bovermyer
7 hours ago
Good progress this month! Good to see it running on Windows now, even if I don't use Windows myself anymore. That'll help boost adoption once it releases.
mindcrash
6 hours ago
True open source web browsers on Windows, and MacOS, are dead in the water.
This is because of the lack of Widevine CDM, and the majority of people wanting to stream stuff using services like Tidal, Netflix and Spotify.
They will also want to use a single browser for everything, which in practice means Edge, Chrome, Firefox or Safari.
Ladybird will very likely not have access to Widevine, because of the cost, requirements, and Google as gatekeeper. Some developers of small opensource Chromium/Electron based browsers also earlier tried and Google simply said no.
And even if they have reverse engineered the CDM extension (which will make Widevine work, not unlike a small hack/workaround with regard to Chromium and Chromium forks) it will not work because all browsers using Widevine on those two platforms require something called VMP (Verified Media Path) which is, as far as I understand, a certificate and verification library supplied by Widevine embedded within the browser.
Without VMP embedded in the browser streaming from popular commercial providers such as Netflix will not work on Windows and MacOS, even when the Widevine extension is in fact active.
Believe me, I checked.
IMO all of this is not only set in motion to (try to) protect from piracy, but also to kill any serious competition from small parties like LadyBird, and to keep the browser market firmly in the hands of the likes of Microsoft, Apple and Google. Because who will use a browser in 2025 unable to stream content, or without hacks at 720p maximum? (looking at you, Brave and Netflix)
This also means that browsers like Brave, Vivaldi and Firefox are in fact not true opensource browsers because their respective public repositories do not contain the assets needed for VMP signing.
On another note, at this moment the majority of people should be glad that browsers with corporate backing and enough income like Brave (whatever you might think of Brendan Eich's ideas), Vivaldi and Firefox exist because without them you would have no serious choice on Windows or MacOS at all.
jeroenhd
4 hours ago
You can build Firefox without Widevine if you don't like DRM. The browser itself will work just fine. A few specific websites won't, by design: they do not want to work on computers that will let you save the high-res video they serve to a file.
Without EME, we'd still be stuck with Silverlight or ActiveX DRM in these browsers. There are browsers without Widevine that stream just fine; they use FairPlay and PlayReady instead. The current situation is still a significant improvement over the days when "free" web browsers were still a thing.
This isn't a web browser problem, it's a video streaming problem. As it turns out, the vast majority of people care more about streaming Netflix than they do about software freedom.
The minority that wants a truly open browser can buy DVDs and Blurays, or pirate the content they want to stream.
If Ladybird is willing to agree to the right terms and sign the right paperwork, I'm sure they'd get Widevine support eventually, but obviously they wouldn't be able to publish the source code for any of it.
binary132
6 hours ago
I don’t know about you but I am perfectly content to use a free browser and open either a nonfree browser or an app if I want to use a feature that is not available in my preferred software.
RamRodification
6 hours ago
I don't know about you but I am very sad that I can't really recommend a browser not made by evil-mega-corp (or their associates) to friends and family because for some stupid reason that I can't explain to them, they aren't allowed to view high quality streaming video with it.
binary132
3 hours ago
“It doesn’t work with Netflix, but I just open Chrome when I want that”
is that really so hard?
DRM is not a good thing
Santosh83
5 hours ago
How is withholding Widevine CDM not anti-competitive behaviour?
martini333
5 hours ago
@EU
morcus
3 hours ago
I don't know the usage numbers so I might be way off, but with Smart TVs becoming a more common thing I can't remember the last time I tried to stream video on my computer.
Am I in the minority here? Do we have stats on what the breakdown of streaming traffic is by Mobile / TV / Desktop?
doubled112
3 hours ago
I'm another that tends to stream directly on a TV. Or a tablet.
It's very possible it's a workaround to the streaming on PC situation though.
nurumaik
6 hours ago
Well, they want me to view free movies if I use free browser, then
teddyh
5 hours ago
You mean gratis movies using a libre browser. They are not the same concept.
muyuu
4 hours ago
> This is because of the lack of Widevine CDM, and the majority of people wanting to stream stuff using services like Tidal, Netflix and Spotify.
Well, there's a niche.
Personally I have zero interest in Netflix and Spotify and I don't even know what Tidal is.
gertop
3 hours ago
Wanting to stream multimedia content from commercial streaming services is definitely not a "niche."
muyuu
3 hours ago
never claimed such thing
people who are not interested in these things, or can use separate systems for those things, are a viable niche for a pure-OSS distribution of Ladybird
dorfsmay
5 hours ago
Does Widevine CDM work on Firefox on Linux?
If so, why would Google allow this but not for other OSS browsers?
tmikaeld
5 hours ago
It doesn't, this is also the reason that streamers like Nvidia Shield or Apple TV are the only two choices if you want to view 4K content at all.
mistercheph
6 hours ago
yeah, that's a problem for me like losing access to E! and TLC when getting rid of tv service box, legacy media platforms bye bye, hello copyright violation in sweet sweet high bitrate 4k
throwaway34564
6 hours ago
If they'd just have used an Electron stack from the get-go, it would have been cross platform already
nechuchelo
6 hours ago
If they were happy with using an existing browser engine, they wouldn't be writing one from scratch
throwaway34564
5 hours ago
I agree, they can write it from scratch and compile to web-assembly. That way they can use Electron for the UI layer. </s> (apparently needed)
thiht
3 hours ago
That makes no sense, they're writing a browser engine...