Is liberal democracy in terminal decline?

63 pointsposted 15 days ago
by alephnerd

21 Comments

rawgabbit

15 days ago

In the US, we are witnessing one of the flaws of the Constitution. The Executive branch, which is supposed to carry out the laws, is ignoring the law. Both Congress and the Supreme Court are acquiescing. The only people who are pushing back are the lower courts (which again are ignored by the Executive branch). This is dysfunction on a national level.

mstank

15 days ago

The pendulum is swinging back slightly, but I wouldn’t pronounce it dead just yet.

We are seeing a decline of American hegemony, accelerated by this current regime. And the ascendancy of a non-democratic superpower.

However, the largest chunk of GDP and growth still sits firmly in democratic countries and very consequential American elections are happening this year, and in 2028.

The real question is, will Europe find its spine?

thomassmith65

15 days ago

Social media incentivizes small 'creators' to espouse outrageous views that mainstream media does not, and that seem vitally important. An easy way to pump out a stream of unacceptable, important-sounding views is to (a) be outrageously wrong or offensive, and (b) claim everything mainstream is part of an evil plan to ruin the world.

This leads to constant messaging against whatever the underpinnings of a society happen to be.

So liberal democracy is in decline where it has been healthiest.

I have hope that liberal democracy will rise in regions where it is scarce. The Middle East first, then perhaps China, which we have all written off based on a couple decades (the blink of an eye, in the long run)

wat10000

15 days ago

Democracy has been a pretty consistent desire among large numbers of people for a long time now. I don't see that ending any time soon. I do think things will get worse before they get better, because we have a hard time learning from history. The reasons for wanting democracy are too abstract right now. Once enough people get smacked in the face by them and learn why democracy is good, it will turn around. Unfortunately, those of us who do understand history have to learn this lesson alongside them.

_DeadFred_

15 days ago

In the US most Americans just don't matter to the economy like they once did (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43298862)

We have reached not just Dead internet theory, but also Dead Civilization theory. The top feel like they don't need half of civilization, and in fact half of civilization are now a weight/burden on society.

Liberal democracy was able to take power from authority because it was supported by enough people with enough power but that dynamic no longer exists. Authority has finally reached a point where that power has/is being taken back because it no longer needs those people's labor/participation/existence/buy in in society.

mindcrime

15 days ago

Terminal? Hard to be sure, but I think there are glimmers of hope that the answer is "no" in the short-term.

Corollary question: should it be? Eg, is "liberal democracy" really the best we can possibly do? My take is that the long-term goal should be a society based on Voluntaryism with no use of force for anything other than self-defense. But if we ever get there, it won't be soon, and in the near-term the collapse of liberal democracy is trending towards the full-on advent of fascism and totalitarianism.

So at least for now, I believe liberal democracy is something worth fighting to protect.

LightBug1

15 days ago

Terminal velocity achieved ...

The only question is whether it'll hit the ground before the next US election.

Any emergency 'chute's available?

OutOfHere

15 days ago

Liberal democracy was in practice never about the people. Its existence made the rich richer and the poor poorer. The poor would be better off being more enterprising and putting their savings in inflation-resistant assets, e.g. gold, stock indexes, and major cryptocurrencies, rather than relying on liberal democracy to safeguard them. Don't call it investing because it should be the default vehicle. The rich of course don't want the poor to do anything of the sort, so that the poor can continue to remain exploited.

Havoc

15 days ago

Unfortunately I suspect yes - for practical reasons not directly linked to demographics

It’s hard to beat the raw power of central control when you need something specific done sharpish at any cost.

See chinas quest for catching up with asml. Asml arose under the western order certainly but I don’t think the western order could will it into existence the way an autocratic government can. And that i think is going to become a big problem as progress speeds up and more of these pivotal junctures come up in quick succession

ultropolis

15 days ago

A trick I learned recently that you can apply here is the following:

If a headline asks a yes/no question, the answer is "no".

Yizahi

15 days ago

Yes it is, partly because it was never democratic, and more like a an elective oligarchy. While people's and oligarchy intentions roughly aligned, we thought that "yay, democracy is working!". But as soon as the intentions diverged, this social order is slowly being exposed for what it is.

Why is it not democratic, you may ask? Because not a single one of us across the world had ever voted for or against any of the laws we must comply with (except for some lucky blokes in Switzerland). Laws were written and approved by a small number of individuals and not people.

roromainmain

15 days ago

I can’t access the article… but honestly, I’ve been asking myself the same question for the past ten years. The best answer I’ve found is: not yet — but the current backlash and drift toward authoritarianism in many democracies is actually the sign that something real is shifting. In a way, the situation looks weirdly similar to Europe before WWII. Democracies were starting to integrate some of the socialist ideas that had emerged in the 19th century, and the dominant forces of capitalism pushed back hard. They let fascists rise, sometimes even supported them. That led to a war, millions of deaths, and then a massive change of mindset: after WWII, every European country implemented strong social protection and regulation. Today, the shift is less about social security and more about cultural transformation — the end of patriarchy, and with it the decline of imperialism and Western dominance. Those foundations started being seriously questioned in the 60s. The dominant forces are resisting because, deep down, they’ve already lost — there’s no going back. But as always, they can still cause immense damage on the way out. And yes, if they refuse to let go peacefully, it could lead to conflict, and a lot of casualties. But after, democracy will make a come back. I may be too optimist.

user

15 days ago

[deleted]

keernan

15 days ago

1. Has there ever been a society - regardless of political type - in which the 'power elite' did not define the rules of society to their benefit and to the detriment of the non-elite?

2. As for the US Constitution: (a) It's original design limited participation to (i) white (ii) men (iii) who owned land (wealth). I would argue not much has changed in 250 years. How many billionaires can pick up the telephone and speak directly to the President or Senator or Governor that same day? And how many of you can do the same?

(b) The design of the US Constitution did not provide SCOTUS or CONGRESS with any mechanism to control an Executive who appointed officials swearing allegiance to the President ( the man ) as opposed to the President ( the office ).

Once the President successfully appoints heads of every department, especially FBI, DOJ, and military who are loyalists to the MAN, then there is absolutely nothing SCOTUS can do to force the President to comply with its rulings; nor is there anything the Senate can do when the President laughs when the convict the President of Articles of Impeachment.

user

15 days ago

[deleted]

vfclists

15 days ago

How can liberal democracy not be in decline if it can only be discussed or seen behind a paywall which costs £59 a month to get over?

Are the voters a joke to the people who write such articles?

Am I a joke to them?

Is there a browser addon which can mark links on HN as behind paywalls?

Some sub-reddits tag them as such.

paganel

15 days ago

Hopefully, yes.

Also hilarious how even on this downward trajectory the liberal order's main propaganda entities (like the FT here) run with geeky and nerdy stuff like charts (?!), that will show 'em!! A true sign that they know nothing of the real (ideological world). Just the other day they (the FT, that is) were also running with that mantra of "Trump is invading Greenland only on account of him getting messed up by the Mercator map projection!!", which was straight West Wing [1 ]heavy-liberal territory. Like I've said, they know nothing of the real world.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLqC3FNNOaI