> I think the better solution would be a two-stage handle that initially sends an electrical signal and then engages the mechanical latch if you continue pulling.

This is how Mercedes handles work, for what it's worth. A motor pushes them out or retracts them, but they're held in only with a spring, so you can always physically force them out, at which point pulling on them directly pulls on the release lever.

I was in a tesla for the first time ever about a month ago, for an uber ride. When I tried to exit that is the first thing that went through my mind -- how the hell could I figure out how to open the door in an emergency situation.

The original Tesla Model S had exactly this. The window-partial-retract happened as you pulled the handle. It was plenty fast, and I doubt it was even that critical to the longevity of the door — getting the window in the right position when closing always seemed more important to me.

I've got a fancy new car with fancy door handles. Overall, eh. But at least mine are intuitive on the inside ish; you can push yje handle to open (when the car thinks it's safe), or you can pull twice. You have to be told you can push to open, but pull twice happens pretty easily. I don't yet know how the fail safe open works on the outside, grab and pull (pressing the button with the grab) seems to work intuitively enough for people though.

>I think the better solution would be a two-stage handle that initially sends an electrical signal and then engages the mechanical latch if you continue pulling.

I'm pretty sure my 2009 Prius has this feature; it will unlock the doors when I lightly touch the inside of the handle, and then pulling it will engage the door mechanism.

I was in a total crash of my model 3 in a hit a run. I was pitted from a crazy driver that was driving the wrong way and I ran into a retaining wall. I panicked trying to open the doors as there was smoke everywhere and I think the car was burning but the fog of an accident is pretty intense so I ended up breaking the window out with one of those little tipped seatbelt cutters and crawled out. That stupid override is completely useless when you're in fight or flight.

The Model S did it better where the override is just pulling the door handle all the way out.

There's no manual release on my model 3 for the rear passenger doors. Only front doors have it.

There also was Mitch Mcconnell's sister in law, shipping billionaire Angela Chao, who drunkenly drove into a pond on her property and couldn't get out of her Tesla. Interestingly, her own sister was the Head of the Department of Transportation when the model she died in was approved.

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/angela-chao-death-texas-tesl...

> “The night was chilly and very dark, with no moon, so rather than walk, Chao got in her Tesla Model X SUV for the four-minute trip back to the house.

> The account of what happened to Angela Chao that weekend is based on interviews with people close to Chao and her family, county officials who were briefed on what happened or were there, as well as reviews of law-enforcement documents.

> Within minutes of saying her goodbyes, she called one of her friends in a panic. While making a three-point turn, she had put the car in reverse instead of drive, she said. It is a mistake she had made before with the Tesla gearshift. The car had zipped backward, tipping over an embankment and into a pond. It was sinking fast. Could they help her?

> Over the next several hours, her friends, then the ranch manager and his wife, and then paramedics, and firefighters and sheriff’s deputies rushed around and tried to break the windows, find an escape hatch or any way to get Chao out of the car. Somehow an executive who made her living on the sea was drowning in a stock pond within sight of her home.”

When I was in human computer interaction class in the 90s, one self-stated German student was fixated on how German car handles have a ring shape to help with opening car doors in emergencies.

It was kind of shocking because he was just going full zealot, in a class in Oregon United States.

The attitude was really toxic to the class. The student was trying to drum up philosophical support for all or nothing thinking, as I look back. A way to kind of circumvent a more nuanced judgment, which I think the teacher intended to convey as the whole point of the class.

And the teacher did not like it at all, and she kicked him out. It was an educational moment for me, to see clashing philosophies and power all mixed in the same adult circumstance.

> Alas, “build the best car you can” wasn’t compatible with long-term viability. Something engineering-driven companies seem to keep encountering.

Is it actually incompatible with long term viability? Or does it just create an unstable state where the temptation to gut the reputation for immediate profit grows as the size of that profit grows?

> I'm usually skeptical of negative headlines about Tesla as there have been so many false positives

I'm a bit lost in that ...

"move fast and break things." - The Experts.

I've learned to take anything said by the experts with a grain of salt nowadays, mainly after seeing the large conflicts of interest in the food and drug industry. It's best to do your own research as well if you can.

That being said, there are certain institutions and experts that I've found are more trustworthy than others (The Electronic Frontier Foundation for example) so I do usually trust them over the opinions of others. Basically there is a lot of nuance, never blindly trust anything.

Regarding the topic of the Tesla door handles, I've always felt uneasy regarding the safety of them.

You would expect to be aligned with experts? Wouldn't that make you an expert, by definition?

It's particularly telling that Tesla's design flaws are so inexcusable that people have a hard time even believing they are real.

Here's another example: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC...

Yes, opening the rear door in some models requires popping an unlabeled access panel in the cargo pocket.

The craziest part to me is that this isn't the evil profit maximizing à la Unsafe at Any Speed. It's simply pure designer insanity.

Now try doing that while the car is on fire with burning children inside

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/witness-of-triple-fatal-...

That's the correct entry in the manual: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC...

> okay, looks like there is a way but it's really convoluted and you need to basically jump-start the low voltage system

So what you're actually saying is, there really isn't a (sane) way after all.

That is not something that I would personally admit to, but you do you.

Maybe the cars can come with a pre-recorded safety briefing that is played before you can set off, and a laminated card in the seat pocket. How to open the doors in an emergency, etc. Like on an airplane.

Make sure the rescue (normaly fire) department reads it too.

It wasn't even about those things. It was about having cool electronic door handles like a spaceship. If it was about those things that would imply a level of intentionality in the design that goes beyond whatever happened here.

I hope everyone bans them, too many are copying them and its a major turnoff.

I'm glad there's some rational, reasonable people left on Hacker News

> this is just one man's ego.

Since you're attributing the design of all Tesla features to Musk, would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 being reported as the "safest new car on the market," acheiving an overall EuroNCAP score of 359/400?

https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n...

... or would that go against the narrative?

FWIW, and for balance - I think the retracting handle design on the Model S is dangerous. I own the car and it's a nagging concern in my mind.

>It gives me chills to imagine the consequences of this for my family in an accident.

So.. get another car. Safety first.

I was in a car accident age 12. Both doors on the driver's side were blocked by another vehicle, which was on fire, so my dad had to climb awkwardly through the passenger side.

My door in the back was blocked, but my brother wasn't able to open his, as it was damaged. I had to kick it while pulling the handle.

Good luck doing that in a Tesla.

You acknowledge the life-threatening danger of the cars and you still proclaim yourself as a fanboy and you're keeping the car...

"Cognitive dissonance" and "cult behavior" is what comes to my mind when I read this.