonical was simply 14 years too early, but we are rapidly apporaching this vision: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/02/ubuntu-for-android-c...

This is Apple's Achilles heel.

If another company could release something like the Duo that seamlessly switches between phone, tablet, and desktop experience and make it Apple quality then Apple are in trouble. The technology is all there since the days of Ubuntu Touch.

Sadly I don't think there is a company in a position to build such a device that could compete.

Looking back now it was quite ahead of its time.

Actually kindof awesome! ...but when I saw the phone call at the end my mind immediately went back to "Taco-Talkin' w/ the Nokia N-Gage"! => https://sidetalkin.com/original/

The main problems from that Duo was that Microsoft didn't believe in it.

This lead them to use a garbage CPU and support it for something like 2 years.

Apple has the balls to keep updating the vision pro even after it flopped and it will probably get 7 years.

The fedex driver that delivers to my office is still maining one of these. Its so cool.

Zune'd

August 12, 2020

Still use mine!

I will say it was a pain in the ass to open and answer calls though when you were busy doing things.

I wish that too. Too many convenience features on both sides that are accidentally or intentionally not making it over, even when they would apply to both. I wish it had to be an explicit decision to lock functionality to only iPad or iPhone, rather than it having to be an explicit decision to make functionality available to both. Make the more likely decision the default.

> What's up with all the negativity?

It's the horrible form factor.

I listed the 3 ways to make a folding phone (with examples) in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49636355

If they had chose either of the other two folding formats, and reduced the amount of screen they cut off in the corners, they probably would have had gold on their hands and shifted the market towards foldables.

Instead, they chose the bad one.

I have an 11 Pro iPhone, which I’ve had since 2019 now may be the time to upgrade.

Are you new to HN? There is literally nothing that the users on this site won't bitch and moan about.

This is what it comes down to for me as well. If Apple has somehow magically solved the reliability issues this will be fantastic, if they are just fad chasing it'll be DOA

I'm right-handed but I always keep my phone in my left pocket and use it with my left hand (keys have always been in my right pocket). I'm also pretty curious about the answer to this.

I think the idea is the outside screen would be propped up, not on the ground. Though I do wonder if the outside-screen-down orientation is supported.

> Is the outside screen REALLY that strong

iPhone 17 pro glass is insanely strong

current iphone would have no issue with this as long as you dont apply pressure.

That impressed me too. Be if those “Apple touches” of yore. I kind of wonder how well it works in person, but it’s nice that it’s there at all.

> is this going to be another Vision Pro?

100%

The market for a phone like this is extremely small and the price makes it even smaller.

I think you’re out of luck. If Apple can’t sell the mini I don’t know who will enter the market.

Yea, I'm in this boat. My 13 mini has been dropped a couple of times. The screen is still functional, but it's on its last legs.

I spent a few hours researching the other night on what replacement phone I'd buy, and.... the answer was a refurbished 13 mini.

Have you looked at the new Motorola Razrs? They're great. 4" external display that is easy to use one-handed and can run any Android app (though some apps and websites struggle with a screen that small), and it unfolds into a phablet for when you want a huge display.

I believe Samsung has a new one with a similar form factor too, though I haven't looked into it.

Light is making a flip phone [1], and it's somewhat hackable now that they release an SDK [2]

[1]: https://www.thelightphone.com/shop/products/light-flip

[2]: https://developers.thelightphone.com

I totally accept that I'm the minority.

When I was 12-13 I started taking a steroidal inhaler which inhibited my growth, so my hands are literally the same size as when I was 13. (maybe slightly wider).

As such I have about the same finger length as the average woman, and when I used the iPhone 4S and 5S I had no problems, I was not able to comfortably use the 6 with one hand, and it came with that ugly camera bump, so I returned it and tried to go Samsung. (it was big, but the rounded edges helped a fair bit) - the software sucked.

I bit the bullet and went back to my 5S, and when the SE (2nd gen - shaped like the iPhone 5 but with beefed internals) rolled out it was a day 1 purchase for me.

Ever since then I've been looking for a phone -- the iPhone "Mini" was as large as the 6 which was too large (I did buy one though) -- I eventually bought an iPhone 15 pro, but honestly, I hate it. It is the heaviest thing I carry daily and it doesn't do anything more than my 5 did that i care about, and I can't comfortably operate it. I start really disliking mobile devices because of it- and the software is getting worse year on year too.

I'm getting serious fatigue from this, but the world has not only caught up to a mobile world, now many things actively expect/require you to have a modern smart phone, especially in Sweden.

I suspect you might be interested in this crowdfunded project - https://smallandroidphone.com/

there is not demand. sales prove this. there is no amount of antidotal evidence you can offer: small phones don't sell.

same. my current SE 3 is starting to limp battery-wise and I'm about to switch to my backup one. Hoping they come to their senses before it wears out.

I remember Ubuntu were going for that “dock it and it’s a full computer” idea about 10 years back with their failed phone OS project.

just buy this phone and don't open it up

While I won't pay it, it seems pretty comparable to other flagship foldable from Google and Samsung.

> $1999 is ridiculous.

Plenty of people on HN earn that much money in a single day after tax.

We'll have to see but it has a titanium frame with Ceramic shield front and back.

Obviously Apple knew where other foldable phones fell short; they clearly planned to overcome those shortcomings.

The retail price of the equivalent Samsung phone is $1900 (1899) - or $2100 for their 'Ultra' phone. Seems just in line to me.

I think there were rumors going even higher since Apple is so often a premium priced product.

Matching their top competitor in price is a good look.

They could’ve absolutely floored everyone if it had been $1500, but there’s no way that’s possible, at least having margins anywhere near what Apple likes.

My first thought is what happens when I drop a $1999 device and break it.

> Apple is rarely first to market, but they definitely produce the device that indicates the point where there is a market.

There's been a proven market for years already, but it's been less obvious in Western markets. In East Asian markets, foldables have had a very sizable market presence, especially in China.

There's other trends that are less obvious to US and western markets, such as phone crossbody straps (which are also very big in East Asia).

This comic from 14 years ago remains evergreen https://hijinksensue.com/comic/surface-tension/

Samsung had 7 generations of the wrong way, then one of the right way after they learned what Apple was doing. Microsoft literally does not have a product like this.

I think it will be like Apple Vision, a device that is more for developers than end user.

$2000 for an iphone, just insane.

I actually disagree, I think this will be a massive hit.

I've long thought that the aspect ratio of a normal phone just feels old fashioned now and sucks for most tasks. So many times I go to do something on my phone and reach for my laptop instead because I know it'll be easier. But with this I could do most things on it.

Very cool, but yes, the form factor, which is the most crucial point, seems off.

10% wider than a pro max. I can't imagine that's going to feel good in your pocket

100% agree. The market for this will be miniscule. Look at how small the market for the iPad mini is. This will be even worse because it's 3x the price and has to be carried as a main device. How many people are wearing pants that can even physically fit this? This device is almost certainly too big to be comfortable in your front pocket. And if you are wearing something like athletic pants it's going to be so heavy it will pull your pants down... It's just impractical.

It's a bit disappointing that it's 50g heavier than the Z Fold 8, and similar to the Pixel 9 Pro fold in weight and thickness, at 254 g / 5.2 mm / 11.3 mm.

In the FAQ it says "Yes. iPhone Duo will work with Apple Pencil (USB-C). Coming later this year."

It kinda sounds like it's a new model of the Apple Pencil coming soon (rather than support coming soon), and older Pencil and Pencil Pros will not work at all. Which, if true, boo.

I never trust the later with Apple. Too often have they failed to deliver. Why release this without the obvious benefit?

I had such high hopes for this phone, but now I know it won’t replace my 13 Mini. It looks so wide you can barely hold it comfortably, let alone use it one-handed — and that's the whole point of a small phone for me.

JerryRigEverything will deploy his hardness pick test in short order I'm sure.

All existing iPhones:

https://www.macworld.com/article/3229342/iphone-price-increa...

Screen size would have always been big, absent production costs and marketing price. Over time display tech just got better and cheaper to finally do it.

I would think it has far more to do with content consumption than it does eyesight.

It's uglier than the z fold 8 imo. Idk why manufactures even bother with the corner curve. It look imbalance.

A smaller closed size than current phones would be the main appeal for me. Phone bloat has gotten out of hand.

iPhone Duo 2 with working dual FaceID cameras will be a headline feature for sure.

It's made for viewing 70mm IMAX /s

There are some amusing apps which read the MacBook's lid angle sensor. I remember one of them played a creaking noise through the speakers when you open or close it... Somehow I doubt App Store review will let that in for the Duo, but we can always hope.

I know the early ones were really bad. My impression is I’ve stopped hearing about them failing all the time, so I assume they’ve gotten decent.

Hard agree but only because I think TouchID on the sleep/wake button sucks. The home button-less design and gestures introduced on the iPhone X were obviously designed in tandem and only work with FaceID. I have Touch ID disabled on all of my devices that have it because it's so damn annoying now.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they mentioned both Face ID and Touch ID in the stream. They wanted to add Touch ID because of the various angles people might use the phones with. Also mentioned that it'll unlock with your Apple Watch, like the Mac does right now.

I _much_ prefer Touch ID. Always hated Face ID.

They need to just do both, honestly, whenever possible. Both methods have legions of fans and detractors.

I am happy that I will have managed to completely skip the requirement to use FaceID.

prob tech and UX issue. FaceID can't do side ways, and people opens side ways half the time. Maybe there are also functions unlockable wihtout clamshell opening. can't put 5 faceID on each side and facing every which way.

> Folding screens have been a solution in search of problem for like a decade now

The problem is I want to have small phone that can be expanded to have large screen when needed, glad I’ve solved this decade long conundrum!

I like folding phones that go from half to full size. Fits in my pocket and I still get a big screen when I want.

How do you know? Have you seen a Duo?

I've been rocking out a Casio F-91W (Retails new for $23) for about 3 months now - And all the annoyance I had with with my Apple Watch Ultra (16 hour battery, constant annoyance to upgrade, endless and useless notifications) - is gone. The CR2016 battery last 5+ YEARS , replacements are < $2. Watch has everything I ever cared about - Date, Time, Alarms, Light, Stopwatch, water resistance.

And, I don't think I've once missed having the big annoying clunker of a watch.

I just got one of these (https://aiphor.com/products/bluefox-nx1-4-0-android-smartpho...) that I'm hoping to try and make my weekend phone. It's a small Android phone. It runs WhatsApp / Google Maps. I am going to set it up to forward my calls to it on the weekends. It just arrived, so I'm excited to try it out.

12 years, not 15, but there are currently BlackBerry Classic shipping with modern internals. I love mine, though I've flashed LineageOS for Android 16

https://zinwa.com/

Just put your iWatch (with LTE) into a 3D printed case; that gets you most of the way there minus battery life.

What I'd love to see is a modern Sidekick. The form factor was basically perfect.

Well there are options. https://commodore.net/callback/

Commodore Callback, maybe?

There are plenty Symbian phones around on 2nd hand shops.

Have you considered an Apple Watch Ultra? That way you can send/receive messages, calls, do maps and directions, listen to music, etc. but you can't mindlessly scroll media.

honestly an apple watch + airpods is basically that.

Yes, with a much bigger screen I can definitely see this making me more productive and it is in between an iPad that getting through even minimal productivity tasks would work and bigger screens help a lot. Even though $1999 only gives you 256GB at least you get that low of a price point. Would have to see it in person though especially about the crease and the camera(s). (EDIT) I have a Clicks power keyboard which I can use with this. Seems like I should clarify that I can use this where a regular laptop can't be used. And since more people are interested in what I can use email, calendar and codex / Claude code (in fact Claude codr is why I have the clicks power keyboard)

I was hoping I didn't. But after watching the event, I kinda do.

I have to hand it to them, they added some really nice touches to the OS for the new form factor. Seems almost like the best of an iPhone and a iPad Mini.

Still not sure I want something that bulky, and maybe I'll wait a few months to see the reviews and how the hinge and screen fold hold up. But tempted for sure...

I'm the sort of person to absentmindedly flex a metal fork enough times it snaps, so it's definitely not for me.

Probably, but do enough people want it? The iPhone SE and the mini was discontinued do to "poor" sales, meaning poor for an iPhone. I'm interested to see if Apple will stop selling the Duo if it only sells at the same rate as the SE.

I don't know who this is for and can't figure out what problem this solves. It's cool, but it's not $2800 cool (yes, it's $800 more expensive in some markets). For that price is has to do more than fold in half, maybe fold into a swan of something.

They just have to make it appealing enough, a loooot of people buy ipads because they're cool and they project themselves into all these fancy advertised situations, 90% of the time it ends up gathering dust or being used 15 min on a sunday morning while you're too lazy to get out of bed.

Yea. If there is one thing I learned over the years is that people always prefer a bigger screen, as long as it is still reasonable to hold.

This is especially true in the younger generation where many of them don’t own a computer. They do everything on their phones or iPads.

Are you suggesting Apple made a foldable phone without doing any market research on demand?

I can't think of an application outside of travel or long commutes on a train where I would use this. For a daily driver its too big to fit into a pants pocket and the price tag is TGH.

Yes I'm quite interested in a foldable from Apple. Have been since I got an 7" Acer Android tablet ~13 years ago and was annoyed at the necessity of carrying 2 devices.

No, for that money I can buy an iPhone and an iPad. Just checked, iPhone 17 256gb plus an iPad 13inch 256gb is about 100 euros cheaper than the cheapest iPhone duo.

A lot of people own Samsung foldable phones? They’re especially popular in China and South Korea

Are you offering?

I'm just reaching the age where I need reading glasses late in the day, and so in a couple years when I'm out of school and employed again, this is starting to look like the best option in the Kindle / Tablet space: it isn't just a flat pane of glass and it's no bigger than a Nintendo DS, so it will fit on my crowded surfaces and in my purse.

Do I want it? Ehhhh. I hate heavy objects. I stopped buying the Pro line because the weight just kept increasing. So I will probably not particularly enjoy that mass of batteries dragging on the purse strap. But I enjoy reading glasses less and I just don't want an unwieldy bigscreen that I can't hold easily like the iPhone Air.

I definitely didn't want one 30 minutes ago, but now that I've seen it the idea of a phone that can be smaller in the pocket but unfold to give a large screen is pretty darn appealing. Appealing enough to pay 50% more for it? Eh... probably not.

I do.

It’s not if anyone wants it or not. There’s always some melon who does. It’s more will they sell enough to break even on it.

Evasive? They literally discussed the layers of materials, with the outer being a polymer.

They went in pretty extensive detail for the internal parts of the folding screen?

They talked for several minutes on the materials and engineering that went into the screen and how it wasn't "the same plastic all the other folding phones are made of"

Modern foldables use ultra-thin glass (UTG). There’s a factory-installed screen protector layer on top which can make it feel plasticy.

I would love that too. Dual-sided screen, 6mm thick.

i'll be waiting right alongside. when i fold the phone i want it to be very small and preferably thin as possible. when i have the phone to my ear during a call i want it to be light as possible too. this is what lead me to get an early rehash of the razr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Razr_(2020) but even that phone requires hand repositioning to reach the top of the screen when open. the 'chin' part allows it to be thinner but alas i wish it were thinner still, especially folded in a pocket. 6 years of use and i dont want a bigger phone, i want a smaller foldable but the product lines are doing the opposite!

i hope apple give a duo mini a serious try. apple, the market segment might be smaller but like a restaurant that includes special dietary needs for one person, that brings the whole family along for dinner!

It doesn't come out until October. There won't be anything to review until then.

That's not true, the journalists are hands on with it right now.

Here's a live stream of the popular obnoxious streamer, he held it a few minutes ago (also talked with MKBHD).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPAtEmHAio

iOS runs plenty of productivity software, many which run great on larger screen devices like this or iPads. What does "productivity" mean to you? Or is it just terminals and coding?

Slightly better for documents and spreadsheets? Although I have a laptop for those, so... I guess I'm not the target audience.

Most people aren’t doing productivity. They’re watching videos and playing games. This would mean I don’t need my iPad on flights or when travelling. And when I’m travelling I don’t need to be doing productive things.

Always loved the Surface Duo. I really liked the separation of the screens too; felt like dual monitors vs. ultrawide. It also forced the technology to focus the valueprop on multitasking versus more immersive/more bigger/more better. I'm curious about the iPhonr Duo; I have not been a huge fan of iPadOS or iOS, the former making me often wish for a macOS experience and the later having felt slower and less responsive over time (mostly due to animation speeds/aesthetic choices rather than a hardware defect).

They made a better version of a Microsoft product, this seems like par for the course.

It’s in the article: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2026/09/apple-unveils-...

They had two. One it appears to snap on magnetically, I think the other might have had too small hinges on it, but I didn’t look very hard, and it wasn’t on screen long.

Agreed. Disturbing.

If I had a choice of only Touch ID or Face ID, but not both, I would take Touch ID every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Doesn’t almost everyone finance their phone anyway? You pay a carrier x a month and get a phone and service for a few years. Maybe they’ll push the plan out from 2 years standard to 3 so it’s just as affordable for people?

A first gen product like this is for early adopters and wealthy individuals who status seek

From a mechanical perspective, a screen around the outside would create a wrinkle rather than a crease when opened, and that wrinkle would be substantial. The phone would need some sliding/rolling mechanism to pull the screen flat. Possibly doable, but finicky and fragile. Especially considering elements like cameras, touch ID, etc.

From an experience perspective, I imagine it's just more satisfying to open it like a book. A screen on the outside would mean the inside is almost empty, just utilities like camera lenses.

That design was explored years ago with earlier foldables. The market consolidated on the two screen design pretty early.

not entirely sure why, but i’d guess there were durability concerns with the screen wrapping around the edge. might have also felt weird to hold. potentially the crease would be worse in unfolded mode as well.

My guess is the reason is, "how much screen would a user be willing to lose to the rear cameras?"

They are addicted to teleprompters. Steve Jobs didn't use them.

It's a shame there isn't the kind of competition in the US when it comes to mobile phones as there is in China. Many HN users would likely never buy a Chinese OEM device, but if you look at the variety of devices offered by Chinese brands, they're trying all sorts of approaches. Kind of like their EV market. Meanwhile, your choices in the US are Apple, Samsung, Motorola, Google, and that's pretty much it. I wouldn't say there's a ton of innovation between them...kind of like the large US automakers.

Depends on if it starts to get a crease after using it a while. I tend to assume that this is why Apple chose not to adopt folding screens as quickly as Android phones did.

I mean that is the business. These companies are in the business of ordering parts from components vendors and leasing floor space to assemble them after all. Folding screen is probably something you can order from many companies in shenzen at scale right now (or whichever chinese city is the "cell phone screen" hub, might not be shenzen).

Just like the first iPod and iPhone.

It's about finding best matching hinges and phone frames.

Yes I thought that was weird and forced.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mkr94zm/a/iphone-duo-case...

https://www.spigen.com/collections/iphone-duo-cases