andsoitis
2 days ago
One solution is to put them in space, leaving more room and resources for humans and wildlife.
atmavatar
a day ago
Why not build underground structures?
Such structures would have better latency due to locality, they wouldn't be subject to transmission interference from weather, they'd be far more accessible for replacements/upgrades, and being underground naturally aids in cooling and noise suppression.
While it would be resource intensive to dig out the underground structure, I'd be surprised if it even came close to the resource expenditure required to launch all your computer hardware into stable orbit, not even accounting for the fact that the former is a one-time, up-front cost, while the latter would have to be re-done every time you replace hardware.
tzs
a day ago
Assuming they can solve the cooling problem, there are still major problems with space data center at the scale proponents talk about.
First, getting them up there.
Second, disposal of them when they reach end of life, which is about 5 years.
The difficulty with getting them up there is we currently don't have orbital rockets that don't cause tremendous damage to the upper stratosphere. It has been tolerable so far because we've only done about 7500 orbital launches over the history of spaceflight.
The more extreme plans, like Musk's for a million data centers in space, would require around 10000 launches to get them deployed and then as they age 2000 launches a year to replace old ones.
There is active research and development on rocket fuels that won't cause massive damage, so this problem may be surmountable.
Reentry at end of life is also a concern. As they burn up they deposit things in the upper stratosphere that we really don't want there. As with launches that's not been a problem yet because over the entire history of spaceflight there have only been about 10k satellites and rocket bodies that have reentered, plus about 25k small things like debris.
That would be around 200k per year under the million data center in space plan. I don't know if it is possible to build them so they don't cause problems on reentry.
Probably a better approach for now is to build them in places where large power generation projects are being built. Those projects are already adding new power transmission capacity to get the power to cities, and it should be fairly efficient to at the same time add massive fiber internet capacity along the same right of way used for the transmission lines.
kikoreis
a day ago
Space is pretty big. Where would you propose putting them and what will you do when a switch port fails?
This is an idea that is getting a lot of airtime but not sure if anyone practical minded thinks it is viable in the next 15 years.
bastawhiz
a day ago
As soon as we figure out how to build a practical and cost effective way to radiate megawatts of heat in a vacuum I'm sure we will!
downrightmike
a day ago
Gigawatts
ThePowerOfFuet
a day ago
Heat radiation by convection doesn't work great in a vacuum.
Avicebron
a day ago
Why don't we just put them where the people who want them live?
k310
13 hours ago
That might be only one place
spwa4
17 hours ago
The answer to your and essentially every other comment in this thread is that you simply don't have much choice where to place datacenters.
1) You must have access to the core of the power grid, or a local very large power plant (that can't be near the end of its life), because elsewhere you can't get megawatts of power, never mind gigawatts
2) You need access to year-round flowing water (mostly because of regulations, or without regulations it would be possible to deal with the problem without access to a river)
3) You must have friendly government, banks, ... with realistic promises of staying stable for decades (because of the investment required) (this includes stable interest rates, and yes, despite Trump's best efforts, US is still on the top of the list here)
4) unless you're a hyperscaler that can pay for burying hundreds of miles of fiber, you need to be near crossing points of long-distance fiber links.
5) You must be within 10-50 milliseconds of what you're going to use them for (which, granted, is not much of a restriction in Europe, but it does mostly exclude places like, say, Africa, Australia or South America)
This means that even inside the US, the places where you can build a datacenter are small dots across the map, and there's only several hundred of them, not thousands. The only imho realistic way to make these things be located elsewhere would be to revisit the water regulations a year ago, because it's one of those things that doesn't really make sense anymore.
Terr_
a day ago
While that "solution" is, er, not strictly against the laws of physics, it still falls into the subcategory of "utterly insane", once one looks at the real tonnages and watts and dollars and engineering problems.
It was never a serious proposal, it's just some zillionaire's daydream about having their own Neuromancer-style space-station, a place where their word is law and their dynasty assured by a pet superintelligence.
The only "data-center in space" we're likely to see will be tiny low-power satellites, offering themselves as extraterritorial hosting (i.e. actual data, versus processing) for stuff like an oligarch's ill-gotten crypto-currency.
andsoitis
a day ago
You do realize that alphabet and amazon are also pursuing this, right?
Terr_
a day ago
No, they aren't, certainly not in a way which could "leave more room and resources for humans and wildlife."
Yeah, Jeff Bezos gives it some lip-service, but that's to promote Blue Origin as a company to launch rockets. Somebody will probably launch a symbolic little temporary thing to claim the prestige of "first datacenter in space".
But beyond that? Nobody's planning exaflops of compute in orbit, if they're sinking deep investment in satellites at all, it'll be for their classical role of relaying (or collecting) data.
andsoitis
a day ago
Ok, if you think Jeff Bezos is lying and Alphabet too, how about China: https://spacenews.com/china-backs-orbital-data-center-startu...
Timon3
a day ago
There is obvious strategic value in bringing some compute into orbit, since realistically such a DC can only be affected by a handful of potential actors. But putting anything more into orbit than a small strategic backup simply makes no sense.
If the issue was "leaving more room and resources for humans and wildlife", it would be much cheaper and easier to put DCs into the ocean. Yes, it's a hostile environment for such hardware, but it would still be much cheaper to handle all the downsides for the same amount of compute - including maintenance, which is currently economically impossible for DCs in orbit.
kikoreis
a day ago
Usually with these things people pursue a quasi impossible vision that ends up generating useful technological advances along the way. The funding will come from an ultra high risk R&D grade allocation and there will be someone in the supply chain that will benefit regardless of the final outcome. If you look at it from that angle then it is less surprising people around the planet will give it a go. Plus the mockup pictures look cool so free marketing and shocking headlines.
paulrenshaw
a day ago
this is the way!
one of the biggest threats to AI accelerationism longterm is the public rioting or foreign governments launching attacks against data centers
the plebians won't be able to burn the data centers if you put them in space though.
tEem21
a day ago
"Our researchers were so busy working out whether they could, noone stopped to wonder whether they should"
1970-01-01
a day ago
And yet no proof-of-concept has been attempted. Just another Elon saying at this point.
asdff
a day ago
There’s already datacenters in space though. Does starlink not count as a datacenter? What, their nodes are too small by modern standards? It is still a networked array of compute nodes, in space, currently operating.
1970-01-01
a day ago
No, a satellite is not a datacenter. The suffix is center. Example: A WAN is not a datacenter, it is a network.
asdff
a day ago
What is a datacenter? A series of compute nodes connected to eachother that happen to be in a warehouse for pragmatic purposes. I don't see how the starlink array is very different than that short of having them sit in some single structure. They are a connected array of compute nodes. That is basically a data center.
1970-01-01
a day ago
Yes, having them sit in a physical location together is the "C" in DC.
asdff
a day ago
Semantic arguments, not technical ones.
1970-01-01
a day ago
The tech argument is the bottom layer, the physical layer, does not exist.
asdff
a day ago
Does not exist? It is currently physically in orbit performing various compute jobs.
cyanydeez
a day ago
Another solution is to pray to the sun god for the wisdom of the universe.
vjvjvjvjghv
a day ago
If space doesn't work or is deemed too expensive put them right next to the house where the CEO of the company and his family live. Same with nuclear plants, rocket launch sites and chemical plants.
andsoitis
a day ago
Your suggestion to put industrial sites like nuclear plants, rocket launch sites, and chemical plants next to people is not a good idea.
vjvjvjvjghv
a day ago
A lot of these plants are built next to people. Just not next to the people who make the decision where to put them. Look up “cancer alley”.