Small outdated 26 inch wheels, ugly, looks very heavy.

Promo pictures look cringe with metrosexuals riding them on a gravel road.

Cool.

Typical 2020s design trying to appeal to the smartphone/sedentary crowd who know nothing about bikes.

For this kind of money you can get a really nice eMTB like the Mith from UNNO which has 29 inch wheels, weighs 47 lbs (21.3kg) and is a much more capable bike with a 800Wh battery.

https://www.unno.com/en-us/mith

If you don't want classic transmission there are other eMTBs with a Pinion gearbox:

https://www.nicolai-bicycles.com/bikes-e-mtb-en

I tend to agree with comments that point out that 'modern' e-bikes are really electric motor cycles or the original "MoPed" from the 60's. And they have the same appeal, relatively cheap to operate, fit in between regulatory categories, don't require a garage to store, Etc. E-scooters aren't much better (just worse kinematics). That said, I never thought the Segway was ever going to be more than a 'niche' product whereas I had already lived in a city[1] with thousands of mopeds. To the extent they are embraced by urban planners with reduced parking mandates and their own roadways I think they are a net win for cities, when they terrorize pedestrians on sidewalks, not so much.

[1] Brussels.

So the interesting thing about this is the ... peddle-by-wire drivetrain? So unlike a normal e-bike, when its battery dies it turns into a stationary bike.

I love ebikes and generally like what Rivian does, but in a very competitive market it's hard to see the appeal of this.

808Wh battery and 100 miles of range. These two numbers track with each other and are roughly believable.

OTOH, with a battery this big, a generator powered by the pedals, and regen braking this thing has to be heavy. I'd expect it to weigh at least 80 lbs. More likely 100. The fact that their "specs" say nothing about weight suggests they're embarrassed about the weight.

$4500 is ten or more of my homebrew 750 watt electric mountain bike originally built in 2004. I just repowered with LiFePO4 after 10 years in storage and the new batteries really pull. It has a front hub motor with a throttle control limited to 20 mph. My commute is 10 miles, 6 on a dedicated bike path. Life is good.

As someone who enjoys bicycling every now and then, I suspect a 40 kg Also TM-B hurling up a tight bicycle lane at 50 km/h can be somewhat hazardous to people on regular (unpowered and light) bicycles—not unlike a motorcycle, but obviously to a lesser degree.

For comparison, Seoul bike lanes allow pedal-assist bikes that are limited to 25 km/h and weigh no more than 30 kg (battery included), which seems pretty generous.

Pedaling to make energy to store in a battery that then runs an electric motor seems to get around the best thing about bicycles: their efficiency.

No one is going to do that. It's an electric motorcycle in disguise. Don't even play.

a full suspension e-bike, 500+Wh battery, with a belt drive for $4,500 is honestly a really good deal. There is a shortage of options when it comes to full-suspension bikes that are good for commutes. Compare this to any e-bike with the Bosch e-bike system. The big risk here for consumers if whether they can match the service, support, and reliability that Bosch has. There appears to be a class-2 e-bike option which is something that significantly differentiates it from bikes with the Bosch system.

What I want ... not an E-bike, but an E-version of the BMW C1

Critical features: 1. moderate weather protection 2. vastly improved crash protection 3. top speed above 50mph 4. luggage capacity of a small flatbed trailer

I acknowledge the utility of e-bikes for many; for me, I prefer my non-e bike when I want to ride my bike, but would love an e-motorycle as an alternative to 80% of my car trips.

https://www.theautopian.com/bmws-first-scooter-had-a-ridicul...

Despite the complaints in this thread there is already a market for $4k ebikes. And people are buying them. The bike competes with a bunch of e-bikes in that price range, Evelo Omega, Bosch, etc. So they're hardly a first mover. They are optimizing that market.

The TM-Q is much more interesting to me as an outsider. What if these are clogging up city bike lanes for commercial purposes? https://ridealso.com/products/quad

> Also also unveiled its Alpha Wave helmet.... It also features integrated lights and a four-speaker, wind-shielded internal audio system with two noise-canceling mics. The helmet integrates with the TM-B’s console, where music, calls, and podcasts can be controlled on the bike.

In an ideal world these would be great features to have, but in the real world, where so many places have a near complete absence of safe cycling infrastructure and bicycles are casually mixed in with giant trucks it's a bit of a scary notion to reduce your situational awareness with a great sound system and the distraction of doing your morning zoom standup while cycling to work (I've done this before lol, tho most of my commute is in separated bike lanes...).

This points to the headwinds to adoption and success of the Also, which is that so many cities are ambivalent and uninterested if not outright ideologically opposed to building safe all ages and abilities bike lanes. That sort of safe infrastructure is critical to the success of a product like this. It's really unfortunate.

Very interesting, really liking the swappable components in the quad. I'm a big cyclist but have been looking for something new to take around for commuting that isn't a scooter.

Great to see more manufacturers getting in on micromobility options.

I'm not sure we can call these things bikes. It weights almost 40kgs... You cannot physically ride even slightly uphill when the battery dies. It's just a motor or a scooter.

I really wish they would offer a Class 1 or Class 2 version.

I would rather just pick up a Maeving RMS or a CE 02. TM-B weighs 90 lbs and is not quite a scooter or bike.

I have a 750W e-bike (which actually means 750W peak, 500W sustained).

There are hills near my house that my bike can not make it up without significant pedal assist.

If the motor and power electronics on this e-bike can only handle 750W peak, 500W sustained, as is common and I think is possibly even legislated in parts of the U.S., this bike will not be able to make it up serious hills.

With a normal e-bike, your pedaling is additive to the motor. That is not the case with this design.

While this looks pretty slick, i definitely agree with commenters this falls on the moped end of things. I will assume from the features listed that it's loaded with proprietary parts.

I'm an everyday cyclist and when people ask me for recommendations on bike, I almost always recommend they look at traditional bike brands with e-bikes, rather than pure e-bike brands.

Traditional bike shop level bike brands typically have reputable Bosch or Bafang motors (preferably mid drive, not in the wheels hub)and computers, but the rest of the bike will be mostly standard bike brakes, wheel sizes, derailleurs, chains, hubs etc.

Bring one of those DTC e-bike brands into your local shop and there's probably a 50% chance they'll work on it. Good luck finding replacement parts or getting support from the company with no local prescence.

Look on /r/bikemechanics to see the horror show working on some of these bikes has become.

One of the great things about cycling is that almost anyone can learn to fix and maintain their bike. It's affordable and mostly standardized at this point

It's extremely accessible with YouTube Videos, the Park Tool Blue Book, and bike coops or workshops in most cities. Many local shops are happy to share knowledge with their customers.

The closer your e-bike is to a traditional bike, the better time you'll have in the long run.

28mph as the top speed seems to go beyond the bike market, but it’s positioned as a bike. It’s also marketed as a mountain bike. Of course it’s on the person to be safe, just wondering if it becomes a problem on the roads and trails

Not affiliated but I'm looking into converting my commuter bike with a kit from https://ebikes.ca. Seems to make more sense to turn any of the million bikes out there into an electric one using a reusable kit than buying a single purpose electric bike that will end up on the landfill once the company goes bust because no one wants to push around a bike that heavy.

It has a bit of a “The Homer” feel to it, but maybe the designs grows on you.

This thing at least looks like a bike, some of the 'e-bikes' are way more motorcycles than actually meant to be paddled.

Any details on the regen efficiency? Going downhill would net back some energy depending on regen efficiency.

My general advice is to never buy a bike from a company that doesn’t have a core business in building non electric bicycles.

"Drive by Wire"? This is not even anywhere near a "bike". At least you could argue "e-bikes" could still be pedaled without the battery. It's not that anybody would want to or even could, but an argument could be made.

Christ what an ugly kludge. Just spend a weekend in Amsterdam and check out the Tenways and the Vanmoof roaming the streets for an idea how to do it, if not right, at least decently

I ride a class-3 Tern cargo bike with 400Wh battery and this range is very optimistic, especially since this is pedal-by-wire. Also what happens when the battery runs out, because you can just ride without assist on any Bosch e-bike.

Most visibly interesting part to me is the frame design without a rear triangle (no seatstay) like a motorcycle or dirtbike.

Materials must be real strong to withstand all the torque forces without a rear triangle, right? Any other e-bikes like this?

I wish they’d clean up Class 3. They made the throttles illegal in California.

Well, it certainly has a Rivian price.

I suspect I'll be seeing these around here, soon.

I'm liking aspects of the design, but I'm concerned about weight and overengineering of simple stuff like the seatpost bracket.

Also, the "TM-B Reservation Token" smacks of egregious marketeering.

Still, this looks like a solid ebike.

I walked past a near identical delivery quad to their TM-Q not an hour ago.

We need fast charging e-bike infrastructure

This new e-bike news drops just as Cory Ellison arrives at his mom’s in a Rivian. Great job marketing dept!

Bear with me I don't know much about bikes but I have this honest question: why does it need a chain, and won't place the engine (or whatever gear box it has) directly on the wheel?

Reeks of Juicero.

NFS lock and unlock. GPS locator. Capacitance touchscreen controls. Hydraulic disc brakes.

Companion helmet with wirelessly connected brake lights, and noise cancelling(?!) speakers.

Why do we need to learn the same lessons over and over again?

This is a motorcycle. It's a cycle with a motor.

I love that the popularity of motorcycling is taking off with better batteries, motors, and control systems!

It's motorcycling though :-)

Only 28mph max speed, and the firmware might actually be properly protected from this bug being easily fixed. I'll stick to my Chinese scooters run by code-unlocked STM32F103 clones i can easily cure of such idiocy.

The battery system here sounds so sweet. Swappable, with a respectable 0.5kWh and then an Extended Range 0.8kWh is excellent.

Usb-c chargeable at 240W is divinely sweet. Maybe maybe some day dual USB would be nice (for the ER especially) but this is quite respectable. And by not trying to super fast charge the battery will live longer anyhow.

Being removable is another nice win, if not uncommon. I don't know which other batteries provide USB power even without the bike, which again is such a great nice to have: take the bike to a park then bring with an charge some phones or what-not.

In the future I really hope we see some battery alliances, making some form factors, and centralizing on usb-c. As would be good common sense. The overlap between a bike battery and standalone Delta or Ecoflow battery power station is huge, and Rivian here seems a little further along than most at hybridizing & generalizing a battery system: obvious win to anyone paying attention!

The modularity could be a major win too. I'd love to see a an e-bike maker go down the Ford Bronco path & add a bunch of attachments points and replaceable/modular pieces to the design, and release all the specs for free use! Even if it only is Rivian and some partners doing this here, this is the way, it feels like:

> The top frame of the TM-B is modular by design, so the bike can be transformed without tools into a cargo hauler, kid carrier, or cruiser with a bench seat.

Cargo haulers easily climb to the 6000$ ranges. And the massive 180NM motor here will not bat an eye!

One thing I'd love to see: a stationary bike mode. Bring it inside for the winter & do spin class, charging up the battery. The full series hybrid, no mechanical linkage, doesnt deel super super practical to be honest but it's interesting!

A lot of nice basic things that make sense. Like no longer needing special cherging equipment for reasonably good capacity chwrging (albeit most usb-c chargers will only be doing 100w for a while now, but that seems fine).

The kid carrier looks dangerously top heavy.

> Due to regulations in some states and jurisdictions, throttle will act as an assist boost in those areas, temporarily increasing your assist multiplier while you hold it down.

The bike comes with DRM that automatically tracks which location you're in and applies regulations to the controls? Fucking hell.

The only things this seems to have over an electric scooter is larger wheels, a seat, and a cargo rack. It's almost impossible to tell in a time-efficient way though because they really want you to watch their presentation and individually click on each "SEE MORE" button and read each little excerpt one at a time. I'm super annoyed by this website.

Even the most premium possible scooter costs almost $1,000 less than this - Apollo Phantom 2.0 Stellar is $3,649 right now, and goes like 50 MPH, has far less DRM, and so on. No cargo space though.

Wow, cool bike! Said nobody.

It's sad to see so much effort being put into a product that is utterly uncool. Maybe start with the design (cool) and then integrate the mechanics. This is how companies design cool cars.

Great! Another bunch of micromobility products that nobody asked for. And the price! I can buy 6 very decent Chinese ebikes of various formats for the $4500 this thing will cost. I'm sure it will be more advanced and nicely designed, but it's just way too expensive. Bicycles are a mass-market item. Price is the primary decider. If you want to be successful, you have to be cheaper than the competition. Who is this for?

Hey Dean Kamen,

See how it just becomes a bicycle when it's discharged or broken? This is much, much closer to what we expected from the Segway.

Glad to see innovation in bicycle space. That said, when I was living in NYC, I was always afraid that someone on an e-bike would hit me when I'm trying to cross the road (esp. in the evenings or when the weather doesn't permit a lot of visibility). Some of these e-bikers also ride on the pedestrian platforms and it's dangerous (as of 2022, I don't think there was any enforcement to keep them out of the platforms).

It'd be interesting to see if/how e-bike laws would evolve if this trend gets bigger (ebikes are already big in big cities like NYC)