vunderba
4 hours ago
Anyone who still needs to run Windows 10 for whatever reason should switch over to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) which will continue to receive security updates up through 2032.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/rel...
giancarlostoro
3 hours ago
Linux is free and less wasteful on resources on the other hand.
vunderba
3 hours ago
It is, and if you can switch, it’s highly recommended. I have some pretty bespoke old RS-232 Windows software that was an absolute disaster to get working under Debian with Wine a few years back, so I (and others) might still need to keep a copy of Windows around.
AyanamiKaine
6 minutes ago
Unironically, I had the most success with old windows programs not when using wine directly but using proton with steam. I personally use umu[1] to use proton without directly needing to run steam. I wrote a small KDE script for .exe files so I can just double click them and they run lol. Or for setups I can right click them and just install them as a setup and it automatically creates a app shortcut I can open.
ihalip
2 hours ago
Might want to try again, Wine progressed a lot in the past couple years.
x______________
8 minutes ago
> Might want to try again, Wine progressed a lot in the past couple years.
You could even go as far as suggesting SteamOS once they release the OS to more devices. Gaming themed sure but it's a flavor of Arch and you have full control over what gets installed.
thangalin
2 hours ago
It works well, though its messages could use some TLC:
libEGL warning: pci id for fd 31: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
pci id for fd 33: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
pci id for fd 34: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
libEGL warning: egl: failed to create dri2 screen
libEGL warning: pci id for fd 31: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
pci id for fd 33: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
pci id for fd 34: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
libEGL warning: egl: failed to create dri2 screen
libEGL warning: pci id for fd 31: 10de:1ff0, driver (null)
0124:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000034, 0313F66C, 0313F6DC 0313F674
0124:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x34 0x1009 0313F66C 0313F6DC 0313F674) returning a dummy value (current locale)
0124:fixme:heap:RtlSetHeapInformation HEAP_INFORMATION_CLASS 1 not implemented!
0124:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000034, 0313F9D4, 0313FA44 0313F9DC
0124:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x34 0x1009 0313F9D4 0313FA44 0313F9DC) returning a dummy value (current locale)
0124:fixme:shell:InitNetworkAddressControl stub
0124:fixme:richedit:editor_handle_message EM_GETLANGOPTIONS: stub
0124:fixme:richedit:editor_handle_message EM_SETLANGOPTIONS: stub
0124:fixme:ntdll:NtQuerySystemInformation info_class SYSTEM_PERFORMANCE_INFORMATION
0124:fixme:win:RegisterTouchWindow hwnd 000100E0, flags 0 stub!
0124:fixme:msvcrt:__clean_type_info_names_internal (7853A300) stub
0124:fixme:msvcrt:__clean_type_info_names_internal (7B4F6BE4) stub
0124:fixme:msvcrt:__clean_type_info_names_internal (79410E54) stubdokyun
an hour ago
wine whatever.exe 2>/dev/null
hypfer
25 minutes ago
At this point, you might want to consider throwing an LLM at it and just letting it reimplement the thing so that it runs on linux.
They can actually do that. They may not like it, but they can.
sharts
2 hours ago
VMs were not an option?
f-az
2 hours ago
Can’t wait till Fable 6 can just decompile and reimplement old software like that.
Filligree
2 hours ago
Great for the americans. What are the rest of us going to do?
lukan
2 hours ago
Use the distilled chinese models.
SirMaster
2 hours ago
Maybe get your governments and citizens to innovate and create their own instead of relying so heavily on other countries. I thought that's the direction other countries were trying to go.
farnsworthfusor
2 hours ago
Try Opus 4.8? It's just a language translation task. LLMs should be good at it.
detritus
2 hours ago
Out of interest, what value do you think that a comment like that has, in a forum such as this? You're not likely to be informing people with information they're not already abundantly aware of.
Whereas the person you're responding to is adding value, for me at least. I am in what might be an edge-case position where I need to run software specific to Windows and, much more importantly run hardware that uses drivers which seemingly don't work on Windows 11 (I only learnt recently, whilst planning to finally 'upgrade').
I couldn't even begin to do what I do, ably and competently at least, in a Linux environment.
And I've had at least one laptop for general use running some flavour of Linux for about 16 years now.
giancarlostoro
an hour ago
Maybe not you, but many times I am asked what my setup looks like, because I game on Linux which is not as problematic as it used to be in the 2000s.
kazinator
2 hours ago
Unless it's some Microsoft version of Linux, of course, in which every keystroke you type performs a docker run ... or whatever.
noxer
2 hours ago
This is bad advice that is being repeated over and over by the so called tech influencers. You go to an older version that only got security updates so you will lack optimizations and features already in the current stable windows 10. And for the foreseeable future you gain nothing at all. If one day the normal version acctually stops reviving security updates, it almost certainly will be possible to switch the update channel to LTSC and get the LTSC updates that way but for now this is not needed and the switch is unnecessary Also without some trickery, switching to LTSC requires a complete reinstallation, which for most people likely wasting sever hours.
jamesnorden
an hour ago
> so you will lack optimizations and features already in the current stable windows 10
Windows gets worse with each update, so this is actually a plus.
noxer
an hour ago
There are no update, windows 10 is EOL since months and even before that it did not receive any real updates in a long time. The current version is stable and gets only security updates just like LTSC. There is no point to switch, at best its a waste of time and worst you could run into issues with software that expects home/pro and not LTSC.
Grombobulous
an hour ago
Very untrue for gaming in particular.
For example, if you have an OLED or mini-LED monitor, you really don’t want to be on Windows 10 and miss out on HDR.
And sure, you can say “well nobody has an OLED monitor,” but I’d remind everyone that OLED displays have been pretty much standard on every gaming laptop mid-range and higher for a decent amount of time now.
A lot of the focus for Windows 11 development has been gaming performance and feature improvements. Game developers are also less and less likely over time to bother testing with Windows 10.
hypfer
30 minutes ago
Most people are in fact not gamers. Like.. at all. And even those that are probably don't own an OLED or mini-LED monitor.
Most people just want a computer that does the word, the chrome and that's about it.
Ferret7446
a minute ago
Non gamers who need a PC (most people are mobile only now) can probably use Linux at this point.
Grombobulous
23 minutes ago
There are over 900 million PC gamers in the world.
PCs have 43% marketshare in the total game console market. Yes, that includes marketshare against the Nintendo Switch.
There’s a bit of a bubble of non-gaming in this forum, but gaming is definitely a top use case for PCs.
Just walk into your local Best Buy in the laptop section and count up how many of the laptops are marketed as gaming systems. That should give you a rough idea of how many systems are purchased with gaming as the primary intent.
Sure, HDR is a niche at this point in time, but technologies like OLED and mini LED are increasingly common. If you buy a gaming laptop in 2026 at most reasonable price points it’s very likely to have an OLED monitor.
Example: Legion 5a Gen 11 AMD, price on Lenovo’s site is $1500, has an OLED monitor. You can buy OLED gaming monitors below $500 nowadays, so a lot of people upgrading have that as their next upgrade path…if not today, then tomorrow.
On that subject, most people just use the copy of Windows that comes with the computer, so the whole debate about Windows 10 is perhaps not worth having in the first place. Microsoft most likely just misjudged the pace of hardware replacement especially in the AI era where computer sales have slowed.
hypfer
21 minutes ago
Yes and how many of those people have the cash for cutting edge tech?
And how much does that cutting edge tech truly matter for the core game experience. I think the steam hardware survey might have some answers there and can tell us for which level of hardware currently developed games are being optimized for.
And that's just the currently developed ones. Not the massive backlog that existed before OLED or microLED HDR screens.
Tiny group. Tiny.
___
Btw, super lame to try to improve your argument after the fact with edits, but, well. Anyway.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
Grombobulous
14 minutes ago
Certainly, I agree that most gamers do not have cutting edge tech.
The cutting edge tech does improve the core experience. Quite a lot. You do have to have the money for it, though, and like anything else, diminishing returns on investment.
Steam hardware survey shows Windows 11 gained 2% this month over Windows 10. That’s a significant rate of change.
I recognize that you don’t like my use of edits, however, they are part of this platform and I’m not using them to diss anyone or engage in any kind of negative conversation. Just trying to make my point and support it.
Marsymars
41 minutes ago
I wouldn't suggest an old LTSC version, but in a relatively recent update MS stopped allowing non-LTSC versions to not populate the start menu with ms store ads when your search locally. For me, that was the final straw - I switched to the latest Win11 LTSC after that, and it's a decidedly better user experience without the cruft I didn't need or want.
ssl-3
an hour ago
We had a PC that came properly-licensed with that edition of Windows (with the matching sticker and everything), and it didn't work out as a desktop machine for the intended user. It's been a year or two and some details are lost, but IIRC there were issues with some Intuit program or other.
It was probably something that could have been worked around, but workarounds tend to pile up and become difficult to track. I avoided the problem by putting a more-pedestrian version of Windows 10 on it instead.
noxer
an hour ago
Some "bad" coded programs have hard-coded version check and check for the OS name instead of build number, if they forgot LTSC (and server and education) the software will refuse to run on these version. Some reg edits can fix this but its a pointless hassle, there is no need to use LTSC today there are no more annoying updates and unwanted features being added. I have a windows 10 pro machine here running since 3 month 24/7.
ericpp
2 hours ago
You can continue using normal Windows 10 if you have a Microsoft account attached to it. They give you the option to sign up for free extended updates (until 2027).
bee_rider
an hour ago
Eh, I’m just going to keep using Windows 10 without the account. I’m sure as an ethical company Microsoft will at least distribute patches for any security issues that were present on the day I bought the OS, especially because they are still developing the patches.
jacobgkau
2 hours ago
...which is exactly what the featured article is about. But 2032 > 2027, so I have to assume the person you replied to already knew that and was providing additional advice.
SirMaster
2 hours ago
But they might keep extending it...
antisthenes
2 hours ago
They have to update the IOT version anyway, so might as well get some money off of regular users anyway by "extending" it.
nok22kon
2 hours ago
except they are extending it now for free
beagle3
an hour ago
My guess would be because too many users held out with Win10, are not really a potential income stream, and MS would rather keep them MS customers than Linux or Mac (their next machine might be a Neo rather than Win11 these days).
The cost to Microsoft is essentially zero if they ate already committed to these security updates (and they are, at least for the LTSC branch and some government contracts)
ptx
2 hours ago
Well, not just anyone can buy a license for it. You need some sort of enterprise volume license agreement, as far as I can tell.
thunfischbrot
2 hours ago
Within EU, you could buy licenses from one of the legal license resell markets. For everyone outside of reach of the law, there‘s massgravel.
causality0
2 hours ago
If you're considering switching to Win 10 IoT you're probably not in the "people who pay for Windows" category.
LeFantome
4 hours ago
Current trends indicate that regular Windows 10 may as well.
osti
3 hours ago
Does that support modern gaming?
badocr
3 hours ago
It does support "modern gaming" yes, but like the sibling comment mentions, at least Riot's anti-cheat demands Windows 10 22H2 (the last iteration of Win10) as a minimum. There are a few somewhat convoluted workarounds floating around that people use. Also Adobe CS seems to require Win10 22H2.
giancarlostoro
3 hours ago
There used to be a website something like "windowsserver2008gaming.com" or something like that idr the specific domain, that was literally a guide to turn old windows server OS installs into gaming computers. The golden years.
vunderba
3 hours ago
My only caveat is that I’m not sure how it handles multiplayer games that require anti-cheat or DRM-style mechanisms, but it’s been flawless with every title I’ve thrown at it so far (BG3, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cyberpunk, Ori, etc)
tencentshill
an hour ago
Most DRM-laden software requires 22H2 minimum. So no Xbox game pass at least.
Grombobulous
2 hours ago
If you mean “modern” as in technologies like HDR, no.
eska
3 hours ago
Even Riot’s rootkit “Vanguard” has reduced requirements for Windows 10.
kgwxd
3 hours ago
"modern gaming" being a euphemism for "more proprietary software that has chained us to even worse proprietary software for decades".
Grombobulous
2 hours ago
I don’t feel particularly chained to proprietary software just by playing games. I play all of them on Linux using open source software.
Yes, the games themselves are proprietary, but that’s because they’re primarily art pieces, and proprietary licenses makes some logical sense in that case.
mhurron
2 hours ago
It's actually a question relating to what some people want to do with their computer. Most people don't run an OS because of some moral objection to other OS's but because it lets them do what they want with their device.
everyone
4 hours ago
Also MS go to great lengths to make the secret good version of Windows (It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Mint) very difficult to buy. So just torrent it. It's bad enough running Windows let alone giving money to MS.
shevy-java
3 hours ago
> It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Min
I am not necessarily a Microsoft hater per se, but to insinuate that Linux is on the same level as the Microsoft operating system is really strange to me. Whenever I, for instance, have to copy files to windows, I am getting annoyed at how slow it is compared to Linux. And that's just one issue I have. Another one is how slow e. g. ruby is on windows, compared to linux. The windows operating system is simply not good. Linux also has issues, in particular the main GUIs (both qt and gtk suck).
nly
3 hours ago
And good god...windows 11 updates still take fucking hours and still require multiple reboots. How this is still so painful after 2 decades is beyond me
destinator
25 minutes ago
The update system is such a mess that I now dread booting into Windows. I have been in multiple situations where an update has required a reboot - but my boot manager defaults to Linux - so whatever update process was supposed to happen on reboot doesn't happen, which means that the next time I boot into Windows I am either A) waiting for an update to complete (which is so fucking slow) AND/OR B)The update runs and fails because I have taken too long between booting into Windows and for whatever reason it has to roll back and then RUN THE UPDATE AGAIN. I understand the fundamental need to reboot because some updates effect the kernel in such a way that the entire thing has to be reloaded. But it seems like Windows is rebooting for MOST if not EVERY update. If you are patching kernel level bugs with this frequency this far into the lifecycle of the product you have some very serious issues or more likely I am guessing that they are indiscriminately pushing "features" that nobody asked for and then they are just forcing user reboots because their bloated apps/slop are now using so much RAM and are so inefficient that the only way to "fix" the inevitable performance loss is to reboot (I am only being half snarky here).