madrox
3 hours ago
I think it funny how much average engineers are beginning to discover the challenges of engineering leadership and program management. This has always been the bottleneck.
It's why managers and PMs want to be in standup. It's why slack exists and engineers are constantly being poked on it. It's why execs always talk about not getting too far away from the work. It's how seagull management happens. It's why program management is a job.
All those behaviors engineers hated about their bosses that kept them away from being focused on the code...they're starting to feel what it's like on the other side and reinventing the solutions instead of just reading a book about engineering management. Maybe we'll rebrand program management to "understanding ops" or something.
I wonder what AI would say about us if given the tokens to complain.
361994752
an hour ago
I’ve worked on both sides, so I know they’re actually very different.
As a manager, the first thing you do is get to know your people. Some of them will be very strong and trustworthy. You give them the hardest work, and you ask them the least. That’s how you scale your team’s scope without getting overburdened. And that’s why teams have key people.
But when you work with LLMs, you still need to understand most of the ideas yourself if it’s a serious product. Because in the end, it means nothing to “trust” an agent. You’re the one responsible for what you and the LLM ship.
bmurphy1976
16 minutes ago
This doesn't change the fact that those soft skills are necessary to use LLMs effectively. You need a mixture of hard and soft skills.
Engineers who have avoided learning the soft skills are going to have a harder time adjusting.
losteric
an hour ago
> I think it funny how much average engineers are beginning to discover the challenges of engineering leadership and program management. This has always been the bottleneck.
It is somewhat new for most ICs to need this skillset, as opposed to tech leads/staff folks. What books would you suggest for this new reality?
johnfn
an hour ago
I remember when I raised this point like a year or two ago -- in response to someone saying that coding AI made all their work trivial I said something like "if you have multiple agents the work changes and becomes more managerial - don't you think that managers contribute value" and I got a bunch of downvotes and all the responses were like "no manager has ever contributed value." Ahh, good times.
hirvi74
an hour ago
> It's why managers and PMs want to be in standup.
While I agree at face value, I also believe a lot of managers and PMs do not have enough work to justify 40 or more hours of work a week, so attending standup, meetings, etc. is performative attempt at self-preservation.
Of course, there are many managers and PMs that are leading death marches, so I know it's highly workplace dependent.
sharts
19 minutes ago
The best managers make it such that underlings don’t need to go to BS meetings and keep others from interrupting you with inane nonsense.
calvinmorrison
3 hours ago
cant wait till the AI starts saying "dont ask me". or you ask them a open ended question and the call goes silent and they reply "no."
notnaut
2 hours ago
That would be a massive improvement. “I don’t know, maybe these other smarter more expensive models with more recent training data might… here are some questions you could ask them:…”
kazinator
2 hours ago
Simply those first three words out of an LLM would be a massive improvement: "I don't know". "I am not sure". "My confidence in the following answer is low due to a lack of reliable information in my training and online sources ..."
epistasis
an hour ago
Until an AI does that, it won't be able to pass a Turing test.
intrasight
12 minutes ago
So many people I know believe that AI has already passed the Turing test. What's weird is that a lot of them are managers and should understand that never getting an "I don't know" means something ain't right.
ls-a
an hour ago
I've worked with many engineers who used this knowledge gap to lie and manipulate whether its an engineer lying to their PM or a cto lying to their non tech cofounder. Atleast if you ask AI for a description it won't lie intentionally, unless it was trained on an engineer and picked up the pattern. I do blame the victims though for not being able to detect a lier or act on it once they do
8note
39 minutes ago
depends on whats in the text of the code. the llm wont lie, but it also wont tell the truth
ls-a
an hour ago
All this pushback against AI is starting to look like a corrupt engineer no longer being able to lie about what they're doing. It happens in every corrupt group pushing against new tech or change