Dutch central bank moves share of gold from U.S., Canada to London

171 pointsposted 4 hours ago
by TechTechTech

152 Comments

nfrankel

2 hours ago

Fun fact, France did exactly the same earlier this year (though the trend has been there for decades).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_repatriation#France

dgellow

31 minutes ago

There were discussions in Germany to do the same, but I don’t think they followed up on it

petre

an hour ago

France made an even a smarter move as it sold its reserves in the US and bought higher purity gold locally.

andsoitis

3 hours ago

> “A more equal spread of the gold supply between North America, the United Kingdom, and the U.S. also helps to spread the risk.”

They’re not exiting all the gold held in North America; instead they’re rebalancing so that for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk.

adjejmxbdjdn

17 minutes ago

Yes, but it’s a very specific geopolitical risk.

European countries aren’t worried that China will conquer the U.S. and they’d lose access to their gold because a hostile Chinese government controls it.

The increased risk is that the U.S. was considered basically risk free for allies, and now the U.S. isn’t considered risk free anymore and allied status is also at risk.

consp

3 hours ago

No, but "removing" around half of it from one place is quite a bit. Though I doubt any single physical kg ever moved more than a few meters to the buying countries vault. edit: They physically moved 27 tons, the rest was traded away and bought again in London.

dmurray

26 minutes ago

If they sell enough of it in the US and buy enough in London, traders who take the other side of that position will physically move it to London.

That's exactly the service the commodities markets provide: they will absorb a small trade without anyone incurring the costs of shipping precious metals, and they know who to call to get it shipped once there's enough supply/demand imbalance to make shipping it worthwhile.

m-i-l

11 minutes ago

In times of crisis it can be physically moved, e.g. under threat of Nazi invasion in 1939-1940 the UK physically moved over 1,500 tonnes of gold from London to Canada ("the largest known movement of physical wealth in history"[0]), and infamously at the start of the Spanish Civil War the Spanish physically moved 510 tonnes of gold from Spain to the Soviet Union (never to see it again[1]).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fish

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Gold_(Spain)

TheRealPomax

an hour ago

That's the fun thing about gold. It's literal gold, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Moving it really means moving it: bars are stamped and owned, and if the owner wants to move them, those bars need to get transported to wherever the owner says they should be.

It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)

NhanH

22 minutes ago

Currency is inherently about trust: you believe it can be traded later for goods. The mechanism with fiat is that you need to trust your state and government.

In gold, you trust that everyone is believing gold has value. And that it is commmon knowledge (in the logic sense [0])

Saying that gold has no more or less inherent monetary value than fiat currency assuming a magic wand that can change a large percentage of people's belief.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)

triceratops

9 minutes ago

Ammunition and canned goods actually have inherent monetary value. While not being fiat currency.

Isamu

26 minutes ago

>inherent monetary value

I agree, the price of gold depends on demand like everything else. Although gold just has some inherent utility value in addition to scarcity that makes it less likely for the price to go to zero, other stuff like cryptocurrency have only scarcity and can go to zero much more easily.

lotsofpulp

34 minutes ago

That is the non idiotic thing about gold, since it is not fiat, is not easy to produce, and it is easy to verify, it can be used as a currency in less stable times/places. It’s a redundancy. Perhaps bitcoin satisfies many of these properties without the high costs to secure and move gold, but it needs electricity and a network?

https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-l...

mg794613

2 hours ago

That is what the pamphlet says.

Fact is, it was not a issue before, because of trust.

"for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk." is just nice wording for "Trump is burning down all bridges".

andsoitis

2 hours ago

> "for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk." is just nice wording for "Trump is burning down all bridges".

It is more multifaceted than that. To wit: they're leaving a substantial amount still in North America.

America's actions is a big part of it, but it isn't the only reason.

devin

an hour ago

It's a hedge against the risk of the current government. Leaving a bunch here is part of the hedge. It's not as "multifaceted" as you're making it out to be.

andsoitis

an hour ago

Hey, I’m simply echoing what the Dutch government said. I’m taking them at face value since the Dutch are pretty direct.

skrebbel

an hour ago

The Dutch are pretty direct but not to Donald Trump, who has a famously thin skin and can cause a huge European crisis with a single tweet.

You have to see all European diplomacy through that lens. Everybody’s tiptoeing around the orange idiot’s feelings and meanwhile working hard to make sure we’re never again so dependent on a country that’s so untrustworthy. This gold move is one of the many little steps taken in that direction.

basisword

31 minutes ago

The US being that 'geopolitical risk'.

roromainmain

2 hours ago

Considering the Netherlands’ strategic ties with the US, this sounds like quite a bold move. France doing so was one thing, but the Dutchs have always been rather Atlanticists.

Rover222

an hour ago

They're still hoping to get back New York City some day.

1attice

an hour ago

They are also consummate antifascists, which I suppose is in tension now with atlanticism

MadrasThorn

an hour ago

Everyone now has to hedge against the dollar because Elon, bank run Thiel, and Trump have taken over the system.

I will not get better until they are removed.

It is not in their interest to save the federal government, US dollar, or the economy.

They are all BRIICS backed and want the dollar and trans atlanticism, backed by the US military, to fail.

y-c-o-m-b

28 minutes ago

> It is not in their interest to save the federal government, US dollar, or the economy.

I think "save" is not even in the room with us; they seem to be actively harming every industry: farming, food, oil, electronics, manufacturing, healthcare, etc. It's a full on assault.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", but in this case we're dealing with malicious actors and it's apparent these are malicious actions. DOGE was just the first step.

At first I thought they were trying to establish something that looked closer to Russia, where they can make life just hard enough for them to keep accumulating wealth indefinitely. Now I'm worried they're going for something that resembles Africa's poorest nations, where we fight amongst ourselves over resources that are increasingly constrained.

Rover222

an hour ago

What do you even mean by 'removing' Elon from 'the system'?

scottLobster

13 minutes ago

One of the crazier ideas to address the deficit is revaluing gold reserves and throwing them at the deficit. Does anyone really think the Trump admin wouldn't consider seizing foreign gold reserves as part of such a move?

I know that instinctively sounds crazy, but this administration attacked Iran without a plan for their closing the Strait of Hormuz, and tariffed uninhabited islands based on an AI-generated list.

They're rational, but they're aggressive and dumb. Treat them as you would treat a guy who starts bar fights; one strategy is quietly moving to the far side of the bar, which is what this appears to be.

adolph

2 hours ago

Another interesting aspect to this story is the flow of value from US Treasuries to gold.

  Total gold held by central banks globally was valued at approximately $4tr at 
  the start of 2026, surpassing, for the first time, the roughly $3.9tr in US 
  Treasuries held by the same institutions. This marked a reordering of reserve 
  asset preferences with significant long-term implications. [0]
0. https://www.investing.com/analysis/why-central-banks-are-bri...

bix6

an hour ago

What are the long term implications? Gold can’t reasonably be the medium so new currency baskets?

Nathanael_M

an hour ago

Literally moves? Physically moves? Come on, doesn't this make your hands itch? Is it heist time folks?

jsiepkes

an hour ago

It's in the article; They sold gold in NYC and with that money bought gold in London.

mapleoin

14 minutes ago

But how did they move the money between NYC and London?

jmclnx

3 hours ago

This shows how much trust in the US has declined due to Trump. Netherlands is not the only or first country to do this, other countries have started this too.

appleappleapple

3 hours ago

And this lost trust will not suddenly reappear when he leaves office. He has damaged our reputation for a generation

kingleopold

3 hours ago

No it's not simple to call "he" did this. WH people, half? of the country supporting him for 2nd time, and wealthy people that donated so much too, it's never "he". Nothing big like that is one persons responsibility. Actions have cons. ?

All elected and supported, especially AFTER how he and his supports lead the so many extra deaths in covid. I know your media does not bring facts but truth is out there.

lokar

an hour ago

Not half the country. Almost half of the people who voted.

_whiteCaps_

an hour ago

IMO if you don't vote, you're tacitly agreeing with whoever gets voted into office.

(Although US voter suppression weakens this argument)

toast0

36 minutes ago

That's reasonable enough, but you have to consider it in the context that we don't vote for president, we vote for state electors to vote for president.

If you live in a 'safe' state, tacitly agreeing with your state's electors doesn't mean tacitly agreeing with the electoral college result.

lotsofpulp

28 minutes ago

If you can’t be bothered to make your disapproval seen at least once every 4 years, then I consider it a tacit approval. So that actually makes 2/3 of Americans in support of Trump’s brand of America.

rdm_blackhole

17 minutes ago

I disagree with your take. You have the right to not vote when you disagree with all parties running.

In fact, from a moral point of view voting for the lesser evil is highly objectionable because you are voting for someone who you do not even support just so that another person you support even less does not get elected.

Its perfectly fine to say, I don't agree with either and I am going to sit this one out otherwise you end up in weird political dynamics that you can see playing out in real time in France for example.

verelo

an hour ago

This! I get frustrated when i hear folks in the US claim Trump has failed them. You failed yourselves. The system is falling apart and barely half of people turn up to participate in elections? What are the rest of us expected to take away from this? Apathy is what I take away from it, and that does not earn my trust.

wartywhoa23

3 hours ago

The legend about the sole man in charge has been carefully crafted and cultivated for ages, but it's never the puppet and always puppet masters in this clown show.

gwbas1c

3 hours ago

Sadly, the way people vote is more complicated than you might believe. Trump is the symptom of malfunctioning system that doesn't give people good options in the ballot box.

triceratops

2 hours ago

I'll say something controversial: Clinton and Harris were both better options than the guy who started his campaign mocking a reporter's disability. If voters had any sense it should've ended right there.

The rationalizing, the "corrupt DNC" arguments and everything else is a cop-out.

AlexandrB

2 hours ago

Here's a real controversial opinion: If Clinton had won, the eventual backlash would be much greater and have elected a far more odious figure than Trump. America is lucky that Trump is kind of a bumbling oaf that channeled populist rage.

triceratops

2 hours ago

Maybe the backlash would've been in Congress, through the election of more extreme figures on the right and left.

bix6

2 hours ago

Disagree. Trump has done way more damage than Clinton ever could have. The backlash would’ve been similar to post Obama cuz the racists are also the sexists.

spiderfarmer

2 hours ago

That kind of normalises Trump, which is totally the wrong thing to do. You should not accept this as fact, nor should you tolerate this current regime. Doing so without protest is the biggest problem you have. Your defeatism is a self fulfilling prophecy.

idbnstra

an hour ago

yes! we need ranked choice voting everywhere!

rootusrootus

2 hours ago

That explains how he got almost half the votes on election night, but it does not explain the 1/3 that still to this day support him 100%. There is a pretty substantial underlying problem in play and Trump is the symptom, but the problem is deeper than a malfunctioning political system.

mindslight

an hour ago

That explains how he got the votes on election night in 2016. A vote for Grump in 2016 was completely understandable. But he should have plainly been a one term president, after his abjectly terrible handling of Covid (for starters, we needed leadership rather than dividership). But unfortunately in our upside-down world, Covid actually handed Grump a big excuse for why his first term was such an exercise in failure. And if there is one thing Grump is good at, it's weaseling responsibility onto others - a quality that his followers greatly admire as it soothes their own consciences as well.

lokar

an hour ago

It is almost unheard of in the US for an elected politician to poll lower than 30%, it seems to be a floor. This is for both parties, and all sorts of terrible behavior.

SideburnsOfDoom

an hour ago

> almost unheard of in the US for an elected politician to poll lower than 30%, it seems to be a floor

Alan Keyes apparently set the floor at 27%, which is not far below 30%

> Obama vs. Alan Keyes. ... Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement.

https://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_Senate_elec...

And lizardman's Constant is 4% https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lizardman%27s_Constant

GJim

2 hours ago

Are you saying there was a worse option than Trump?

Really?

Because unless the alternative option was a diminutive Austrian with a dodgy 'tache, I find that rather hard to believe.

The reality is America voted for Trump (TWICE!) because they wanted him. The rest of the world knows this, and is now acting accordingly.

EDIT: Downvotes coming from the brainwashed MAGA crowd!

SideburnsOfDoom

an hour ago

I disagree not because "brainwashed MAGA crowd" but because people saying "it can't be worse" are almost always wrong. Unless you're starving in the ruins of your house in one of the world's war zones, in which case you're likely focussed on survival, not saying that.

Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

People in the UK voted for Brexit because "well it can't be worse, can it?" They were suckers.

I don't disagree with the "The reality is" line.

triceratops

10 minutes ago

> Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option

But none of them were on the presidential ballot in 2016, 2020, or 2024.*

*Under one of the two parties that has any chance of actually winning.

basisword

28 minutes ago

>> People in the UK voted for Brexit because "well it can't be worse, can it?" They were suckers.

I don't think that's true it all. They were promised that it would be better and sold pretty obvious lies. Same applies to Trump. Unfortunately the intelligence of the average voter is now at the bottom of the barrel and I wouldn't expect that to improve soon. Just look at the support people like Andrew Tate get among young people.

andsoitis

3 hours ago

Voters cannot be held accountable for all the specific things the person they elected do.

That much should be self-evident.

dhosek

3 hours ago

He’s doing exactly what he said he would do when he ran. People who voted for him can very much be held accountable.

pton_xd

24 minutes ago

Technically, he campaigned on not starting new wars... so he's doing the worst combination of what he said he would do, AND what he said he wouldn't do. Amazing!

andsoitis

2 hours ago

> People who voted for him can very much be held accountable.

Can you give an example of how, in practice, it would work to hold millions of voters accountable for what their elected representative does?

Worth picking not just Trump, but let's say a few other Presidents around the world, including someone you voted for.

AnimalMuppet

2 hours ago

When he ran, did he say that he'd make tariff rates bounce around like a kangaroo on speed? No, I don't think he did.

Did he say that he'd threaten to annex Canada and Greenland? Not that I recall.

Did he say that he'd start a war with Iran? No, I'm pretty sure he said "No new wars."

Look, he's a loose cannon. Everyone who voted for him should have known that. But no, he's not doing "exactly what he said he would do when he ran". Some of what he's doing is what he said, and some is completely contradictory to what he said.

(Credit where due: I stole the "kangaroo on speed" line from an unpublished short story. Don't remember the author, or I'd give them credit by name.)

pebble

an hour ago

If you found anything he did surprising you haven’t been paying attention to him at all.

mylies43

2 hours ago

So what? None of this is a surprise at all, if his voters fell for his "president of peace" bit then thats on them, at minimum they KNEW they were voting for a loose cannon who had no morals, cared about himself, insulted everyone around him, had terrible monetary and international policy... He bank rupted CASINOS for gods sake. They had every sign the 2nd time around, anyone who voted for him and regrets it now mainly does so because his bad choices are now personally affecting them lets not get it twisted. They were all happy as long as "others" got owned and not them

buttercraft

26 minutes ago

You might have a better point if the elected person hadn't made such a big show of following "mandates" from the voters. You can't have it both ways.

maigret

2 hours ago

That’s the definition of democracy. Of course voting is significant and has consequences.

andsoitis

2 hours ago

> That’s the definition of democracy.

In a democracy, it is the elected officials, who are meant to represent the voter, that are held accountable. Not the voter.

> Of course voting is significant and has consequences.

Tautology but also not relevant. How do you propose the voter be held accountable?

ben_w

3 hours ago

Anyone can be held accountable for things they are responsible for, the question is how they'll react to being held thusly.

andsoitis

2 hours ago

> Anyone can be held accountable for things they are responsible for, the question is how they'll react to being held thusly.

Voters are responsible for selecting representatives, but they are not responsible for running things and making the kinds of decisions that elected officials need to and do make.

c-linkage

2 hours ago

Voters can be held accountable; he demonstrated exactly what he was the first time in office and then people voted for him again.

basisword

26 minutes ago

If you vote for a man that thinks he can "grab women by the pussy" because he's famous, and then you vote for him AGAIN, you should be held accountable for everything he does. It's patently obvious he's an absolutely awful person and completely untrustworthy.

tgv

3 hours ago

If they could have known or suspected those things, then yes, they bear the responsibility. And Trump's intentions were there for all to see.

andsoitis

2 hours ago

> If they could have known or suspected those things, then yes, they bear the responsibility.

In a situation like this, I like to do a thought experiment where I replace "Trump" with "Republican voter" in a headline or a story to see whether that idea holds up.

exe34

2 hours ago

What if they knew what they were voting for?

wccrawford

2 hours ago

And I'd argue that it should.

He opened the door, and I find it very, very unlikely that either side will close it after this. Dems and Reps will both use this to take control in ways that would have been unthinkable prior to Trump's first election. The only way to restore any measure of that trust would be to pass laws that prevent this kind of abuse, and there's no way that politicians will give up power they've gained.

bluealienpie

2 hours ago

They had the laws to stop him but since congress stopped legislating, it gave the supreme courts wide discretion to approve executive actions. Strong executive isn’t a flaw of the system, it’s the inevitable consequence of years of media illiteracy and vast sums of money in politics enabled by citizens united.

toast0

10 minutes ago

Passed laws don't seem very constraining. Between simple disregard and disregard plus eventual compliance after lengthy court review, there's a lot of time spent under unlawful orders and regulations. There's no personal liability for (most?) of these unlawful actions and Trump doesn't seem to care about continuity of government or having a legacy of doing unlawful things.

Impeachment could be a check on his power, but impeachment is a kangaroo court with a political jury, so he would need to piss off a lot more Republican senators than he has.

A few presidental impeachments over unlawful acts ending in conviction would change future behavior. But it seems unlikely that we'll get there.

unethical_ban

an hour ago

The ideal would be that a new president is elected who uses current powers to reverse/rebuild what Trump has torn down and have their "one big bill" that Congress seems to pull off per president be a reforms package that locks in additional checks and legislative powers against the Executive. The Unitary Executive theory is the most dangerous attack on our Constitution in a long time.

On the other hand, a right-wing Supreme Court may try to block any reforms that check the Executive. The Legislature's ultimate oversight power of the Exec is impeachment, and they have decided that no amount of corruption or crime or destruction should be checked as long as it "feels right".

petre

an hour ago

Trust in the US started to decline dating back in the Obama era when they listened to Merkel's phone etc. Trump has finally eroded what was left of it. Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe are still trying to keep a good relationship with thd US regardless, because they don't want to lose US support due to Trump's whims… err transactional diplomacy.

TalkingCodeMonk

3 hours ago

The sociopathic criminals who dominate American business and politics are the cause of the kleptocracy; plus the tens of millions of citizens indoctrinated with mental illness from their disinformation and psychological warfare.

None of this should be a surprise to you if you've ever watched Fox News and derivatives; propaganda so on the nose it would make a nazi blush.

retired

2 hours ago

In the end it is all about money. Putin killed hundreds of EU citizens and we are still buying his gas, oil, uranium and fertilizer.

Trump can bomb cities in Europe and we would trade with the US. I doubt we will ever fully separate from the US.

kaon_2

3 hours ago

It may be quirky for Americans to hear this, but one pivotal moment when it truly dawned on the average european citizen how corrupt the US has become, was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup. Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted. Any toddler could see how wrong it was and it was felt deeply in many hearts.

Needless to say trust is close to 0% throughout the population - even the right wing populists distance themselves from Trump - and this is the consequence. I fear we are heading into dangerous times.

lemoncookiechip

3 hours ago

Unironically true. The average person could care less about following politics, but Europeans live football.

GJim

3 hours ago

> could care less

Surely you mean couldn't care less.

sph

2 hours ago

I just saw David Mitchell fall to his knees at a Waitrose

ButlerianJihad

3 hours ago

Well, I could care less, personally. I wish I did care less!

justinhj

2 hours ago

Countries have different idioms.

GJim

2 hours ago

Please explain?

iammjm

an hour ago

One example to illustrate: when talking about dying, Americans would kick the bucket, Poles would kick the calendar, French would break the pipe, Germans would drop the spoon, and the Spanish would pull the leather. But they all would be referring to the US's trust among its allies.

justinhj

an hour ago

In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less". The intention and meaning is the same. So the original comment did mean to say what they said.

My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language.

Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"

slater

44 minutes ago

> In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less"

No, it's not.

vman81

3 hours ago

> The average person could care less about following politics

Could they?

SAI_Peregrinus

39 minutes ago

If they isolated themselves from all news, social media, and lived as a hermit, yes. They could care less, but it'd be difficult.

ramblerman

2 hours ago

I think you misunderstood the emphasis there - yes Europeans love football.

The point is that it's so blatant for such little gain, it's still a game. I.e. if he is willing to do that so openly for such low stakes, imagine what he does behind closed doors when it matters.

ericmay

2 hours ago

> Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted.... was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup.

FIFA, a largely European organization created by Europeans for a sport that Americans barely care about and in the center of multiple corruption scandals and controversies over the last few decades and you're really going to sit here and try to tell others that the real wakeup call was when Trump made a phone call to ask that a star player who by many respects shouldn't have received a red card over at best a technicality in the first place be reinstated for the good of sport and competition...?

And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?

I guess Donald Trump's phone call was the real last straw, and something like, idk, 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar dying to construct World Cup facilities is just another day at the anti-corruption office? [1]

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...

myrmidon

2 hours ago

There is a big difference between some sports association being greedy/unethical and elected officials abusing their position of power (especially when they sit in the highest positions and there are zero consequences).

ericmay

an hour ago

Right, its just we all lose respect and we're real mad when Donald Trump makes a phone call about something that, well you know frankly the American public agreed with, and we don't lose respect or whatever and we're not outraged when that same extremely corrupt organization continues to do greedy, unethical, and corrupt things.

It's astounding that European governments would never do corrupt things. Totally never. And if they did, sorry they only draw the line at influencing FIFA.

watwut

38 minutes ago

Who exactly is talking about goverments? This was a random citizen having the "oh, so this is that rupture they talk about" moment.

watwut

44 minutes ago

Yes, exactly that. And precisedly for that reason.

FIFA was corrupt. Infantino took it on another level, making it massively more corrupt then before. Then he created a peace price which combined corruption with astonishing lack of self respect and mockery.

And then Trump called over the red card, which contrasted with everything before as yes another never seen before level of corruption.

But second, FIFA is not an European institution. It is worldwide org and non European members are large contributors to the corruption. The middle east and afrikan members do like it corrupt, it suits their political goals.

> And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?

Honestly, it even seems so. Trying to directly influence a soccer match, publically changing rules while not even understanding them is a new level.

Moreover, there is no reason to think Trump is less corrupt then Putin or Xi. If anything, he is equally or more corrupt.

ericmay

37 minutes ago

A better way to think about it is imagine that FIFA is a massive, roaring inferno of corruption and Europeans are ignoring it and then Donald Trump walks by and tosses a Mcdonalds wrapper on the inferno and it grows every so slightly and now all of a sudden everyone is concerned. Sorry don't care. Most Americans agreed with him doing that as well since the foul was stupid.

There are things worthwhile criticizing folks for. Donald Trump is corrupt. So is FIFA. So are numerous European countries and organizations. But equating Trump making this phone call to "some unheard level that Xi Jingping and Vladimir Putin wouldn't dream of attempting" is absolutely absurd sensationalism that is, frankly, anti-intellectual, dishonest, and only serves to instigate flame wars and other such nonsense.

kichimi

3 hours ago

To add to this, because I think it is important context for Americans who may not be aware, football is seen very officially by many European nations and national governments as a cultural counterpart to many international treaties within Europe that were born out of the desire to bring our respective cultures closer together after the second world war.

It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically.

It is so important, that there are articles written about its importance on EU institutes websites. For example, this one reflects on Footballs importance in relation to the First, Second and Cold wars. https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-footb...

To see Trump so flagrantly manipulate it sends a cultural signal that is hard for those outside of Europe to see, and that by some can be seen as the cultural equivalent of the political threats Trump has made against NATO.

At this point, your average European Trump supporter/right wing populist needs only reminding of Trumps interference to get a complete positional change - that's how bad it is.

geodel

an hour ago

> It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically.

Sports is peak diversion from real issues, Whether Europe, US or India and so on. The countries can go to hell, people can drown in endless real problems. But if people can be smothered with sport entertainment so they ignore real things whats better than that.

In India whole country can become absolute crap. Worst on any social, economic indicator but as long free cricket broadcast is on TV and mobile, life is good.

petcat

3 hours ago

Nah it was an egregiously bad call by itself, and then the slow-mo VAR was used to justify it which is also against their own rules. So they corrected a mistake that could have severely impacted the result and integrity of the rest of the games.

But yeah, people got upset...

kabes

3 hours ago

Doesn't matter. There's constant bad calls being made by referees. It shouldn't be, but their humans and make mistakes and it's part of the game. But only the mistake against the US got corrected.

petcat

3 hours ago

How are we explaining Ronaldo not being required to serve his remaining 2-match suspensions at the start of the games?

charlieyu1

2 hours ago

Same, FIFA is just corrupt.

petcat

2 hours ago

Okay so then we are agreeing that FIFA, a European institution, is a deeply corrupt, inconsistent, and unprincipled governing body.

But somehow this was the fault of the US?

pasc1878

2 hours ago

FIFA is NOT a European institution it is the global one.

The European football institution is UEFA which has complained about things like this and is also trying to remove Infantino – but the rest of the world has been bribed enough to keep him on.

petcat

2 hours ago

Fifa is a European legal entity, right? headquartered in Switzerland?

charlieyu1

2 hours ago

Conversations like this make me want more gatekeeping especially for football. Some people just don’t have respect to customs and traditional practices and the actual untouchables.

To not to sway too far away, well technically yes. However all 55 UEFA members threathened to quit FIFA after Infanito’s plan to privatise the World Cup. It was just last month. And we all know who is behind this.

triceratops

2 hours ago

Does that make the UN American?

petcat

2 hours ago

Is the UN a private organization legally incorporated in the US? The way that FIFA is in Europe/Switzerland?

triceratops

2 hours ago

Would FIFA be less corrupt if it were legally incorporated somewhere else?

I didn't know registering an entity in another place automatically changed the character of the people that run it. That's magic. Literally mind-control.

petcat

an hour ago

The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution and that has nothing to do with the US.

But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.

triceratops

an hour ago

> The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution

It has "international" right there in the name. The vast majority of its members are not "European" in any sense. Calling it "European" is offensive to those members and to the footballing world as a whole. It reeks of a colonial attitude.

I'll ask you again: what actually affects how an organization runs? The place that it's registered in, or the people in charge?

FIFA has to be registered somewhere for legal reasons. That doesn't make it of that place.

> But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.

If FIFA were registered in the Caymans would you call it a Caymanian organization?

hgoel

2 hours ago

FIFA is a deeply corrupt institution (IDK if they count as specifically European, but if they do, it doesn't change the fact that they're corrupt). The US government is also deeply corrupt.

josefritzishere

3 hours ago

Is this to prevent the Orange man from stealing it? What do they imagine the risk is?

consp

3 hours ago

Stated in another article it said the reason is it cannot be used as a bargaining chip during trade disputes. They specifically mentioned it would likely be more difficult to use in emergency situations when located in North America (without mentioning specific reasons).

ben_w

3 hours ago

Well, one of their near neighbouring countries is currently worried about Trump stealing their territory, and he's made threats to annex Canada too, so it's not exactly an unreasonable fear.

dukeyukey

2 hours ago

Would you put it past Trump to use gold stores as a threat?

weatherlite

3 hours ago

Their national color is orange so they should get along with him fine

expedition32

3 hours ago

Dutch gold reserve is only 50 billion which wouldn't even be enough to run the country for half a year. Other than the symbolical value it's pocket change.

consp

3 hours ago

It's the 11th largest in the world, or about 7.5% of the US reserves which is a lot more than the gdp difference (4.4%)

maxdo

3 hours ago

Just in time before major European continental war begin. Strategic move.

For the context : German airport was officially attacked by Russia . And that’s only one of many incidents. UK is on the radar of official Russian hawks for a very long time

ben_w

2 hours ago

More a vs. US strategy than a vs. Russia strategy.

Russia has been weird for a long time, they are doing sub-threshold-of-war attacks for a while now.

But the USA? Outright threatening allies, talking about annexing some of them, making more threats against other allies who make moves to defend those allies? And he's got a known love for gold, started wars without bothering to inform allies he's now trying to punish for failing to provide help that he told them he didn't even want.

Muromec

2 hours ago

US is doing now to Europe and Canada what russia was doing for the last 30 (or 300) years to their neighbours. No response -- push further is the game

kakacik

an hour ago

Yeah russia has been waging war against the west basically since putin came into power. That paranoid kgb fuck sees anything free as direct threat to their model of how to run a dictatorship and very much a personal threat on top of that (he may not be completely wrong given how proactive cia has been and their general methods of subversion). Divide and conquer, subvert EU and produce infighting on some emotional topics with ideal goal of breakup to pick countries one by one, subvert US to focus more inward and stop policing the world, ideally weaking it long term.

This is nothing new for anybody interested in the topic, its all very open and public (which is kind of the point I guess to manipulate public perception too). Every single secret service know this as 101 reality. In same way ie war in Ukraine started in 2014 in all measurable ways, not 2022.

US part... well its painful to watch, especially the incompetence or elephant-in-porcelain-shop part, of a shop that took many decades to build. But its good long term for Europe and rest of west - we became uber weak and over-reliant on US bases, their tech and power projection, and even if its 2026, influence not backed by real power means very little in actual world out there. Be provably strong or vanish seems to be mantra. Its smart to adapt to reality rather than expect the world to rearrange itself to some idealistic wishful thinking, however nice it may feel and however well it may have worked during easy peaceful times.

wafflemaker

2 hours ago

Thinking that there's a major continental war about to begin is exactly what Russia wants people to think and what they push through their propaganda machine. It's also good for some governments, because then nobody questions military spending. Poland just bought 96 Apache assault helicopters for 10B USD. It takes just 1M USD in drones to take them down, just to show how absurd show of loyalty to US that deal was.

There's issues with defending the east flank. Namely, without taking full control of the Baltic Sea, Baltic States and Finland will run out of provisions in weeks.

strictnein

2 hours ago

> It takes just 1M USD in drones to take them down

You can buy incendiary armor piercing bullets that could take one down for $5, but strangely they've been utilized for decades.

Finland will run out of provisions in a weeks? How so? Will Russia control their western border?

carlosjobim

an hour ago

Here we go again... Finland and the Baltics are "the East flank" when Russia and Germany want to go to war again. Excellent and fun battle fields for them, without a doubt. Far away from important regions and important people.

somenameforme

2 hours ago

That was a rather obvious false flag attempt, presumably from Ukraine. It was a weaponized drone, the first that would have been directly used against NATO, that was found just outside a Ukrainian plane and by amazing coincidence just sat there instead of detonating.

When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.

---

That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories and other things that have been going boom, but it's always going to be done with plausible deniability - sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia, and the like. They're not going to just start bombing planes in airports with drones.

maxdo

an hour ago

Wow. This post serves as a great example on how propaganda can brainwash people brain. Sure , Ukraine whose survival solely depends on EU, plans a false flag attempt . To achieve what ? Russia openly attacked territory of eu with drones , infiltration, poison operations , not to mention Slovakia , Orban etc . What is there to prove for Ukraine ???

somenameforme

an hour ago

Ukraine is, in the most positive framing - in a war of attrition that isn't going well. They want greater involvement, ideally much more directly, from NATO countries. And Germany is certainly going to be happy to play along because the AfD is quickly becoming the largest single party in that country. They are Euroskeptical and against continuing the war with Russia. A direct Russian attack on Germany would likely undermine the AfD's growing support.

But since I've been brainwashed by propaganda, perhaps you can enlighten me on what benefits you believe Russia would see for themselves in deciding to directly attack a NATO country in a way that would lack any plausible deniability. In particular you need to come up with some sort of argument here for how they might see this as viably resulting in an improved positioning for themselves.

qw12jh

30 minutes ago

After observing the talk as opposed to the actions of Meloni and Trump, I would bet that the AfD would continue the war as is.

Weidel would make a "Notwendige Politikwende" speech and that's it. They'll then cut social services and enact pro-business laws and make some noise about immigration until ordered by the industry to allow it.

somenameforme

14 minutes ago

I don't think the fear in most politics is about the actions of the 'newcomers', but about potential of the old guard losing power. In the US if a third party started looking like a real threat, Rs and Ds would 100% come together to frame them as the greatest threat of humanity to ever exist, exactly as happened with Perot even in the age before hyper hyperbole.

Like you alluded to Meloni went from end of the world to business as usual in remarkably short order, and the same could viably if not likely happen with AfD as well, but the bigger change behind the scenes there is that her party went from 2% in 2013, to leading Italy today - and that gain came at the expense of the loss of power by whatever the older establishment was in Italy.

Muromec

2 hours ago

Don't discount russian incompetence and sloppiness. They are really big on half assing everything

strictnein

2 hours ago

> That was a rather obvious false flag attempt

No, it wasn't.

> That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories

They're involved in all of them.

> sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia

This isn't a movie. They pay criminals to do criminal activity. They're not utilizing "sleeper agents" to burn down a building.

>When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.

What does this even mean? Are you equating Ukraine with Iran and the Houthis?

bell-cot

2 hours ago

> For the context:

Comparing that German airport "attack" by Russia to the 9/11 attack by Mr. bin Laden - would you say that all gold reserves should have been moved out of the USA back in 2001?

jabroni_salad

2 hours ago

Looking at TFA, they are moving it to a venue where selling off the gold can happen quickly. This kind of thing was not necessary for the USA's approach to funding the War on Terror because we decided on a really innovative combo of Taking On Debt and also Just Not Accounting For Things which will surely have no consequence later on.

blitzar

2 hours ago

Didn't dear leader (Trump) just say he was going to invade the Bond Market?

If a shooting war breaks out beween the US and the Bond Market, the gold isnt safe anywhere.

SH16q

2 hours ago

No, the German US lapdogs put out a statement that the drones in Leipzig “are known to us from other Russian hybrid operations and its war against Ukraine” and that they “pointed to a high degree of technical expertise”.

So high in fact that the operation malfunctioned. Precisely what a false flag would do.

The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.

All that these stupid politics accomplish is that the AfD will have 35% in the next elections so Germany can enjoy Trump-like corruption and the industry can exploit people even more. At this point one wonders if the CDU is in on it and the AfD is secretly already part of the uniparty, public theater of forbidding the AfD notwithstanding.

strictnein

an hour ago

A false flag attack would malfunction? Why not do damage to really up the reaction? Even after an explosion there's plenty of pieces left to investigate and figure out where the devices came from. Just throw some parts made in [insert target of false flag here] and you're all set.

> The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.

What "oil rich" Baltic states are you referring to? Is the US going to takeover Norway?

jajaja1287

40 minutes ago

No damage because they need the Antonovs.

Parts can be obtained from Russia by Russian speaking Ukrainians that are indistinguishable from Russians.

You are making up "oil rich" Baltic states. The comment said "various oil rich states", i.e. Iran and Venzuela.

I assume you volunteer for the front?