Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

453 pointsposted a day ago
by vidluther

Item id: 47727960

242 Comments

varenc

18 hours ago

Extracted all the raw pardons here: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/varenc/cb2e2dacf1c92d36bc...

I wanted to do some stuff with this data so need a raw format.

(process was so easy since its included on a single page load, so I assume you don't mind! thanks for making this )

vidluther

12 hours ago

I'm thinking of exposing the sqlite db, and now possibly this JSON file as well.. I can take both during the build process and throw them up on CF. Great idea, thank you.

koolba

a day ago

Are there any longer or more generic than this:

> For any nonviolent offenses against the United States which they may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1 2014 through the date of this pardon (JAN 19, 2025).

https://pardonned.com/pardon/details/biden-family/

That’s 11+ years with no detail or description.

ceejayoz

a day ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-4311-...

> Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

Not quite as long, but much more significant. (No violence exception, the criminal was the President, and they were crimes against the entire country, not some random drug/tax charges.)

gcanyon

a day ago

Ford did real damage that day.

Pikamander2

a day ago

The real embarrassment is how little effort there's been to limit/reform the pardon system since then.

Pardons have valid uses, but it's wild that a single person can unilaterally pardon donators, family members, former presidents, etc, without needing so much as a simple majority confirmation vote in the House or Senate.

The questionable pardons that we've seen over the last few years (and the Nixon pardon) are just the tip of iceberg in terms of how badly they could be abused.

I'd imagine it won't be long until we see a president issue a preemptive pardon to themself at the end of their term, because there's nothing in the constitution that says they can't.

Ray20

a day ago

Isn't that the whole point of all these pardon things? To reduce incentives to usurp power to avoid responsibility by providing less destructive for the political system ways to avoid responsibility.

cjbgkagh

21 hours ago

Or concretely, would the Israeli wars end sooner if Netanyahu was pardoned of all crimes? Would Kim Jong Un consider giving up his position if he could be pardoned, or at least credibly believe that he could live a life in luxurious exile? I don’t know the answer to either of those questions, but I do think letting some people get away with crimes with witness immunity can make it much more difficult for criminals to organize as the optimum move is to defect before anyone else does. Which is why I think elite blackmail focuses on unforgivable deeds.

Terr_

7 hours ago

> Would Kim Jong Un consider giving up his position if he could be pardoned, or at least credibly believe that he could live a life in luxurious exile?

The kind of despot that sends assassins against people in exile is unlikely to choose it themselves.

cjbgkagh

2 hours ago

Hense the credible belief. The Russians did manage to step down from violence so it is possible.

ceejayoz

21 hours ago

They're a release valve for "the system fucked up and permitted an injustice".

Avoiding responsibility isn't the goal, and shouldn't be possible.

pianom4n

14 hours ago

> without needing so much as a simple majority confirmation vote in the House or Senate

This is intentional. Pardons are part of the checks and balances against the legislative branch.

raw_anon_1111

14 hours ago

It’s in the Constitution. There isn’t that much anyone can do.

Jedd

2 hours ago

Haven't people 'done' something about the original wording about 27 times now?

cheema33

8 hours ago

> It’s in the Constitution. There isn’t that much anyone can do.

We have modified the constitution before. It is not easy, sure. But, presidential pardons are being abused so thoroughly that it does warrant people making the effort to change things.

raw_anon_1111

2 hours ago

40% of the US like things just the way they are - didn’t you get the memo? America is “Great Again” now.

ceejayoz

14 hours ago

The pardon power is.

Presidential immunity for, say, selling a pardon is very new.

smackeyacky

5 hours ago

Hmm. I feel like it isn’t over the history of the US and there was a period where US governance tended toward an ideal but the last 50 years have reverted to the norm. E.g Oliver North

raw_anon_1111

2 hours ago

So exactly when was that? Before 50 years ago, “Separate but Equal” was the law of the land as decided by the Supreme Court, laws against interracial marriage and laws against “sodomy” (homosexuality) were also upheld by the Supreme Court.

There is absolutely no point in US history that the US was “ideal”.

My still living parents grew up in the segregated south.

smackeyacky

2 hours ago

So perhaps the US was always an unjust shithole but I prefer to think the direction it was going was positive. It certainly isn’t positive now.

jfengel

19 hours ago

Did he? It felt to me like he let us all get over re-litigating Watergate. The country had real problems. Nixon was gone and it was time to move on.

Not saying it wasn't a miscarriage of justice. Rather, that "justice" is, to me, just one part of making a good world.

Nixon-ism went on to form a truly despicable Republican party, but I think that would have happened whether Ford pardoned him or not. In fact I think pardoning him was the best chance to put that "win politics at all costs" mentality behind us. Turns out that didn't work out, but prosecuting Nixon wouldn't have made it any better.

ceejayoz

19 hours ago

We should have litigated it then. Nixon should have died in prison. It would have been a good precedent to set

bethekidyouwant

14 hours ago

Life in prison for Watergate?

Terr_

7 hours ago

1. It's good to hold people in certain positions of power to higher standards, especially when...

2. They commit an additional concurrent offense of abusing those powers and public trust for crime.

ceejayoz

14 hours ago

Yes.

If we put 3x caught pot dealers in for life, a corrupt President can certainly rot alongside them.

The more powerful you are, the more significant the penalties for abuse of that power should be, because the damage you can do is correspondingly large.

bethekidyouwant

12 hours ago

Don’t think the three strikes law you are referring to (3x nonviolent = life in prison) exists anymore. As it was generally regarded as a cruel mistake. Likewise with hanging politicians for lying…

malshe

18 hours ago

"Time to move on" is used only when someone in power is guilty. Happened with Nixon. Mitch McConnell basically said the same thing about Trump after J6 insurrection. And I think Garland believed the same thing when he did not move fast enough to investigate Trump. People believe in law and order when rich and powerful face the same consequences as the common man for their crimes committed and not when they are let off the hook.

The US has many such instances unfortunately.

jfengel

18 hours ago

I do think Garland made a massive mistake. Nixon resigned; Trump did not. Nixon largely disappeared, as most former Presidents do during their successor's term. Trump was still communicating crimes and clearly intended more.

I'm drawing a kind of fine and possibly meaningless distinction here. I think Ford made the best decision he could at the time. Garland had the benefit of hindsight: he saw the way the corruption had become far deeper than the President himself. Garland should have known better.

ceejayoz

17 hours ago

> Nixon resigned; Trump did not.

Well, yeah. They learned from Nixon!

Fox News was founded by Roger Ailes with the explicit intent to prevent another Nixon situation. Not the "criminal President" part, mind you; the punished (Republican) President part.

vidluther

a day ago

So this was the first time (i think) anyone got a preemptive pardon, the actual warrant on the DOJ website says what it says.. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/media/1385756/dl?inline

Will have to crunch through the offenses in the db and see if anything else like this shows up.

lelandfe

a day ago

Preemptive meaning they hadn't yet been convicted. Nixon was pardoned by Ford in this manner (for "all offenses against the United States" between Jan. 20, 1969—Aug. 9, 1974). Carter preemptively mass-pardoned draft dodgers, etc.

vidluther

a day ago

I did not know that. Thanks for the lesson.

throwaway85825

7 hours ago

That's when I learned you can be pardoned for future crime since the expiration was end of day. There's nothing stopping a president from signing blanket future pardons with a 100 year expiry. I'm amazed there wasnt any discussion when it happened.

whoiskevin

a day ago

Look at what the Trump administration has done with the DOJ pursuing unwarranted indictments against anyone Trump doesn't like. All getting thrown out so far. And you lead with questioning why one of his constant targets would pardon his family? The bigger question is why this isn't more outrage at the GOP attempts to find something on Biden or Clinton. They have been wasting tax dollars while Coomer "investigates" for something that he has never been able to prove. I'd have pardoned everyone around me given that constant sustained and terrible attack. All the while the Trump grift machine continues without so much as a blink.

So two wrongs have made a right in this case? I think that you should not be emotionally invested in internet people impugning the honor of one crime family over another.

kupadapuku

a day ago

Love this idea - if I were to extend it, I'd add some kind of analysis breaking down the % composition of pardons (fraud vs drug offences vs financial crime) by President to see if there's some common trend. I was a little surprised to see the Obama number quite so high, until it became apparent that the vast majority were drug offenders being pardoned

justin66

a day ago

The Obama number is also high because the designer combined Obama's first and second terms into one figure, unlike what he did with the other presidents who served two terms.

vidluther

a day ago

Hmm, I see the issue.. The DOJ website lists all of Obama's as once, so I need to modify the parser.. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-bar...

Compare that to the other list. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-recipients

darknavi

a day ago

That's probably intentional on the DOJ's part at this point.

vidluther

a day ago

not sure why you think it's intentional. But, created a github issue, and will work on that today/tonight.. yay GLM 5.1 :)

https://github.com/vidluther/pardonned/issues/23

darknavi

a day ago

I meant it's probably intentional that the data being represented differently on the DOJ's website, not your tracker website.

duskdozer

a day ago

>not sure why you think it's intentional

It's entirely on brand.

cheesemayo

13 hours ago

clinton-1 and clinton-2 are distinct. I think it's more likely collected differently. The people gathering data will change. Someone with different data standards worked there for a while.

hk1337

a day ago

Even so, it’s still higher than the other presidents listed

vidluther

a day ago

A bunch of mass commutations have occurred under Obama, Biden, and most recently under Trump, I'm working on a comparison tool, so we can visualize the change in number of pardons by president, further breakdown of composition is an interesting idea as well.

A more interesting analysis to me would not be the number pardoned, but rather the monetary value of correlated donations or direct financial interests. Pardons are one of the many services for sale, it seems.

vunderba

a day ago

Agreed. I often compare the way the current administration is wielding the pardon system to the old Catholic practice of papal indulgences.

vidluther

a day ago

that is in the works. Working on making sure the data of the pardons is correct first.

JKCalhoun

18 hours ago

If they were listed by Restitution or Fines Abandoned, there is a clear winner, ha ha.

nonameiguess

a day ago

I'm pretty sure the numbers are going up simply because 1) 90s sentencing laws got insanely strict and prisons are full of old guys serving inflated sentences, 2) drug laws eventually became more lax and people are in prison for things that aren't even criminal any more, and 3) prisons have simply run out of space and it's easier to release people than build more.

This kind of topic is bound to bring up a lot of outrage, but I'd invite people to remember it's the Marc Richs of the old buying pardons that you should be directing that toward. There are plenty of people locked up for a very long time who really don't deserve it. I recall a Chumash woman I worked with at the LA County Museum of Natural History 24 years ago. I gave her a ride home a few times and eventually realized I was taking her to a halfway house, and it came out that the FBI has busted her in the early 90s for criminal conspiracy and her only actual offense was refusing to testify against her husband, who'd been selling marijuana on their reservation under the logic that he didn't believe US law should apply because of the historical treaties about tribal land. She did 10 years in federal prison for that.

Friend, I hope you do not actually believe that man was selling dope because of his nuanced political theories.

fabianholzer

21 hours ago

Be that as it may, the jurisdiction I am living in has an explicit right to refuse to testify against a spouse. It is wild to me that one can construct a crime out of that, let alone one that warrants a decade of incarceration.

JuniperMesos

18 hours ago

Sounds completely plausible to me. Lots of people who sold marijuana in the 90s had some kind of principled objection to the laws making it illegal to do so.

none2585

a day ago

Why is that so hard to believe?

vidluther

a day ago

@nonameiguess I agree on the pardon buying, the reason why I started looking into building this was because of a video by Liz Oyer, who pointed out all the restitution and fines that were being forgiven under Trump.

That's kind of how I came upon the name for the site, I wanted to see if there is any truth to the rumors that people are selling and buying pardons. In order to investigate that, we needed a set of data to start from, in a manner that was easily queryable as opposed to what's on the DOJ website.

lateforwork

21 hours ago

Are you able to track repeat pardons of the same offender? If not you have a bug.

https://pardonned.com/pardon/details/adriana-isabel-camberos...

Adriana Camberos was in fact pardoned twice.

In 2021, convicted fraudster Adriana Camberos was freed from prison when President Trump commuted her sentence. Rather than taking advantage of that second chance, Ms. Camberos returned to crime. She was convicted again in 2024 in an unrelated fraud. In 2026, Mr. Trump pardoned her again.

Full story here: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/16/us/politics/trump-fraudst...

dylan604

11 hours ago

Commutation and Pardon are not the same thing though. If she was commuted the first time, she couldn't have been "pardoned again" as you state.

Commutation is ending any punishment for a conviction, but the conviction stands. A pardon wipes out the conviction.

millbj92

a day ago

Presidents shouldn't have the right to outright pardon people. It should have to go through some sort of body beforehand and be voted on like everything else.

gbacon

14 hours ago

The pardon power is one of many explicitly anti-democratic measures in the U.S. constitution, which makes sense because the government that it defines is a federal republic and not a democracy.

senderista

12 hours ago

The USA is a representative democracy, also known as a republic.

gbacon

10 hours ago

This claim is ahistoric. The ancient Athenians, the inventors of democracy, would reject it because they used popular elections in only a limited number of cases. Their suspicion was that popular elections were tools of oligarchy. Instead they preferred sortition, selection at random, to give rule of the people. They punished abuse of public power severely.

In the context of American thought, Federalist No. 10 goes into exacting detail as to why the proposed government was a republic and not a democracy. If a republic were merely form of democracy, then the entire document would have been a waste of time. Instead, this was a point of serious debate. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed10.asp

Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

The U.S. constitution is explicitly anti-democratic on several points. Judges are appointed rather than elected and serve for life, intentionally intended, although admittedly with limited success, to remove them from partisan pressures and the fickle passions of the day. States have unequal representation in the House. Large states and small states have equal representation in the Senate. The president is not elected by popular vote but by a select group of electors. Executive, legislative, and judicial are co-equal; one may not compel the other even with an appeal to some election. Even a unanimity of voters may not pass certain legislation.

The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.

Brown v. Board, https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep...

This compulsion to torture both language and history to apply the blessed label democracy to forms of government that do not meet the definition is puzzling. Call things what they are. Democracy is not a worthy end in itself. Majoritarianism and utilitarianism can be highly problematic and downright evil.

senderista

9 hours ago

This was a well-considered and informative response, thank you.

platz

6 hours ago

A democracy means political authority ultimately comes from the people.

salawat

21 hours ago

The Pardon is a structural check on the legislative and judiciary. It cannot be done away with safely without causing massive problems down the road. If anything, this should be a learning experience for the country not to put criminally inclined presidents in office.

cheema33

8 hours ago

> this should be a learning experience for the country not to put criminally inclined presidents in office

If the country didn't learn after the first term, what makes you think they will after the second term?

All signs indicate that the electorate is getting dumber.

dabinat

18 hours ago

The pardon has been abused by almost every president in recent history to pardon their family or associates (as far as I’m aware, Obama is the only one who didn’t, but please correct me if I’m wrong).

It’s in dire need of reform or replacement.

huhkerrf

5 hours ago

GW Bush also probably matches with Obama for your description, though he did commute (but not pardon) Cheney's Chief of Staff, which caused a permanent rift between Bush and Cheney.

He also revoked a pardon when he discovered that one had his father donate large sums to the RNC.

rootusrootus

16 hours ago

Did Biden pardon anyone that was not being floated by the incoming president for retribution?

cs702

a day ago

Thank you. Apologies in advance for nitpicking, but I think the correct spelling is "pardoned" (a quick search on Google confirms it).

SpyCoder77

a day ago

Most likely that domain was already taken.

vidluther

20 hours ago

It's a play on Donald Trump, after watching a Liz Oyer video linking a very plausible pardon for sale scheme, I wanted to initially build a site that showcased pardons just by Trump, but I realized that would be partisan and not as useful.

cs702

14 hours ago

Ah, OK. Sorry I didn't get it right away!

SpaceL10n

a day ago

Pardon me, but this is a list of pardons given to pardoned people.

ceejayoz

a day ago

I'd presumed this was a wordplay on Donald Trump.

ks2048

a day ago

Just yesterday, Trump said he's going to “pardon everyone who has come within 200 feet of the Oval.” [1] Free reign for crimes for the next 2.5 years.

Maybe removing this pardoning power could be a bipartisan goal... I guess we shouldn't hold our breath.

[1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-promises-pardon-ev...

On the bright side, if they get pardoned they can't plead the fifth and can be forced to testify against anyone not pardoned.

Unfortunately, probably not. As they could simply invoke the fifth under the claim that they might incriminate themselves under some state law.

rootusrootus

16 hours ago

They would probably need to make a convincing argument to the judge that there was a state crime they would be at risk of being charged with.

gitaarik

9 hours ago

It's not that he just said it yesterday, he's apparently already said it a few times, and yesterday there was just a news article about it.

wavint

20 hours ago

This is exactly the kind of thing the DOJ website should have provided natively. Good reminder that "public record" and "actually accessible" are very different things. Bookmarked.

siliconc0w

a day ago

We should at least ban the "preemptive" pardon if not all pardons. Pardon means forgiveness for a specific convicted crime, not a means to grant blanket immunity.

lateforwork

21 hours ago

There are two types here: (1) Pardons for crimes not yet committed. (2) Pardons for crimes committed, but not yet convicted. The first type will allow the pardoned to commit a crime in the future for free, which obviously should not be allowed. The second should be allowed if we have this pardon system at all.

The second type became a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney from a vengeful administration.

elAhmo

20 hours ago

The notion itself that someone needs to be protected by a 'vengeful administration', while judicial system should be not politically affiliated is telling how broken the whole separation of powers is. Everyone who is a ruling party puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle.

foobarchu

18 hours ago

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle.

There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

frumplestlatz

17 hours ago

Hilariously (to me, anyway) — I genuinely don’t know which party you’re talking about. It could truly be either, depending entirely on which party you support.

LocalH

15 hours ago

Waiting for the day when both the Democrats and Republicans are so very obviously shitty to even the most uninformed voter that we get some new thought in office instead of two sides of the same coin that are both beholden to capital and to foreign interests

Onawa

15 hours ago

As long as our voting system is "first past the post", it will be nigh impossible for a third party to make any significant headway. IMO Citizens United and first past the post are the two main issues holding the US back from any kind of significant overhaul or change.

wredcoll

12 hours ago

First past the post doesn't meaningfull affect primaries and that's where major change could happen.

Hell, that's what trump did. He was a third outside party and won the republican primary.

Bernie sanders came fairly close to doing the same thing.

wredcoll

12 hours ago

That's sort of like saying you're not sure if the earth is round or not-- says much more about you and your understanding than anything else.

mattmaroon

17 hours ago

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that.

And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

rootusrootus

16 hours ago

> they would not have happened if he had not become a politician

That is a little vague. Some of his crimes only happened because he became a politician, so of course the prosecution would be seen as political in that sense. What I would like to know is which crimes did he commit that were only prosecuted because he was a politician, which would otherwise have been ignored?

Telemakhos

15 hours ago

One seems to be New York v. Trump, which was a civil lawsuit instead of criminal. The main charge in the case was overstatement of real estate values to secure loans, yet the banks lending the money (mainly Deutsche Bank, if I remember correctly) were sophisticated lenders who were capable of assessing those estimates and the risk of lending. The banks not only did not lose money from the transactions but in fact happily made money, and they had no complaint about the deals they'd made with Trump. These were all private deals between sophisticated parties who knew what they were doing, and everyone made money. So, no bank suffered harm leading to the charge and no bank lodged any complaint against Trump—the prosecutor went looking for something with which to charge him, and this was the best she could find.

robot-wrangler

14 hours ago

> main charge in the case was overstatement of real estate values to secure loans > The banks not only did not lose money from the transactions but in fact happily made money, and they had no complaint about the deals

The first part is either a crime, or it is not, regardless of the second? Suppose I falsely say I am worth millions, and then actually win the lottery. It being true later doesn't change whether it was lie originally.

Telemakhos

13 hours ago

That's exactly why my first point was that it was a civil lawsuit brought by the Attorney General, not a criminal case: the underlying overstatement of real estate values was not charged as the crime of fraud, which would have required more proof including proof of intent and actual harm—of which the former would have been hard to prove, and the latter did not exist. The District Attorney (who handles criminal matters like fraud) decided there was no criminal case, but the Attorney General took it as a civil matter despite there being no criminal case and nobody unhappy about the deals. It was purely a political prosecution.

wredcoll

12 hours ago

Crimes that are not known about are frequently not punished.

Rubbing it in everyone's face is not a great idea.

But, and this is the much more important point you are missing, is the difference between prosecuted for a crime you comitted regardless of how people learnes about it, and using completely unfounded accusations in order to use the prosecution itself as a punishment.

Trump has been prosecuted, several times, for actual crimes he committed. Hilary clinton as an example, had to deal with the obviously fake prosecution attempts of benghazi and email servers.

This is a gigantic and meaningful difference.

Have other people done some of these trump crimes and not gotten prosecuted? Sure, but that's not exactly a good thing.

Directing the doj to manufacture crimes in order to prosecute is much much worse.

mattmaroon

8 hours ago

A prosecution can be political even if a crime or tort was committed. Our government prosecutes only a small percent of committed crimes.

If Donald Trump had not run for President, or even had just been a normal President, or maybe even if he’d have done everything he did except for cause January 6, he absolutely would never have been prosecuted for this. The justice system was weaponized against him, even if he was actually guilty, which he surely was.

philipallstar

15 hours ago

The main crime seems to have been leaving the Democrat party as it raced leftwards.

rootusrootus

15 hours ago

Your comment seems to be a roundabout way of illustrating the concept of relativity.

lambda

17 hours ago

You may be right that they were political in that sense.

But also, they probably should have happened were he not a politician. He's been committing fraud and other white collar crimes for quite a while. Unfortunately, we go far too easy on white collar crime in this country. And he's a master of plausible deniability, where he effectively asks other people to commit crimes on his behalf, but in a plausibly deniable way with no written trail.

Spooky23

16 hours ago

Well, yeah. When you turn public office into an ATM for your friends and family, one would expect that.

tredre3

16 hours ago

> I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician

His wife in the 1990s accused him of rape and intended to sue him as part of the divorce proceedings. She changed her words when she obtained a generous divorce settlement, moving from outright rape to "not in the criminal sense, I just felt violated".

That was over 20 years before Trump gained political relevance.

miltonlost

17 hours ago

Which of the prosecutions were political hit jobs? Enumerate which of the federal and state crimes that Trump was convicted were actually politcal hit jobs.

Your definition of political ("not happening if he wasn't a politician") is not what that definition is.

wredcoll

12 hours ago

Yeah, the (untrue accusation) is the important part of the political prosecution phrase.

Departed7405

18 hours ago

(2) Do you mean not yet charged or not yet convicted ?

Because I can get you would want to shield some people from persecutions (just or unjust) from your successor, but I see no reason why you would be able to pardon someone charged but waiting for trial. This makes a mockery of justice, the public can't discover the facts but more importantly: why pardon someone that is still considered innocent ?

prepend

17 hours ago

Because the trial may take 5 years and consume lots of resources.

If they’ll be pardoned anyway, why?

rapnie

15 hours ago

(3) Morally highly questionable pardons of convicted criminals who committed high crimes. Preferably questioned by a well-functioning ethics commission for things like, well, conflicts of interest, corruption, and the like.

dboreham

18 hours ago

> a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney

IANACL but surely there are other ways to protect people from politically motivated prosecutions? E.g. jail anybody attempting to direct the DOJ for personal or political reasons?

WillPostForFood

17 hours ago

The DOJ is part of the executive - so it is fiction that it was ever apolitical. RFK was JFKs brother, do you think they weren't coordinating DOJ's investigations into political opponents? (e.g. Jimmy Hoffa)

Congress created the DOJ, It is their job to police it. They can defund or even eliminate it. That's the check on it.

comrh

15 hours ago

It all comes back to needing to check the expanding power of the Executive.

EgregiousCube

14 hours ago

Yup. This is why reining in Congress’s authority to delegate is so important.

rootusrootus

16 hours ago

> jail anybody attempting to direct the DOJ for personal or political reasons?

When that person is the president and the Supreme Court has said they are immune from prosecution, you need something else to be a check.

dlev_pika

17 hours ago

Yeah, but it seems those other protections would/could possibly be a coin toss (eg a successful defense in a trial) and quite costly even if they never get to that stage, and you need a bit more certainty than that. Otherwise help can only come from those willing to become martyrs

frumplestlatz

17 hours ago

> The second type became a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney from a vengeful administration.

Was it, though? It struck me as more empty political theater around an event largely defined by political theater.

lateforwork

16 hours ago

You are asking if it was necessary to protect Liz Cheney? Have you not seen the lengths to which Trump is going to punish Comey? Trump even fired Bondi because she was ineffective in targeting his opponents.

gbacon

12 hours ago

Case law agrees with your reading only in part, namely that the pardon power may be exercised at any time after its commission, that is, not preemptive as in being granted before the act being pardoned has taken place.

However, the broader context reads

The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject to legislative control.

Ex parte Garland, 371 U.S. 333, 380 (1866) https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep...

Changing it would require not a mere legislative act but a constitutional amendment.

To the executive alone is intrusted the power of pardon; and it is granted without limit.

United States v. Klein, 80 U.S. 128, 147 (1871) https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep...

LocalH

20 hours ago

We should go as far as to preemptively ban and sanction any POTUS who says "I'm going to pardon these people before I leave office".

There's no reason to say that unless you know they're actively committing federal crimes in the present day.

torben-friis

19 hours ago

>There's no reason to say that unless you know they're actively committing federal crimes in the present day.

There are reasons. For example, you feel the justice system is going to be misused against them. Protection against future witch hunts basically.

I don't think this is what's happening here, and trump is on record talking very explicitly about weaponising the state against his enemies himself, but it's probably an excuse that will be used.

sanex

19 hours ago

That's what Biden did for Hunter right?

whattheheckheck

18 hours ago

Which side is likely to be petty and target family members in bad faith?

LocalH

15 hours ago

The side of money

dlev_pika

16 hours ago

Crazy that this is literally one of the lines Trump ran on - weaponizing the DOJ.

flowerlad

20 hours ago

Not true. Liz Cheney hasn’t committed any crimes (as far as we know).

There is no universe where any pardon is abolished unless there is a massive political shakeup. The entrenched political class is terrified of endangering their power and privilege even if individual players are ready to do it.

bloppe

21 hours ago

I've often wondered what would happen if a president explicitly offers to pardon anybody who murders members of Congress. Would they settle on reigning in the pardon power with an amendment?

We're sort of already there. A lot of the Jan 6 rioters were openly trying to murder congressmen. The fact they weren't successful isn't super reassuring.

9dev

19 hours ago

Nothing would happen, because SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function, which would be the case here. It would literally be possible for the president to order congress killed, offer an automatic pardon to anyone carrying out this order, and establish a monarchy.

This single ruling will haunt the United States for the rest of its existence.

mandeepj

18 hours ago

>SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function

That ruling is very broad and vague! I don't think killing Congress is part of POTUS's official job description.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from...

solid_fuel

17 hours ago

Neither is fomenting a coup. And yet...

bloppe

13 hours ago

Trump was never found immune for that. We was just reelected before the prosecution could run it's course, and the DOJ never prosecutes a sitting president.

Presumably the suit could resume once Trump steps down, but it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition

solid_fuel

12 hours ago

> it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition

Oh absolutely not. Any democratic successor that did such a thing would face such an immense backlash from the democratic and centrist voting base that it would effectively throw their entire term away. No, most of the democrats see the pardoning of Nixon as a grave error and want to see justice for what has been done this term.

mandeepj

12 hours ago

> offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition

Biden’s term just started fine without any transition

brandensilva

15 hours ago

That's the thing though. Where do you draw the line from the hitman and the one who ordered it legally in their official capacity.

mandeepj

14 hours ago

When you've a SCOTUS that can rule: you can't forgive student debt loans but rule an as*hole has a presidential immunity, then we have a problem.

edmundsauto

18 hours ago

Isn’t the definition of official duties vague and left to the courts?

bloppe

13 hours ago

My wondering is more about how Congress would react, because something like this could conceivably bring together the 75% consensus required for a constitutional amendment.

And I think even this supreme Court would agree that murdering Congress doesn't count as an official act.

kakacik

18 hours ago

It will be interesting to watch what comes next, if there will be next. But people die of natural causes and otherwise anyway.

Will it be the same a-lot-of-empty-talk-from-democrats like after first trump's term, or actually some concrete action? Clearly if next president would be democrat he can do some nice revenge and rebalance, maybe petty but maybe necessary. I would expect republicans do the usual crappy move of sticking with theirs regardless of crimes committed, any actual morals are an afterthought.

Its so weird to watch from outside, illogical, deeply flawed, unfair, and pretty weak system when it comes to handling unscrupulous sociopaths.

All bad is good for some things in hindsight, world desperately needs more decoupling from US. Petrodollars, swift and so on. Compared to this, judging by pure actions, chinese may seem saint in comparison

hattmall

18 hours ago

The Democrats literally tried like 6 different ways to get Trump in jail, and arrested and jailed many of his supporters and even some of his administration. I highly doubt that the majority of the voting public which elected Trump will sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution to the current administration.

solid_fuel

17 hours ago

> sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution

This is genuinely hilarious. I guess you haven't been paying attention but "sitting idle during injustice" is all that Trump supporters do.

No, his base is already collapsing. He overextended with Iran, sent gas prices up, and as a direct result has finally started to bleed support from the know-nothings. I doubt Trump himself will ever face justice for his many crimes - he is likely to die of old age first - but the rest of the administration? Knives are out. They'll be back in prison just like happened in 2020 and 2021, and all those "dedicated supporters" will do nothing because the people who form this administration are petty, uninteresting people who were specifically chosen because they are not popular.

jmye

13 hours ago

> I highly doubt that the majority of the voting public which elected Trump will sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution to the current administration.

Is this a threat, or…?

“Let our guy do whatever he wants or we’ll try to murder Congress and fuck up the economy and start some more wars”?

“Don’t you dare jail us for insurrection or we’ll insurrect even harder”?

What a stupid, silly post.

aexer0e

20 hours ago

Pardons only stop the federal government from prosecuting someone, the states would still go after those individuals

pfannkuchen

16 hours ago

> were openly trying to murder congressmen

Is there evidence of this?

This is one of those things where I’d love to get on board with the popular view but I haven’t found evidence that anything beyond a sit in was intended and the arguments seem to be floating in air if you follow them down to their root. But I haven’t done that much research so I’d appreciate if you could share what makes you think this, thanks!

jibal

17 hours ago

Congress can propose amendments but it takes 3/4 of the states to ratify them.

didgetmaster

20 hours ago

Like most political arguments, if you listen carefully; those who advocate for or against pardons, only want them to go one way.

A pardon is only a protection against a 'vengeful administration' if that administration is not your party.

Pardons are only a miscarriage of justice if those pardoned don't share your ideology.

jfengel

19 hours ago

My (leftist) opinion is that we don't give enough pardons. By the time people get out of prison, their lives are pretty much wrecked. We should have a lot more clemency and compassion. That's what the pardon is for.

If that means a ton of literal insurrectionists go free, that's fine with me. We elected someone precisely to do that. It's on the voters if we elected someone who was literally treasonous himself.

I hope the insurrectionists take the opportunity to get on with their lives. I gather that quite a few have already been banned for other crimes, and that's too bad.

I don't want prison to be vengeance. I want prison to make us all safer. I'd like the President to take a lot of leeway in finding people who are going to be productive citizens if they were given that gift.

eszed

18 hours ago

You would probably consider me to your right, but I'm right there with you. Prison should be protective: we lock up people from whom the rest of us will not be safe unless they are segregated. Ideally it is also rehabilitatative, and once (if!) prisoners will be safe and productive members of society there is no point to keeping them locked up.

If there are other methods short of prison that can render law-breakers harmless - such as restrictions on certain activities and occupations - then those should be pursued first.

The ghost of this philosophy, however attenuated, can be seen in systems of pardon and parole.

I acknowledge that a desire for retribution - to punish the evil-doer; make them suffer for what they've done - is a strong impulse (I feel it myself!), deeply imbedded in our tribal psyches, but it should be fought, not indulged.

This seems to me to be the only moral basis for a system of justice and incarceration, though I have no idea how to nudge a society towards this model. Some northern European countries approach it.

HWR_14

18 hours ago

You sound like you are advocating for commutation, not pardons. Commutation lowers the penalty given to a criminal by executive decree (which the president can also do) A pardon makes it so the conviction never happened.

Spooky23

16 hours ago

No, it doesn’t erase the conviction, it “forgives” you from the perspective of the government. Commutation ends the punitive aspect of the conviction.

I have a somewhat distant relative who was pardoned after being over-prosecuted by a zealous DA. They were a victim of a felony who did something in response that could have been charged as anything from a citation/violation to a felony, the DA’s discretion was to choose the harshest possible resolution.

They still have a hard time getting work because the conviction must be reported.

HWR_14

12 hours ago

Thanks, I had misunderstood. It eliminates the legal consequences of conviction (unlike commutation) which is similar in a lot of ways, but it doesn't erase the conviction from the records.

krapp

19 hours ago

I'm a leftist, and a Democrat by necessity (not by choice) and I would be fine if the power of pardon was removed for Presidents who share my ideology. I would rather have working separation of powers and reform the justice system than give one person carte blanche power to nullify it based on their whim.

Not everyone making a political argument is engaging in cynical tribalism. Believe it or not, some people do actually believe in things.

didgetmaster

16 hours ago

Who exactly 'forced' you to become a Democrat? If that were real, I'm pretty sure it would have made the news.

bdangubic

15 hours ago

when you have only two choices and you have to be quite insane to choose one of them, you are, for all intents and purposes, forced to choose the other side (same argument works for left and right if you hear someone say they are forced to be what they are politically)

krapp

15 hours ago

I never claimed that anyone forced me to become a Democrat.

I support them at the national level because they're the least evil of the two and exactly two relevant options available, and the one which at least gives lip service to progressive values. But that is still like supporting Mussolini over Hitler. Locally I vote third party when I have a chance.

And I live in Texas so none of my votes matter anyway.

didgetmaster

15 hours ago

You claimed that you had no choice but to become a Democrat. If that wasn't caused by coercion, then it certainly was a choice.

If I claimed that I had no choice but to become a Republican, I would be justifiably laughed at (even by fellow Republicans). Political views and affiliations are certainly choices.

Anyone can claim that their opinion is the only sane one.

krapp

14 hours ago

>You claimed that you had no choice but to become a Democrat. If that wasn't caused by coercion, then it certainly was a choice.

I explained my choice. Choosing the lesser evil is a choice. I don't think anyone in this thread besides you is getting hung up on this, and I don't know why you're being so aggressively pedantic. It's weird.

actionfromafar

19 hours ago

That’s what ypu tell yourself to feel better. But it’s not true.

didgetmaster

18 hours ago

Do you know ANYONE who thinks the same way about Biden's pardons as they do about Trump's?

I certainly don't.

hattmall

18 hours ago

I think they are both generally ok, but also somewhat sketchy. I don't see them as much different from Clinton's pardons, Fords or Andrew Johnson's Christmas day pardons for confederate soldiers.

What big differences do you see?

Spooky23

16 hours ago

People in the conservative ecosystem are very much up in arms about the pardon of Hunter Biden.

Like most things in MAGAland, these matters are framed in a certain way, and all nuance is eliminated. The irony of being upset about Biden while being a cheerleader for Don Jr is lost.

didgetmaster

15 hours ago

I think you totally proved my point. Both conservatives and liberals will almost always look at pardons by a president from their own party much differently than those by a president from the other party.

Spooky23

14 hours ago

I don’t think so. I was pretty much raised in a family that was staunch Democrats and in a few cases even party officials at the local level.

I was pretty young and not really caring, but I recall them being unhappy about Clinton’s last minute pardons as they were obviously compromised. I recall conversations about the Gerald Ford pardon of Nixon that happened around the context of Scooter Libby and there was an acceptance that that was more of the grist of politics than anything.

I don’t recall any president in my memory proposing pardons in advance to people blatantly breaking the law. When I was younger, republicans were almost solemnly committed to the “rule of law”. That changed in the last 20 years. This president is very tellingly an admirer of Andrew Jackson, who was in most measurement a disaster, as is this admin.

Personally, I live my life fairly “conservatively”, but have more progressive politics with some “exceptions” for the modern sense of the word. I respect those who disagree with my point of view, but am not tolerant of disdain for the law, basic fairness and society.

senderista

12 hours ago

I definitely remember some Democrats being upset about the Marc Rich pardon.

actionfromafar

16 hours ago

If we are wishing changes in law, I wish an impeachment would automatically trigger a new election.

didgetmaster

16 hours ago

That's all we need. Every election followed by a dozen impeachment trials initiated by the losing party.

giancarlostoro

20 hours ago

I agree. I dont care if “my guy” or “your guy” does it, it should not be allowed.

jibal

18 hours ago

We "should" do many things that aren't feasible, like this or anything else that requires a Constitutional amendment.

dlev_pika

18 hours ago

Modifying pardon powers requires a constitutional amendment? That’s wild.

jibal

17 hours ago

It's wild that anyone doesn't know that. It's less surprising than the fact that disallowing someone with 34 felony convictions from being President would also require a Constitutional amendment. Both the pardon power and the qualifications for President are specified by the Constitution, so of course the Constitution must be amended to change them.

dlev_pika

15 hours ago

> It's wild that anyone doesn't know that.

Lots of assumptions here, friend

2OEH8eoCRo0

a day ago

The preemptive pardon is ridiculous. Pardon for what? What if it comes out someone is a child cannibal? Are they pardoned for that?

conception

a day ago

There’s no /s so I’m assuming you didn’t know that child cannibalism was in the Epstein files https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/fact-check-breaking-down...

So to answer your question, seems like Yes, pardons for all!

fwipsy

a day ago

From the article you linked, child sacrifice allegations came from an anonymous FBI interview in 2019 and are not confirmed by any credible evidence. There are no cannibalism allegations; the word "cannibal" only appears in innocuous contexts.

So child sacrifice and cannibalism are only technically "in the Epstein files;" there's very little evidence that anyone did those things. For other readers, if you hadn't heard about this, that's probably why.

royaltjames

a day ago

Little evidence that I was abused as a child too, must not have happened.

fwipsy

9 minutes ago

I'm sorry that you experienced that. I understand the importance of listening to abuse victims. However, if child sacrifice did happen, it seems unlikely to ever be proven. I do not think that the case against Epstein or his associates is strengthened by assuming every accusation is true. For people who are not thinking about the subject carefully, learning that some accusations are inflated may cast others into doubt. What is provable is heinous enough.

OtomotO

21 hours ago

I am deeply sorry for your experience and I totally understand that it triggers something, but let's be ice cold logical for a moment.

If there is no evidence of a crime, you cannot prosecute someone in a constitutional democracy.

If you could you could just make up any claims and get rid of people you simply despise.

Which happens in various regimes...

So although it's certainly a possibility that such cases happened, as long as there is no evidence that they happened, they didn't for all legal matters.

gbacon

14 hours ago

We are discussing the pardon power, an explicitly anti-democratic measure that is unilateral and unreviewable. The constitution defines a federal republic, not a democracy.

senderista

12 hours ago

Not everything originally in the Constitution is a good idea, or at least isn't anymore. That's why it specifies an amendment process.

harimau777

18 hours ago

As long as that ban doesn't go into effect until after the next non-Republican administration. We need to be able to right the scales after MAGA's abuse of power.

jmyeet

21 hours ago

So I have mixed feeling on this.

I'm thinking of Carter fulfilling a campaign pledge to pardon draft dodgers. Whether you support that or not, he did what he said he was going to do and I'm sure only some of them had actually been charged in any way. I think that's a perfectly fine use for the pardon power.

Some will point to the Hunter Biden pardon. So two things can be true at once here: it was absolutely political prosecution AND Joe Biden was completely selfish with his action. At least do something for the people by, say, pardoning a whole bunch of low level drug offenders and decriminalize cannabis at the Federal level. But no, it was completely self-serving but his brain was pretty much gone by this point.

Here's the problem: Federal prosecutors have a ton of power. Conviction rates are 98-99%. But it goes beyond that. Federal prosecutors will intentionally bankrupt you to force you to take a plea. They might charge you with 15 felonies, 12 of which are basically bogus. You still have to defend those bogus felonies and that costs you money. And as soon as you run out of money, they'll offer you a plea where you're looking at 25 years on the 3 remaining felonies or you can just take 10.

The power imbalance is insane and the wealthy are essentially immune. If a US attorney decides to make an example of you, you're going to have a bad time, regardless of the facts.

Millions were spent dredging up some crimes for Hunter Biden and pretty much all they could come up with was doing crack and filling out a form incorrectly. Do you think anyone else would get that level of attention?

A very recent example of this is the Karen Read trial or, as I call it, the most expensive DUI prosecution in history. If you didn't follow the case, don't worry, there'll be any number of true crime documentaries. Millions were spent prosecuting Karen Read for killing JOhn O'Keefe with a completely ridiculous theory of the case and all sorts of evidence that went missing (including police officers disposing of their cell phones on a military base the day before an electronics preservation order was issued).

I don't know what we do about this power imbalance and selective prosecution.

mullingitover

21 hours ago

> Federal prosecutors have a ton of power. Conviction rates are 98-99%.

This always gets thrown around, but the fact is they should be that high. Prosecutors shouldn't bring cases unless they have evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and DOJ prosectors don't (normally) screw around.

When you see lower rates of conviction, as in the current ethically bankrupt administration, it's often malicious prosecution, aka "You'll beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

Spooky23

16 hours ago

No, the original poster is 100% correct and if anything understating the issue.

US Attorneys are enormously powerful and because federal law is so vague in many ways, attracting their attention is a kiss of death. Most of federal defense work is highly technical and more about managing pleas and the mandatory sentencing guidelines. They agree to punishment and shape the plea deal to some crime that hits the number.

This weird technical approach to “justice” results in bad outcomes in other ways. The famously self-promoting Preet Bharara ended up letting a bunch of people free who quite obviously were taking bribes and fixing bids go free by abusing the “Honest Services” laws, which were subsequently thrown out on appeal.

The current administration is different - their weaponization of the system means that they literally can’t appoint qualified attorneys, who fear disbarment for what they will be directed to do. AUSAs have quit en masse and they are forced to hire toadies from 3rd tier law schools like Liberty University and make weird interim appointments. It’s a great time to be a criminal.

jmyeet

20 hours ago

I would be fine if high conviction rates reflected prosecutor's only bringing good cases. It doesn't. It reflects the odds being stacked against you and it being so expensive and high risk to defend yourself.

This high cost and power imbalance is used to force people into plea deals for crimes they didn't commit.

Let me give you an example: 924C enhancements [1]. This is where certain drug or violent crimes being committed with a firearm can add years or even decades to a sentence automatically.

Let's just say you live in a concealed carry state and you have a weapon on you. You're walking home and the police pick you up. You match the description of one of two people who were smoking drugs in an alley as per a 911 call. The other person was already picked up by police. He was unarmed. His story was that you sold him the drugs. He also claims you brandished a pistol.

Was there a drug transaction? Or was this simply two people smoking together? The other person had a small quantity of drugs on him when apprehended.

A 911 call mentioned seeing a weapon drawn. It was dark. You can go through versions of this scenario where you were the other person or it was a case of mistaken identity. Eitehr is bad for you.

What if the other person sold you the drugs and made up this story to avoid a distribution charge? What if as a teenager you had a minor possession charge? What if prosecutors believe the other person and make a deal for a reduced sentence in exchange for testimony?

You have a gun and now 2 witnesses who say you "brandished" the gun. So whatever charge you end up with the "brandishing a firearm" part (under 924(c)) adds 7 years to your sentence to be served consecutively. And they've stopped you with a firearm.

So what was a "he said, she said" situation has now turned into a situation where you could be facing 10 years in jail and defending against that could well cost you $200,000+, which you don't have. Or you can take this plea for 2 years in jail. What do you do?

[1]: https://www.nyccriminalattorneys.com/18-u-s-c-%C2%A7-924c-th...

mullingitover

19 hours ago

> I would be fine if high conviction rates reflected prosecutor's only bringing good cases. It doesn't.

There is a huge amount of hand-waving following this assertion without any evidence to back up the claim.

I'm not saying abuse of process doesn't happen, but this is just saying it can and then spelling out a big hypothetical without any proof that this practice is rampant.

jmyeet

18 hours ago

It's hard to find quantative data but one clear example is DNA-based exoneration by the Innocence Project [1]

> Among the many insights drawn from these wrongful convictions is the realization that a guilty plea is not an uncommon outcome for innocent people who have been charged with a crime: 11 percent of the DNA exonerees recorded by the Innocence Project pleaded guilty

There's a thing called the Trial Penalty [2]. ~98% of charges result in a guilty plea. If all 100% went to trial the system would collapse. As such, prosecutors coerce plea deals [3]. But the Trial Penalty works pretty much like the example described: if you go to trial, you will be overcharged and face, say, 10-30+ years in jail. Or you can take a plea for 2 years.

This Trial Penalty is made worse with mandatory minimums and add-on charges like I mentioned (ie 924(c)).

This effect has been modeled with maths and game theory to show hoow extreme outcomes cause people to plead guilty more often [4].

This is a well-known problem in criminal justice. You're showing either a complete lack of imagination or simply don't think this will ever be used against you.

[1]: https://www.innocenceproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/...

[2]: https://www.tisonlawgroup.com/is-your-sixth-amendment-right-...

[3]: https://innocenceproject.org/coerced-pleas/

[4]: http://www.bernardosilveira.net/resources/Plea_bargain_Novem...

mullingitover

17 hours ago

> There's a thing called the Trial Penalty [2]. ~98% of charges result in a guilty plea.

The gist of this argument is that there are huge numbers of innocent people railroaded into prison, but in the bigger picture crime is wildly under-punished.

More than half of murderers go free.

More than 98% of rapists never spend a day in prison.

At the end of the day this is all a question of where you stand on Blackstone’s Ratio. In the US, even with the rate of wrongful conviction we may have, we stand solidly opposed to zealous pursuit of justice for the victims of crimes, on the argument that an innocent person might be punished.

jmyeet

15 hours ago

> ... but in the bigger picture crime is wildly under-punished.

Um, citation needed.

> More than half of murderers go free.

The burden is on the state to prove their case not on the accused to prove their innocence. If this completely unsubstantiated statistic is true (again, citation needed) why is the state so bad at making their cases?

> More than 98% of rapists never spend a day in prison.

Yes, rape is under-reported, under-charged and rarely results in a conviction. This is true. Society engages in a whole lot of victim blaming with sex crimes.

> we stand solidly opposed to zealous pursuit of justice for the victims of crimes

What? The US has 4% of the world's population but 25% of the world's prisoners. If over-policing and wildly capricious sentences (eg 10+ years for cannabis possession) worked, this would be the safest country on earth.

Why isn't it?

tzs

15 hours ago

> At least do something for the people by, say, pardoning a whole bunch of low level drug offenders and decriminalize cannabis at the Federal level

In 2022 he pardoned ~6500 people with federal convictions for simple possession of marijuana. That didn't actually release anyone from jail because it turned out everyone in jail with a simple possession conviction was also in there for other crimes but for those for whom it was their only drug offense (both currently in prison or not) it wiped it off their record which would restore eligibility for various things that drug offenders are barred from.

Near the end of his term he commuted the sentences of around 2500 non-violent drug offenders.

jimkleiber

21 hours ago

I like the concept. I'd love to see more types of data available, especially maybe race, age, connection to the president or their families, donations that the pardoned/commuted people have given and to whom, and more.

I'd find that fascinating for seeing deeper patterns.

nottorp

3 hours ago

Who owns the domain with the correct spelling? :)

sensarts

12 hours ago

This is a great example of how a simple, focused tool can make public data easily accessible. Good job.

KingOfCoders

6 hours ago

The benefits of an absolute monarch. Glad we don't have that in a democracy.

spuz

20 hours ago

This is the kind of data I would like to see on ourworldindata.org. They have good tools for visualising data and comparing between countries.

jsiepkes

a day ago

> Pardons granted by Donald J. Trump (Second Term) Not Including the January 6th Pardons

Why not include the January 6th pardons?

vidluther

a day ago

That disclaimer is there for now to make it clear that we're not showing that data yet. I need to figure out how to show the mass commutations done by Biden as well.

Working on a comparison tool, so we can see # of pardons over admins, it seems the number of pardons has been going up each administration.

totetsu

7 hours ago

Can someone overlay this with recorded political donations?

mpassman

a day ago

Nice. But why show Restitution Abandoned etc. if you have no way to calculate it?

vidluther

a day ago

i am calculating it if it's available in the sentence details. If the sentence details don't have a fine or restitution then we can't calculate it.

elicash

a day ago

Would love if you can track this more deeply and sort/filter/search through restitutions and fines. The ones you know about, that is.

soumyaskartha

a day ago

This kind of civic data should have been easily searchable for years. The fact that someone had to build it says a lot about how accessible government records actually are.

digdugdirk

a day ago

Your numbers seem a bit off on the second Trump term. Trevor Milton was on the hook for over half a billion dollars of restitution alone.

vidluther

a day ago

Thanks for the heads up on that.. there's a lot of massaging/cross checking that still needs to be done. Right now the numbers are based purely on what the sentence is described on the DOJ website.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-grants-president-don...

cmd-f trevor milton .. if the text for the sentence column doesn't say anything about a fine or restitution the system is not going to be able to figure that out.

The numbers for the prison time reduced is also technically incorrect, Ross Ulbricht, Rod Blagojevich and many others had already served many years in prison, so technically we should not count that as time reduced.

xrd

a day ago

Really terrific. Such fun to see overviews and then dig into the details to see how assumptions about each situation were inaccurate at first glance.

vunderba

a day ago

Thanks for this. As engineers, I think it’s natural for us to look at things like executive orders and pardons, tools that seemingly have no real restrictions or caps, and immediately see them as open to exploitation by bad actors.

The pardon system in particular needs a serious overhaul. For every case where a pardon is used to correct an "unjust ruling", it swings just as easily in the opposite direction. Frankly I have more faith in a decision that goes through the proper judicial process than in one made unilaterally by a single person with zero oversight. There's a reason it's been historically called the "royal pardon".

We need a combination of:

- hard caps on the maximum number of pardons a president can issue per term

- congressional review before those pardons take effect

hk1337

a day ago

I would have thought a lot of the drug offense pardons by Obama would have been for marijuana but looking at the first few pages, they’re not.

> 118 of 2,791 GRANTS

Only 118 list marijuana in the pardon text

dopidopHN2

a day ago

Land of the free ( white collard criminals )

shimman

a day ago

Reminder that the pardon is a vestigial leftover from monarchism. The idea that one single person can go "nuh uh" in a democratic country is just another massive failure of the US constitution, a legal document written to suppress the will of the people and allow for minority rule but too sacrosanct to change for "reasons" that all seem to only benefit a small minority of people.

Relegate pardon powers to only amount to commutations, at the bare minimum.

Oh fun fact, Alexander Hamilton thought monarchies were the best form of government.

dbg31415

10 hours ago

Gonna make for a depressing read.

DM70

19 hours ago

May I ask you if your project does what nobody else does in USA?

vidluther

12 hours ago

are you asking me? if so.. I don't think I understand your question.

JKCalhoun

18 hours ago

The numbers suggest that 94% of all Fines Abandoned were just from Trump's first term.

fgkuescvricky

21 hours ago

Have you created a linked data SPARQL endpoint?

vidluther

12 hours ago

I don't know what SPARQL is.. so no :)

dboreham

18 hours ago

I've yet to see any justification (not even a bogus one) for why the pardon power needs to exist in the modern world. It seems to have been invented originally as a counterbalance against corrupt or crazy judges. We have other ways to deal with that problem now.

spiderfarmer

4 hours ago

Needs a filter to see how much they paid to Trump.

KingOfCoders

6 hours ago

Democrats in the US ignore the destruction of democracy by their own presidents, Clinton only came into the office to grift, no interest in the gravitas at all, and Obama, OMG 1904 pardons. Trump is an extension of what Clinton and Obama did, more extreme, more grift, more corruption, more executive powers, no guardrails, but not new.

Presidential pardons should be banned, period. All presidential pardons are political in nature, and therefore not based on justice.

JuniperMesos

18 hours ago

This is equally true of the criminal justice process that sentences people to crimes at all.

andrewstuart

a day ago

Pardon power can serve no reasonable goal in a functioning democracy except to subvert justice.

glerk

a day ago

https://pardonned.com/search/?president=obama-2&categories=d...

I haven’t looked into each case here, but I assume these are a bunch of non-violent drug offenders serving years and decade-long sentences. I see 30 years for “possession with intent to distribute”. That’s just crazy.

When the justice system is clearly broken, it’s ok to subvert it.

layer8

a day ago

The parent’s wording does actually imply that subverting justice is a reasonable goal.

ceejayoz

a day ago

There's some value to "the President can correct some wrongs". There are genuine miscarriages of justice sometimes and it's kinda nice to have a release valve for them.

The recent presidential immunity decision just made the downsides way more likely.

fernmyth

a day ago

It’s an alternative to coups and civil wars. The deal made in private conversations is something like “Give up power peacefully. Everybody gets pardoned and goes home to their families. Nobody needs to do anything crazy or violent out of desperation to avoid prison.”

salawat

20 hours ago

Justice is a moving target mate. Should people who had a few pounds of reefer still be serving 30 year sentences? 90's adults would probably say yes. Today? Not so much. Part of being human is being open to the fact you were wrong. The Pardon is the release valve that lets the Chief Executive remove the targets the System has painted on people's backs in response to a clear shift in public conscience. The public in recent history, threw all prudence to the wind and put a con man in office. Surprise, surprise when a con man uses the office to do what con men do.