> Come to think of it, if there is a latching door on the detergent tray, your dishwasher definitely has a prewash cycle, or else they’d skip the door entirely

Alec also mentions this briefly in the linked video; if manufacturers could avoid the cost of a latching mechanism, they absolutely would. Its presence means a pre-wash cycle exists.

I find his videos to have quite a bit of hand waving and poor methodology together with being overly verbose.

For example, he kept on saying that pods are not better in previous videos, but in the study he presented in this video, it showed that pods are performing significantly better than powders in every category. The study (which was not linked and I couldn't find it) was sponsored by a powder maker which the video recommends, but even this study showed just on par results with pods.

I still rinse dishes because it keeps the trap from getting absolutely filthy in one load.

it's inverted. the closing soap compartment is the washing step, the pre-wash tray contents can just be dumped.

video can explain anything, but reality is different.

my dishwasher manual breaks down each program. pre-wash exists only in half of programs

Yeah, I think one has to understand the man to really get something useful of what he says. He is kind of a cheap man and much of what he says really applies to low-end devices. Some expensive devices may have similar problems to the cheaper stuff but really if you buy a premium device you won't have many of the problem he talk about.

I know this type of person very well. They always have some reductionist approach to things, where for them, the expensive stuff is mostly marketing with added bells-and-whistles and largely works the same. My experience is that this isn't quite right. Some brands do have a premium that is more related to style/status but if you buy some seriously engineered stuff it will work much better most of the time.

>This dishwasher also came with a box of Miele pods (and they encourage you to buy more).

This is because the profit margin on them is much, much fatter. Miele still makes powder if you want to use theirs.

Nope, Bosch 800 series specifically do not have an indentation, and also state in their manual that they do not require any prewash detergent and the prewash does not run with any detergent.

It always seems a shame when naturally clever people are assumed to have autism, or when their cleverness is attributed to it. Why can't someone just be intelligent without labels?

it doesnt feel nice to try to dismiss someone's interests and hobbies as "they're autistic"

Reductive and inaccurate.

> share one 20A residential circuit

15, dishwasher manufacturers can't assume the dishwasher is on a 20.

in traditional times it was customary to buy a few outfits high quality clothing that would last, and wear the same clothes for a week at a time, and then really boil them clean. This is the European market.

post world war 2 consumer choice culture in the US led to people buying cheaper clothing but varying their outfits every day and cleaning them (with copious availability of water) with less intensity.

once these patterns are established in the market, they become more like customary and it's what consumers expect of their appliances, detergents, etc.

3) manufacturers placing energy star improvement quotas over safety in programming the cycles.

Not true. Dishwashers get cold very often.

Hot water from the house supply isn't that hot though? My dishwasher gets MUCH hotter than the hot water supply... and I don't think the heater is "tiny" I think it's a rather substantial element. The dishwasher also doesn't need to heat up a "bulk" amount of water, just the amount of water used for washing the current load of dishes.

Also, I’m way too lazy to look it up right now, but I’m quite certain I’ve heard of dishwashers that run the hot water for a little bit before letting it fill the basin. Like, I’m pretty sure this sort of thing is commonplace.

It’s not like the engineers for heaterless dishwashers are just too stupid to realize there’s an obvious workaround for having to purge the line before filling the basin. Especially when the performance is so much measurably better when you do it.

Like I said though, it’s a guess. It’s also possible efficiency certifications ding you for the excess water use.

Most of the new ones (at least higher end ones?) have heat pumps that heat water and handle drying. They are efficient enough to work on 110V, and the trade off is longer cycle times. Bonus: no more plastic utensils melting because they fell to the bottom resistive heating elements.

The video explains that dishwashers sold in 110V countries often has a hot water connection as it's too slow heating water off a 110V/10A circuit so it is more efficent to utilise the hot water pipes. However we live in NZ, a 230V country so we get dishwashers that can heat water from cold fine off a 230V/10A circuit so no need for a hot water connection.

If you check the manual you might find that you can hook the single inlet pipe up to the hot water tap.

My parents used to have an old cooker which rather than having a spark button, had individual pilot lights for all of the hob burners and the grill. My mother was forever worried about whether one of the damn things had gone out (which they occasionally did). I think if you switched the supply off, switched it on again, and someone has left their house for a week, it might build up a significant amount of gas. Although they are supposed to be small enough not to. Presumably there were hardly any of those left now, but they can't assume they're all gone.

> Whenever natural gas supply is turned off in the US, for any reason, only the gas company can turn it back on

Doesn't match my experience. My colleagues and I are able to turn on or off the gas supply to our houses at will.

>Whenever natural gas supply is turned off in the US, for any reason, only the gas company can turn it back on

I had a seismic shutoff installed at my gas meter and the plumber who installed it had no problem turning off the gas and turning it back on when he was done. (and then turning it off again to demonstrate to me how it worked).

He re-lit the water heater pilot light before he left. The gas company was not involved at all.

As an American expat, I will use this story to explain some of the indignities of living in America. Thank you for sharing.

> And this is how I ended up showering at work for three days that week after not having had one over the weekend.

I discovered the unexpected value of a YMCA membership when my hot water was offline for a while.

Sorry how is this story relevant?

The problem is that the first few litres of the water coming from the hot water pipe may be cold or warm. Therefore adding a resistive element is a better solution to guarantee a specific temperature.

Gas (especially just in time) still works well for water heating even if you can use heat pumps for everything else. No sure when that will flip, I assume it will eventually.

I recall reading, I think in a comment here long ago, of someone who did that. He had just enough items to fill one dishwasher. By having two he could use one for storage and one for cleaning, with the two alternating roles.

I.e., he started off with all his things clean and in dishwasher A. As he used things he pulled them from A and put them in B. When B is nearly full and A is nearly empty, run B, move any remaining items from A to B. Then B becomes the storage space and A becomes the place to put the dirty items.

Yes, i do. The idea was that it keeps the kitchen cleaner, because there's no more gross kitchenware that didn't made it into the dishwasher. Always wanted that. Then saw it in practice at a startup once, and then finally gave it a go.

There will be instances when both are just full and you still end up visible filth, but even then, you at least have to go just once into clear-out mode. It works out great so far. If it didn't... well, I guess I'd need to buy a third one ;-)

Just in case one of them asks for a divorce

Does Gemini really does a good job at detecting promotional video ? For example, that one video discussed in this post is one huge promotion for his friend product but it is actually built in a way that clearly appeals to nerdy audience. The video boasts the rigorous testing, provides scientific explanations, nerdy jokes, etc. What Gemini says about that ?

Good to know! Thanks.

I've been trying paper for about 2 years now and its been great. Works about the same, feels the same, no pods. Its quite a nice experience.

Dunno what you have available, but since watching his video on powders I've always just broken off part of the powder pods we use.

We have the Finish tabs with the red ball in the middle (that's what our Costco carries, so that's what we use). I just break off on one side of the red ball and then crumble that up for the pre-wash. It usually breaks off super easily into three parts: The remaining tab with the red ball attached and two smaller pieces. If you rub the smaller pieces against each other, they break up super easily into powdered form. No cutting required.

[dead]

I've used a washing machine like this. For the feature to be useful, it has to be correctly implemented. Unfortunately, all r&d budget apparently, goes into developing vendor's mobile application and wifi connectivity, not on basic mechanics inside.

That’s how my Miele washing machine works and I love it.

You put two large detergent containers in (one for whites and one for colours) and then forget about them. The machine reminds you when you’re running low and allows you to reorder more thru the app.

I have no idea if it’s cheaper or not, but anecdotally they feel like they last a long time. Ultimately, I don’t care, because of the convenience and the fact I know the machine is working out the correct dose per wash (the machine has a touchscreen interface that allows you to state what’s in the wash: T-shirts, denim, towels, etc. the level of soiling, etc. Then it works out the temperature, duration, drying time, and correct detergent type and dosage)

Miele has home dishwashers that do this now. But like all things consumer, it's a proprietary system that's designed to keep you locked into a subscription relationship with the company.

I had that on a GE Profile from I think 1999 if I remember right. It was pretty nice. I think it's still a feature on some of them.

That dishwasher was great and lasted over 20 years. The previous owners had definitely abused it and never cleaned it. I repaired it and had about the best dishwasher for a few more years. Eventually the main logic board went out (can't blame it too much, had electrical issues that killed a few things) and a replacement board was going to cost a few hundred dollars in parts even from questionable third party sellers. Seemed to be a good bit to sink on what was a highly abused >20 year old washing machine at the time.

I was almost tempted into buying an all-in-one unit that washes and dries. Only a few brands are releasing these heat-pump based models currently and it doesn't seem quite ready for mainstream release. But the LG model I found did have the ability to preload it with detergent and run up to 60 cycles before filling again. I almost bought it just for that feature. But went with the older more reliable model instead. Maybe in 10 years after this washing machine dies the feature will be more prevalent and reliable.

https://www.lg.com/us/washcombo-all-in-one

I think long term, having two "all-in-one" combo washer and driers would make way more sense than separate washing and drying units. But the price for functionality just isn't there yet.

My Samsung bespoke combo washer dryer has that feature. It uses less detergent than we are used to so my wife uses pods, but I think this is better un general since the clothes come out clean even if they don’t smell like detergent. So not only do I not need to load detergent, I don’t need to transfer to the dryer. Still have to load sanitizer in unfortunately.

I am already putting items into the dishwasher, so the marginal effort for me to add the dishwasher tab is very low.

https://www.mieleusa.com/c/powerdisk-automatic-dishwasher-de...

Samsung has some that do this, but their appliances have some other big downsides

miele dishwashers as mentioned below.

LG washing machines. And I think Miele washing machines as well

amount of water used in washing cycle is +/- same, not dependent on size of load. reducing amount of powder will create weaker concentration and reduce cleaning capabilities of machine/detergent.

in reality, reducing amount of powder won't change much most of the time, because majority of cleaning happens due to physical action of (hot) water. there were multiple times when I was forgetting to put detergent and dishes went out clean. it mostly makes difference for some very dry/backed on stuff.

Or just, you know, wait till the machine is filled before running it. If that takes too long you can just run a soaking cycle midway through.

I have a pet theory this is due to a wet pod tray: the pod's film partially melts and sticks to the tray before it's released. I made a habit of wiping the tray dry with a piece of paper before loading the pod and this stopped happening to me.

I'm convinced pods broke my dishwasher. I switched to powder years ago and haven't had a problem since.

Interesting enough, where I live we also can have domestic workers without being filthy rich. But we've seen the exactly opposite problem: people trust a single product for everything and will use the least amount of it because "it's good enough". The current person working at our place uses dish detergent to clean the entire house unless we tell her everyday to not do it. The previous one used bleach, and ruined most of our bath and hand towels.

And lo, there is verily even more information presented in the video than this thread has yet revealed. For what Alec says in the video is that this purge-the-cold-water advice is specific to North America, and he even explains the reasons why!

   the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher

As heated air drying (in the US) has fallen out of favor, hot rinse water will help things dry faster. To that end my Bosch dishwasher has an option to increase the temperature of the rinse water.

That's rather odd? The whole point of a dishwasher, I assume, is to save a lot of time and water, and then to get clean dishes. There's nothing unusual at all about spending a bit of time to learn how to use a tool to save time later, like learning an IDE or what have you. Of course, if you're already getting clean dishes then I suppose no further tool learning is needed for you.

That probably just means you’re using your machine badly.

The more common solution I've seen is asking the person sending the link for clarification.

While attempting to write my own script, I found that there are many websites which offer YouTube summaries, which are probably an easier solution. For example (not affiliated) https://www.easemate.ai/video-summary It even allows you to ask questions about the transcript.

I also found a Python library for fetching YouTube video transcripts, but some issue mentioned that they got banned, so out of caution, I implemented my summary script as a JavaScript bookmarklet instead. It will probably break on the next YouTube update, so I am not sure how useful it is. Also, you have to set your own API key (and maybe URL). I used Groq (not to be confused with Grok), because it is free and very fast.

    javascript:(function(){
    var GROQ_API_KEY = "YOUR_API_KEY_HERE";

    var btn = [...document.querySelectorAll('button')].find(b => b.textContent.trim() === 'Show transcript');
    btn.click();

    function checkTranscriptAvailable(){
        var transcript = document.querySelector('[target-id="engagement-panel-searchable-transcript"]').innerText;
        console.log("transcript:", transcript.slice(0, 50));
        var length = transcript.replace(/\s/g, '').length;
        if (length > 100){
            fetch("https://api.groq.com/openai/v1/chat/completions", {
              method: "POST",
              headers: {
                "Authorization": "Bearer " + GROQ_API_KEY,
                "Content-Type": "application/json"
              },
              body: JSON.stringify({
                "model": "openai/gpt-oss-120b",
                "messages": [
                  {
                    "role": "user",
                    "content": [
                      {
                        "type": "text",
                        "text": "Briefly summarize this transcript:\n\n" + transcript,
                      },
                    ]
                  }
                ]
              })
            })
                .then(res => res.json())
                .then(data => alert(data.choices[0].message.content))
                .catch(err => alert(err));
        }else{
            setTimeout(checkTranscriptAvailable, 1000);
        }
    };

    checkTranscriptAvailable();

    })();

This is the script that uses yt-dlp to print the English transcript. I pipe it to Simon Willison's `llm` tool.

https://gist.github.com/abdusco/118a6a3ab41a0a1d2a5f8813f789...

https://github.com/simonw/llm

    > youtube_transcript.py 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAX2_mPr9W8' | llm 'give me keypoints, ignore promotions'
    Certainly! Here are the key points from the detailed discussion about dishwasher detergents, washing cycles, and hot water use:
    
    1. **Dishwasher Detergent Basics:**
       - Most dishwashers have a detergent dispenser designed to release detergent in two doses: a smaller pre-wash dose and a larger main wash dose.
       - The pre-wash helps remove easily dissolvable food residues before the main wash.
       - Oils and fats do not dissolve well in plain water; putting some detergent in the pre-wash water helps emulsify and remove these soils early.
    
    2. **Why Use Loose Powder Detergents:**
       - Loose powders allow flexible dosing: users can adjust detergent amounts based on load dirtiness.
       - Pre-dosed pods force a single, fixed dose which can be excessive or insufficient depending on the wash.
       - The dispenser’s design supports splitting detergent dosing; powders are better aligned with this system than pods.
    
       ... you get the point

Kagi has this as a website https://kagi.com/summarizer and as a browser extension. Really handy for deciding if a long video is worth watching.

If you want to build a quick one, it's yt-dlp to download the video, whisper to transcribe the audio, and Claude code have it summarize the transcript.

I'm not at my computer RN but I'll share it later.

yeah but it doesn't tell you the point.

i don't have 40 minutes to watch a long-form video essay about detergent.

give me the gist, which based on context is that powder works better and is cheaper

clickbait gotta bait

Not very well, it's always too vague. Good opportunity to compete with a browser extension or service!

Yeah, I have very soft water. I tried using a liquid rinse aid when I switched from a name brand pod with a rinse aid to the cheap Kirkland pods. The rinse aid made things worse and I did end up with a residue on my glassware.

It’s cheap enough to try it and see if it helps but don’t feel obligated to use it if it doesn’t.

Say more! Are you just squirting lemon juice into the bottle? How much? How often are you refilling the rinse aid reservoir?

Household usage levels are probably fine [1]. That being said, we don't use rinse aid and I don't see any issues with glasses. I can see how it could be a problem in areas with harder water.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

Are you a chemist, an investor, a pro-additive experiments?

Why?

"This isn't a scam" means that rinse aid works. It doesn't imply anything regarding its safety.

There is some research (see my other comment) hinting that industrial level use can be harmful (households dilution levels are probably fine).

I think this is the research that suggests possible damage - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

I don't understand where you are getting "cause gut issues" from. Hopefully not some random person on the Internet spewing nonsense without any sources.

There are other studies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

That Sainsburys one is the one I have now but it wasn't showing up on its website for the longest time. Thankfully, that changed.

I did find the Waitrose one and it was going to be my next buy, but my local didn't have it and I never got around to ordering it before Sainsburys came back in stock. Interesting that it's now cheaper, maybe I'll check again...

The tabs I had to buy for a while could be broken fairly easy by hand. This 1/3 2/3 worked noticeably better than just putting the whole tab into the dispenser.

I thought about it but wasn't sure if it would really do the trick. I kinda don't wanna buy more detergent right now because I'm stuck with a lot of pods

Tables are much more expensive, and their quality varies afaik. And out of the 5 different dishwashers I've used, none had a pre-wash dispenser, only one single dispenser. But it doesn't really matter, powder cleans up everything perfectly, on any program and without additional powder in the main area of the machince. The only time when dishes were dirty after the wash was when the impeller had some gunk mechanically blocking the holes for the water. So, I see no reason to buy overpriced detergents.

I think it’s a rite of passage to do this at least once.

I bet they had a really clean kitchen floor afterwards!

> gasless MIG

I hate when people use that term the G in MIG stands for Gas. If you are not running a Gas (argon, CO2...) it isn't Mig. There are flux core wires that are commonly used and called Mig, but they are not Mig (unless there is also a gas flow - this isn't uncommon) and have very different weld properties.

Counter-example... some people have no idea that SLS is causing these issues and just chalk it up to how things are.

I recently switched to an SLS free toothpaste but it was really hard to track one down that still had flouride in it!

Don’t worry about that canary falling over , he’s just hypersensitive

Even if it doesn't have a specific prewash section you can literally just toss a bit of powder in to the machine, since the prewash happens first.

More interesting would be a list of machines not designed for two-stage release. They probably exist, but it'll be a much smaller list.

All of them

My understanding is that energy efficiency requirements prevent this. Dishwashers have a fixed energy budget they are allowed to expend, which may not be enough to heat cold tap water up to the optimal cleaning temp.

They do in some markets and don't in others. In particular, in USA, regular 110v circuits don't carry enough power for water heating.

This is what most (all?) of machines do. Heat water when they need hot water

I have a bad habit of not fully drying my hands when retrieving pods. The pods all clump together if they get wet. This is one of the many reasons I prefer powder.

> They just work, every single time.

The point of this series of videos is that for many people they don't.

Except if you get even a drop of water in the pod storage bin and they fuse together and you have to carefully rip them apart.

And I totally get the appeal of paying for “convenience”! But saving a few seconds a week? Very weak argument i’m afraid.

So do a pod and detergent powder? No thanks.

By „make coffee“ I meant „use the coffee maker as usual, without ground beans but with detergent in the water“. The fume/steam is surely not healthy if inhaled directly and up close, but then again your dishwasher vents those same fumes into your kitchen untreated in much larger quantities than a 200ml coffee maker possibly can.

I regularly use things to clean that I am more worried about, such as bleach, acetone, turpentine and the likes…

This is basically what I do. Have never needed to clean out a dishwasher filter and it’s never had a foul smell from food bits. I have a garbage disposal to use for that, or prefer to toss larger waste pieces in the trash directly. Also plates are the low hanging fruit where a simple scrape off is usually enough. Pots, pans, and baking dishes often have more burnt on crustyness that I scrub at for a few seconds and that I just assume would be difficult for the dishwasher to handle or would stick in the filter.

Maybe this is why the quick wash is always enough for my dishes.

You mean you don't eat all your food? Disgraceful! Children starving in Africa etc.

Anything sounds good if you oversell its advantages and undersell its disadvantages.

I find pods messy (they can stick together and break open) and powder simpler. Powder I store in a glass container and pour directly from that; never have to touch it directly. Occasionally I’ll have to push a bit of lose powder into the sink during transfer from box to container.

Powder is cheaper. Sure I save pennies per load but I don’t know why I would waste pennies.

Pods are overdosed for my washer and water and leave residue. I don’t want to use more of them. Powder lets me dose a load with much more precision anyway.

Clumping can be avoided with a sealed container , like an old milk jug . And keeping bulk in a dry place , only keeping a couple weeks supply in the kitchen

Not in any sort of meaningful way no. Pockets dissolving seconds later by random chance does not do anything in an hour long wash cycle.

I can't remember if it was main video or second channel one, in which Alec states with confidence that big brands make powder worse on purpose to push their higher margin pods.

The opinion is based on his experience (horrible residue left by big-name powder in contrast to store-branded great-value powders being problem-free) and lab results.

How is fiddling a thing out of a box more convenient than putting a spoon in a box? I don't get that argument.

Spoken like someone who assumes incorrect things.