Telaneo
3 days ago
It's been a joy to not need to bring 3 chargers along when I travel.
I think the only thing we're missing to make the USB-C experience perfect is cable labelling. It's unreasonable to make every cable perform to the max spec, but if we could standardise on some labelling or colours for cables that are charging-only, 480 mbit (usb 2 speed), 5 Gbit (usb 3 speed), 10 GB (usb 3.1 speed), 20 GB (usb 3.2 speed), plus whatever higher speeds (and I guess Thunderbolt too), then we'd be golden.
I like the cables I have, and by know I know what cables do what, but it ain't obvious without testing.
gumby
3 days ago
I scan the emarker on every USB C that comes into the house and add a p-touch label. I chuck out power-only and ultra baseline (60 W/USB 2 cables) with no marker or resistors.
Power-only cables could be handy when traveling as they are essentially a condom, but they can only charge slowly and I always have a better cable with me. I wouldn’t mind a PD aware charge-only device but inquire require some MITM circuitry and I’m too lazy to make one.
firloop
3 days ago
Some cheaper devices I have (e.g. rechargeable LED light strip) _only_ charge via power-only cables. Was maddening when I realized I had thrown out all but one of the cables that can charge it.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan
3 days ago
More often than not these are usually cheap Chinese devices that are expecting a USB-C to USB-A (power-only) cable, because they're actually USB-A devices, with USB-A circuitry, modified slightly to appear as if they're USB-C.
Basically they skipped out on building power negotiation smarts that are required to support real USB-C charging, and instead just swapped out the physical connector.
Tharre
3 days ago
They skipped out on literally 2 resistors. That's it, that's all that is required for real USB-C charging.
ACCount37
3 days ago
Yep. The two fucking resistors. All it takes 2 x 5.1K, and yet, somehow, people keep fucking it up.
It's not expensive or complex. It's just that somehow, no one thought to look up "how to add type c to your device" online, or ask an LLM, or put literally any effort into making sure the device works as it should.
philistine
3 days ago
Those two resistors cost money. It's not incompetence. It's a deliberate choice.
Tharre
3 days ago
You're saving a fraction of a cent per device, while banking on customers not sending it back as defective because it didn't charge when they tried it with a random cable.
If it is a deliberate choice, it's a really, really dumb one.
myself248
3 days ago
Yup. Buy it, test it, post a review, return it. It's the only message you can send.
kakacik
3 days ago
If it works (aka enough people buy it) it aint stupid
pbhjpbhj
3 days ago
Could not disagree more.
Advertising is primarily about convincing is to buy things we don't need, don't want, or which are 'stupid' in some way.
Half empty plastic packaging, especially the sort where the company spent money to [re-]design it to deceive people - stupid. It should be illegal. Near ubiquitous.
klempner
3 days ago
One of my theories is that there is a deliberate choice happening by people who don't realize it is as simple as a couple of resistors and think they need some fancy PD negotiation chip.
Even over on r/usbchardware it is super common for people to conflate "PD" with this missing resistor issue. Part of the confusion is that the devices that people want to charge with are very likely to be PD power supplies.
mastercheif
2 days ago
It's because they take PCBs spec'ed for micro-usb and just replace the port with USB-C.
m463
3 days ago
I've read countless stories of designs sent out getting backroom-cost-reduced by removing the most ridiculously cheap parts.
pixelesque
3 days ago
Out of interest, is that all that's required for the power negotiation handshake? I would have expected more complexity?
TomWhitwell
3 days ago
Just two resistors to say ‘I am a device, give me 5V’ - you only need more negotiation = a chip - to get more than 5V
pixelesque
2 days ago
Thanks!
nsvd2
3 days ago
Complexity is cost.
skinfaxi
3 days ago
Some manufacturers don't want to do the power negotiation aspect which is the cause of this, I believe.
spaqin
3 days ago
Not even power negotiation but a simple resistor would be too costly for them to implement.
user
3 days ago
gumby
3 days ago
Thankfully I’ve never encountered one. But I’ll check before discarding if I ever get a device that comes with one, thanks!
MayeulC
3 days ago
> I wouldn’t mind a PD aware charge-only device but inquire require some MITM circuitry and I’m too lazy to make one.
Just get an USB data blocker. I bought one off the shelf at an airport for 10€. This is the "condom" you are talking about, just a small dongle. Then travel with a fully featured cable!
I also use it to charge my phone at my workplace on the docking stations (which would be a big no-no otherwise). I think our IT provides them on request too, I've seen them advertise it.
mschuster91
a day ago
> This is the "condom" you are talking about, just a small dongle.
That only works when both sides speak proper USB-C PD and not "5V or some weird-ass proprietary stuff over D+/D-".
paytonjjones
3 days ago
Someone shared this with me the other day. Haven't used it much yet but it seems like it will easily beat my previous strategy of plugging things in randomly and getting aggravated: https://www.whatcable.uk
DimmieMan
3 days ago
HDMI and display port are in a similar boat. Putting the spec on the connector would be so much help.
Even purchasing them is a nightmare these days because everything says ultra super duper fast supreme and then the fine print says it's actually just 3.0 (or doesn't say at all sometimes on online storefronts). Multiple time's I've found myself in the store flipping around the box like a rubics cube trying to find the little fine print that tells me if the cable is more expensive because it's gold plated snake oil or actually matches the higher spec I need.
Telaneo
3 days ago
Even then, I've had success with older HDMI and DP cables up to fairly high bandwidths. It's only on a longer cable and a 4K screen, as well as one 1440p screen that was just really picky for some reason, that I've had issues.
Meanwhile, the instant I want to transfer a non-trivial amount of bytes, USB 2 speeds come and make my life worse than it needs to be (or at least it did before I sat down, found decent speedy cables, bought them, and then put them in their dedicated spot for me to find the next time I need to transfer files).
Agreed on the purchase experience though. It was a pain to find decent cables, but at least it's possible to end up in a happy place.
wtallis
3 days ago
The critical difference is that USB versions keep adding new wires and active components, while the display cables largely stick to tightening the analog signal integrity requirements. Whether an old HDMI cable works for a new display is largely a question of how high the data rate is for the new resolution and refresh rate, vs how much the manufacturer of the cable overshot their analog bandwidth target.
klempner
3 days ago
USB hasn't added any active components or wires for short cables since USB C's introduction (which added emarkers and an extra pair of superspeed lanes for full featured cables)
All of the improvements in passive C cables since then are exactly the same "analog signal integrity requirements". Heck, the most common protocol for sending a display signal over USB C is literally just "send a DisplayPort signal over the superspeed lanes".
Now, USB C cables are more likely to have active retimers or redrivers in them, but a lot of that is that the highest speed signals are well above the display side. Even UHBR20/DP80 from a signaling standpoint is mostly just good old 40 gigabit Thunderbolt 3 except with everything pointed outwards (so 80 gigabit unidirectional instead of 40 gigabit bidirectional)
Tharre
3 days ago
No? Passive fully-featured USB-C cables had the same amount of wires and active components, which really is just the e-marker chip, since day one. The same 5 Gbps cable can now do 20 Gbps if the cable was made well enough.
Active cables are a different story of course, but that's the same for HDMI cables.
wtallis
3 days ago
I was including USB history before USB-C, because HDMI and DisplayPort have been around much longer than USB-C. And limiting the discussion to "fully-featured USB-C cables" is ignoring most of the real problems.
milch
3 days ago
And somehow just because the store says it's 48gpbs doesn't mean that's true either... I have a cable that is explicitly marked as 48gbps, 8k60, 4k120 compatible and yet it frequently ends up dropping the connection. Swapped to a different 48gbps cable and it works fine. Funny enough when I display the negotiated FRL speed it's only at like 27gbps, so should have plenty of headroom.
vladvasiliu
3 days ago
I think there are plenty of places that need to be up to spec and whose tolerances may add up.
I have a USB-C cable pretending to do 10 Gbps + 4K60 display port. I've used it to connect my HP laptops to my HP docking station. I have two similar laptops, 840 and 845 G8s, both with two USB-C ports each.
The 840 works as expected. The 845 only works if the cable is plugged in one specific way in one specific port. I now have a Lenovo laptop, also with two USB-C ports. I haven't tried DP-out with this computer, but Linux complains about there being issues when the dock is connected with this cable. On Windows, the whole USB stack sometimes goes foobar after a sleep/wake cycle. If, say, a mouse was initially connected, it'll keep working, but any new USB device won't, even the mouse if disconnected and reconnected. Shutting down Windows takes around 10 minutes and shows some driver issue at the end. Everything works after a reboot.
With a separate no-name docking station, everything works perfectly on the 845, but the 840 can't do 4k60 on it; it doesn't show up in the options. Haven't tried the Lenovo with this particular dock.
Both docks have DP alt mode, not DisplayLink or whatever other USB-attached GPU.
wincy
3 days ago
A huge problem for me, the only displayport 2.1a cable I’ve found that works for my RTX 5090 + 240hz uncompressed HDR 4K monitor came with the monitor. It’s amazing that it’s pushing around 80gbps through that wire and it’s an incredible visual experience.
derideor
3 days ago
Gods, this is giving me flashbacks. I had to find a usb-c to display port 1.4a cable for my Gsync Ultimate screen with 240hz. I tried out I think 10 different cables, before I found one that actually worked....
embedding-shape
3 days ago
> HDMI and display port are in a similar boat. Putting the spec on the connector would be so much help.
What if we just have different connectors for different specs? Then you'd know what supports what by what fits into the connection in the first place.
kalleboo
3 days ago
I have a box full of old SCSI cables that adapt between the various SCSI standards, it's pure hell. USB-C is a dream.
ssl-3
3 days ago
I used to have a box of SCSI cables and adapters, too. I could identify their function by sight, or even by feel if the sun got blotted out and the Earth was cooling and the only way to fix those problems was forming a correct-and-functional SCSI chain in the infinite darkness.
These days, ye olde parallel SCSI bus is gone. We have USB C, which is similar to SCSI in that the number of ways it can work is way more than 1. But because the connectors are all the same and the defacto labeling is awful, I can't necessarily identify the functions by sight or feel. If I have needs that extend very far beyond charging a phone and/or USB 2, then I don't know if any of the USB C cables that I find in a box will support those needs without testing them.
embedding-shape
3 days ago
I don't think you even have to go that far back, just USB vs USB-Micro vs USB-Mini is sufficient and maybe more commonly annoyed by people, still today :)
lynnesbian
2 days ago
There's no good reason to prevent anyone from using (say) a 1080p HDMI cable to connect a 1080p device to a 4K television, or using a 4K cable to connect a 4K device to a 1080p television.
throawayonthe
3 days ago
that sounds terrible; HDMI/DP are backwards-compatible on purpose, you can use your fancy-shmancy modern output with a now-ancient display
cindyllm
3 days ago
[dead]
mschild
3 days ago
The problem is certification. I've had lots is USB cables over the years from cheap to expensive. The only ones that reliably did what was on the tin where the USB-IF certified ones.
At this point I have a switched pretty much everything to Club3d. They used to make GPUs but are now firmly connectors only. In the past 5 years no issues with any of the cables I bought from them.
hereme888
3 days ago
Wasn't there a push at some point to enforce some sort of spec labeling for USB-C cables? Or was that a fantasy in my head?
pzmarzly
3 days ago
That's what Thunderbolt 4 and 5 cables essentially are - USB-C cables with guarantees on speeds and PD power.
qrobit
2 days ago
Arguably PCIe lanes the thunderbolt exposes are a differentiating factor, not the maxed-out specs that "plain" usb-c cables can have. Although to be fair, I've never used the PCIe lanes on thunderbolt ports.
helterskelter
3 days ago
USB3 has/had some color labeling standards, but I only remember seeing it with type A.
wongarsu
3 days ago
USB A cables and ports have the inner plastic piece color coded. White for USB 1, black for USB 2, blue for USB 3 (5 Gbit/s), teal for 3.1 (10 Gbit/s). Red or yellow for always-on
Blue is the only one that's actually endorsed by USB-IF. For the most part USB-IF would prefer if everyone just used their little icons. Luckily manufacturers have a bit more sense and all follow the same color scheme (apart from the occasional black sheep)
rsoto2
3 days ago
The last part is a bigger issue for me. I can use my usb to charge most of my tech but when it comes to the exact cable that my interface needs to use I now have like 30 cables I have to try before I know which one was the correct one.
ghaff
3 days ago
My MacBook Air is plugged in via MagSafe at home but I'd consider traveling by air with just USB-C. Probably need to throw a hub in there at that point.
greggsy
3 days ago
I went down the rabbit hole of cable testers, and concluded that that thicker and stiffer almost always meant ‘better’ support for higher speed and charge rates.
Anything braided is almost always junk.
I don’t have a requirement for anything over 90w though, so I can generally get away with using whatever I have lying around.
ploxiln
3 days ago
The high data rate cables all need to be stiffer. You can find good 100w or 240w charging cables with good flexibility, so that's a good reason to keep usb-2 data-speed but high-power charging cables.
The measure of a good high-power cable is the resistance. You can gauge it with a usb test load, typical usb power meter, and a usb-pd trigger (all can be pretty cheap, often you can find the trigger functionality combined with one of the other two). Calculate voltage drop for a given current by measuring both sides of the cable, or at least compare different cables with similar load.
But I found a "USB Cable Checker 2" by BitTradeOne which will directly measure and show the resistance in milli-ohms, very convenient! A very good cable measures 150 to 250 mOhm, the worse ones are 3 or 4 times that (at which point this device over-ranges around 1000 mOhm). You can really tell the difference with how some phones and laptops will slow their current draw after voltage droops.
angry_octet
3 days ago
Braided works fine? I have plenty of Ugreen and others from Amazon, what matters is what's inside.
somat
3 days ago
True, braided has absolutely nothing to do with the specs of the cable, but braided "feels" higher quality, so I suspect quite a few manufacturers think they can skimp on the cable quality because of that.
jambalaya8
3 days ago
It doesn't just feel like high quality... a lot of bending results in fewer cable replacements necessary, usually.
eviks
3 days ago
The labeling is already standard, but since it's an awful standard, we aren't golden
swah
3 days ago
Why not buy only 100W power and data cables?
brookst
3 days ago
I did that. I regret it. All of my cables are thick and have a large bend radius.
crooked-v
3 days ago
That would be USB4 cables. They do have the problem of being awkwardly thick and stiff if you're using them for a lot of things.
swah
2 days ago
That tells me my 100W cables must be around half that power then! I have no thick tables other than the USB (Thunderbolt?) one from the Dell dock.
rescbr
3 days ago
And then there are the crappy devices that aren't compliant with USB PD and only charge with a USB-C to USB-A cable.
zamadatix
3 days ago
My thin ones are crap but convenient, thick ones are good but... thick. Gets me by without much effort.
ludwigschubert
3 days ago
Thickness, and also cost.
throwaway219450
3 days ago
Cost, really? A 2m USB4 cable from Belkin is $20 (eg INZ004bt2MBK). You don't save much going to 4 ft, sadly.
I find their cables to be pretty good (the TB5/USB4). They're certainly cheaper than Apple's. They have a soft rubber coating (not quite silicone) and a good bend radius. Compare to the super-stiff (but good) cables that Dell provide with their monitors.
ssl-3
3 days ago
Cost, really.
I buy USB C cables cheap. The last batch were Anker B8752, came in packs of 2, were bought online as clearance items from Menards. They were delivered for free to the store that I drive past twice on most days. They work fine; no complaints.
With tax, the individual cables were $0.55 each. I can afford to stock up on cables at that price, use them whimsically, cut them up for projects, and give them away to anyone when that seems useful. I don't miss them when they get lost; I just get another one. I don't have to decide between buying a decent dinner or traveling with spares; I can just toss some into my bag.
Meanwhile: I can't afford to do those things with cables that are $20 each. That's a vastly different value proposition. If I had $20 USB C cables instead, I'd guard them the same as I do the twenty-dollar bills in my wallet.
throwaway219450
2 days ago
Arguably these are different use cases. Cheap fast-charge cables are usually limited to full speed only (linked ones included). For that reason they don’t meet my criteria, as you can’t interchange the charging cable for a data transfer cable.
I’m not advocating using USB4 cable for everything, but I also don’t want to bother testing cables when I can buy a reliably good one for twenty bucks. I’m sure a cheaper equivalent exists.
ssl-3
2 days ago
I hate every part of the concept of testing cables to find ones that work for [insert purpose].
But I love the liberty to use inexpensive not-quite-universal cables with great freedom more than I hate the former.
So since I need a bunch of USB C cables in my life, and I love using them freely, then I'm left with the following optimization: Special cables for special purposes, cheap cables for everything else, and testing them when necessary.
It's not perfect, but pragmatism seldom is. :)