VyseofArcadia
4 days ago
This article ignores the fact that aside from being barred with manufacturing unlicensed NES games, Atari also failed to compete with any of its subsequent consoles after the VCS (although it did have some success with its PCs). The consoles were all flawed in some way. They were underpowered, didn't offer much over the previous iteration, or simply didn't have a strong enough library of games to compete. Atari was famously slow to realize that maybe people want more out of a game console than home ports of decade-old arcade games. On top of that, their original games that weren't home ports were mostly lackluster or were just outside of what gamers of the time were demanding.
Hard to say that Nintendo putting the kibosh on one arm of Atari's business "bled them to death" when all their other arms were bleeding from self-inflicted wounds.
EDIT: As pointed out below, I have mixed up Atari Corporation and Atari Games, so not all my criticism stands. Atari Games, publishing as Tengen, still largely put out ports of arcade games, but they were at least contemporary arcade games.
ndiddy
4 days ago
You seem to be confused (which is fair, this is a little confusing). In 1984, Warner Communications sold Atari's home and computer game division to Jack Tramiel, which became Atari Corporation. Atari Corporation was the company that made all the future Atari consoles (7800, Jaguar, etc) and computers (ST line). Atari Games, Atari's arcade game division, remained with Warner. This article is entirely about Atari Games, who had nothing to do with anything sold for the home market with the Atari name. They were entirely separate companies. The reason why they did business as Tengen was that as part of the split, Atari Games wasn't allowed to sell games to the home market using the Atari name.
I will say that the article is a bit inaccurate at the end. Atari Games kept using the Tengen name for several years after the lawsuit for publishing games on the Genesis. They only stopped in 1994 when Warner consolidated all of its game related brands under the "Time Warner Interactive" name.
EvanAnderson
4 days ago
Prior to the Warner / Tramiel sale, though, Atari management showed a stunning lack of foresight re: the lifecycle of their console platforms. If I recall properly, I've heard Al Alcorn (and / or perhaps Joe Decuir) talk about how the technical people pitched VCS as a short-lived platform, but management kept the product going far beyond its intended lifetime.
The 5200 was released in 1982, built on 1979 technology. The Famicom was released in Japan in 1983 but didn't make it to the United States until 1986. If Atari had made better controller decisions with the 5200, and perhaps included 2600 compatibility, I think Nintendo would have had a much harder row to hoe when they came to the US.
Then again, if Atari had taken Nintendo's offer to distribute the NES in the US...
(Some people write speculative fiction about world wars having different outcomes. My "The Man in the High Castle" is to wonder about what the world would have been like if Jack Tramiel hadn't been forced out of Commodore, if the Amiga went to Atari, etc.)
kabdib
4 days ago
atari marketing was pretty f---ing terrible. objectively so
i had one of the home computer division marketing types come to my office one day, and was asked:
"can you print out all possible 8x8 bitmaps? we'd like to submit them to the copyright office so no one else can use them"
a stunning lack of knowledge of copyright law and basic exponential math. i didn't bother to point out that he really wanted all possible 8x8 _color_ bitmaps (there aren't enough atoms in the universe for this, by many orders of magnitude)
they didn't make very good decisions about consoles or computers, either
bluGill
4 days ago
Atari made a lot of bad decisions, but what you were asked is not something you should expect someone in marketing to understand in general. There is only so much someone can get good at in their lifetime and so eventually you will have to give up understanding everything - and then look like an idiot when you ask for something that is obviously unreasonable to someone who does know.
What was asked for is a reasonable ask. It just isn't possible to create.
thaumasiotes
4 days ago
> What was asked for is a reasonable ask.
No it isn't. You don't get any copyright protection on a volume of data produced by rules, such as "every possible 8x8 bitmap". Furthermore, you also don't get copyright protection against "copies" that were developed without reference to your work, as would always be the case for this idea. So there is no theoretical benefit from attempting it.
What's the reasonable part?
bluGill
3 days ago
You are thinking as a lawyer, who for sure should have jumped in (if got that far - it appears to have went to engineering first who shut it down for engineering reasons). Someone in marketing should not be expected to know or think of those details about law. Maybe they will, but it isn't there job.
Specialization is a good thing. However it means you will have often ideas that because of something you don't know are bad even though within your lane they are good.
shermantanktop
4 days ago
Agreed that a marketer can’t be expected to know the math. But is it really reasonable to attempt to copyright every possible 8x8 bitmap?
Jare
4 days ago
Asking if you can print all 8x8 bitmaps is very reasonable.
Wanting to copyright them to block competition is despicable.
EvanAnderson
4 days ago
I'm shocked at how "few" pages printing all 8x8 bitmaps would actually require. Assuming full page coverage of an 8.5 x 11 sheet at 600 dpi I'm only coming with a touch over 548 billion pages. I expected it to be more. Legal-size paper drops that to about 430.5 billion pages.
dmayle
4 days ago
I think your math is a little off (or maybe mine is).
I'll take a short cut and imagine that you have an 8x8 square with no margins (68% of a borderless 8.5x11), then you have a grid of 600x600 bitmaps, which is 3.6e5. if each pixel is only black or white, than you have 1.8e19 possible bitmaps (64-bit), divide the two and you have 5e13, or about 50 trillion pages. Fix the equation, and you get a grid of 5.2e5, for 30 trillion pages instead of 50.
However, bring that up to 24-bit color or more (even 8-level greyscale is e154), and the exponentiality of the problem goes back to as described by the OP
user
4 days ago
otterpro
4 days ago
I got Atari 5200 when I was a kid, and the disappointment was immense, considering the marketing and hype that went into it. The controller made playing games very difficult. And the games were pretty bad as well. Later, I got a Commodore 64 and then also NES, which just revolutionized home gaming in general.
VyseofArcadia
4 days ago
Ahh, I always forget Atari Corporation and Atari games were different. Thanks for the correction.
jerf
4 days ago
Yeah, Atari really "imprinted" on a style of game in the 2600 era and could never move on from it.
Interestingly, despite the fact that the Atari of today is completely disconnected in personnel several times over from the Atari of yesteryear, it still is imprinted on that style of game. YouTube popped this tour of an Atari booth from 10 days ago that shows what the modern Atari is up to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6u65VTqPSc (It's a five minute video, and you can pop it on 2x and just get the vibe of what I'm talking about even faster than an article could convey.)
And they're still making games that basically are Atari 2600 games with better graphics. If you really, really like that, they've got you.
Nintendo could easily have gone the same route. The NES is vastly more powerful than a 2600 by the standards of the time, but looking back in hindsight a modern child might find them somewhat hard to distinguish. Nintendo also made a ton of money with platformers like Super Mario 3 and could easily have also imprinted.
Instead, they definitely invested in pushing the frontier outward. Super Mario World was release-day for the SNES, and was definitely "an NES game, but better", but Pilot Wings was also release-day for the SNES, and that's not an NES game at all. F-Zero, also a release title, is a racing title, but definitely not "an NES racing game but better". The year after that you get Super Mario Kart, which essentially defined the entire genre for the next 33 years and still counting, and Star Fox in 1993, Donkey Kong Country was a platformer but definitely not a "rest on our laurels" platformer, I'm not mentioning some other games that could be debated, and then by the Nintendo 64, for all its faults, Super Mario 64 was again a genre-definer... not the very very first game of its kind, but the genre-definer. And so forth.
Nintendo never fell into the trap of doing exactly what they did last time, only with slightly better graphics. Which is in some ways a weird thing to say about a company that also has some very, very well-defined lines of games like Mario Kart and Super Mario... but even then in those lines you get things like Super Mario Galaxy, which is neither "genre-defining" nor the first of its kind, but is also definitely not just "like what came before only prettier". It shows effort.
The gaming industry moved on... Atari never did. Still hasn't.
KerrAvon
4 days ago
A child can certainly tell the difference between the best of the best 2600 games and Super Mario Brothers. The latter is recognizably a modern game. Many 2600 games are completely unplayable unless you read the manual.
“Never moved on” isn’t entirely fair to the modern incarnation of Atari, which is a relatively new company intentionally producing/licensing retro games, emulation, T-shirts, etc. It’s not that they haven’t moved on, it’s that this is what the new, youngish IP owners are doing with the brand. It’s a choice, not inertia.
jerf
4 days ago
It's not a literal point, it's an observation of how far we've come. A single texture blows away 2600 and NES games in size quite handily. The emulation effort for either is a sneeze compared to what we pour into a single frame nowadays. Compared to modern stuff they're both just primitive beyond primitive as far as a modern kid is concerned.
And as for your second paragraph, it has that thing I don't understand that so many people seem to have in their brains that if you explain why a thing is true, it is no longer true. I do not understand it. Explaining why they haven't moved on does not suddenly make it so they have moved on. They haven't moved on. Best of luck to them but I doubt it's going to work very well as a strategy in 2025 any more than it did in the 1980s.
anthk
4 days ago
Even in early and late 00's, NES, SNES and MD games were emulated everywhere.
HFguy
4 days ago
"And as for your second paragraph, it has that thing I don't understand that so many people seem to have in their brains that if you explain why a thing is true, it is no longer true. I do not understand it."
This is an interesting observation. I've seen the same thing.
I think the clue is in the "it is a choice"...perhaps they are perceiving seeing some sort of judgement being made of Atari implicit in your argument???
In other words, it can be true at the same time that (1) The are not moving on and (2) It is a choice.
And #2 does not invalidate #1.
MYEUHD
4 days ago
What is a "modern kid"? :) Super Mario Bros. 3 is very enjoyable, even for a "modern kid"
kjkjadksj
4 days ago
Dude. There is no way in hell they probably even could move on. They probably simply do not have the organizational structure to develop modern games. They are like one of those companies making retro style record players. That is their niche. Not trying to go toe to toe with nintendo or playstation. Just a completely different business model.
Dwedit
4 days ago
Star Fox was made mainly by Argonaut Software, including the development of the Super FX chip. Only the scenario and characters were from Nintendo.
Donkey Kong Country was all Rare, except for use of the Donkey Kong character. If you look carefully at the DK sprite, you can even see design elements from Battletoads in there.
jeromeb_la
4 days ago
I agree with you up to a point. Epyx made the Lynx for Atari and it was by far better than the gameboy for the gaming of its time. It had hardware-based sprite scaling. It could’ve done a Mario kart type of game very well if someone had the foresight to. But Atari didn’t have Mario or any cutesy ideas that kids wanted. Nintendo was very smart in that they made the main target audience the kids. Nintendo also knew parents would only spend a certain amount of money so the gameboy had the price advantage.
deaddodo
4 days ago
Man, I remember learning that the VCS/2600 had successors well after there time and was like "gee, I wonder how powerful those were". The difference between a 2600 and 5200 is a small step up, and the 5200 to 7800 is damn near imperceptible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKMXi1lAVow
Atari just never did....anything. It's so obvious in retrospect why the died.
bluGill
4 days ago
The 5200 was essential the 8 bit Atari computer hardware on the inside. The controllers were different, and no keyboard, but almost exactly the same (IIRC one graphics mode was different in their GPU [not related to the GPU of today]). The 8 bit XEGS of 1987 was the same hardware as computer.
They did have some interesting handhelds in later years, but didn't have enough good ideas to make them catch on.
MBCook
4 days ago
Early NES games were absolutely arcade style games too. It took a while for developers to figure out they could go more and it would work well.
Jeremy Parish’s YouTube channel does a fantastic job of documenting this on the NES and other consoles.
If Atari has been able to survive significantly longer I’m sure they would have learned too.
agumonkey
4 days ago
Even as a young kid I noticed that split. The NES included some posters and flyers listing all the original line up of games, with the same visual design (even cartridges stickers) and they were all simple arcade-like games. It already felt vintage even though this wasn't my generation, and rapidly the feel of games changed radically, it also merged with the current culture, with tv shows and movies of the 80s.
badsectoracula
4 days ago
> And they're still making games that basically are Atari 2600 games with better graphics.
FWIW various Atari incarnations did try to move on to newer stuff but they all ended up with various levels of fail. The current Atari incarnation is probably the most (relatively) successful this side of the 2000s - though they're probably also (relatively) the smaller one.
I think they were close to closing shop before deciding to focus on the retro and indie gaming stuff.
duxup
4 days ago
I remember growing up Atari was always Atari. The games you knew on an Atari were the same years later / system to system. You knew what you were going to get and it was pretty stagnant tech wise.
Nintendo came along and even across the life span of the NES games looked / got better year to year.
toast0
4 days ago
Plenty of late 2600 games look tons better than early games. If you look at Combat vs late life Activision games like Pitfall! or Keystone Kapers, it's a huge difference in visual quality.
It's still nothing compared to early NES games, of course. And late NES games certainly got a lot nicer looking.
VyseofArcadia
4 days ago
It's not about visual quality so much as the complete inability of Atari to understand that people's taste in games had moved on. In 1986, Super Mario Bros was still hottest game in the world, over a million sold in the US alone. Platformers were in, big time. And the Atari 7800 launched with... Centipede.
MBCook
4 days ago
Part of the problem is that the 7800 was a decent/good system when designed in ‘84 terms of tech, other than sound which I think was identical to the 2600.
But it was shelved for years because of the crash until the NES took off and suddenly it popped up again in ‘86 as “We’re Atari! Remember us! We’re alive! Buy us!” to try to cash in. Would that have been Tramiel?
However a couple of years in the 80s was an eternity in terms of tech. The games they had to sell were from the original launch plan, so they all felt a few years out of date in terms of mechanics too.
In ‘86 and ‘87 they had Joust, Asteroids, Food Fight, and Pole Position 2. All ‘81-‘83 Arcade games.
By then US kids had played Mario, Golf, Baseball, Duck Hunt, Excitebike, Ghosts and Goblins, Gradius, Castlevania, Kid Icarus, Metroid, and more.
The games on the 7800 were a full generation or two behind in terms of mechanics and complexity. There was no competing with what Nintendo and it’s 3rd parties had.
The joystick being famously bad wasn’t going to help anything. And 2600 compatibility probably wasn’t important by then when even a new 2600 was cheap.
So it didn’t do well at all.
Jeremy Parish’s covered this saga and the games on his YouTube channel in comparison to what else was available at the time of its actual launch.
flomo
4 days ago
Warner Atari had left an enormous amount inventory behind. (Beyond what they infamously put into a landfill.) They also had screwed-over the major chain stores, who wouldn't touch anything Atari.
Tramiel was cash poor and resurrected the 7800/2600jr/XEGS/etc just as way to keep the lights on selling old stuff as they launched the ST computer line. It wasn't really intended to be competitive, and was sold cheaply through second-tier outlets.
(There was actually still tons of classic inventory when Tramiel Atari went under.)
MBCook
3 days ago
That doesn’t surprise me. I know he was a “screw over anything if it will make the computers 0.05% more popular” guy. That was all that ever mattered in his mind.
bryanlarsen
4 days ago
As the article mentions, by that time Atari had split into Atari and Tengen. Atari was dying of self-inflicted wounds, but Tengen was going strong.
varelse
4 days ago
[dead]