Great idea! I will now be Michael Bolton for the purposes of restaurant reservations.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YX7R9M-Taik

The endgame is that you get a custom menu with customized prices.

I have a name that’s completely unique, except for some well known European scholar in a highly specialized field of medicine.

One day the scholar visted my city to give a lecture, and I seriously considered attending and causing some type of trouble.

But whatever fun I would have it’s not worth sitting through a lecture on some chemical process in the lower blah blah blah blah.

hash collision

Having been to a place that does this, before I had an online profile: I think this is only one side of their approach.

During my visit the team were super attentive and conversational and picked up on insanely small details. I’m sure if you weren’t a person of note, you’ll still get the same service but they have a different starting point to deliver it.

The restaurants at this tier aren’t giving anyone bad service.

Service is a big component of being a Michelin starred restaurant.

Both kinds of people are here. People who complain about social media, arms, pollution etc and people whose job contributes to it.

There’s no point in expecting a homogeneous experience here.

Ads are automated, no human involved into the actual research of a specific visitor. It's still creepy, but less personal. Some people can accept this line. But I also guess, with AI this line might be moved again.

The deeper reason is probably, machines are following rules, and they do it equally, focus on their specific job, without any hidden agenda. Humans are different, they have personal opinions and their own agenda, they can even be abusive. This is taking control from the people, and many people don't like losing control.

Does that imply you have to like it or be labeled a hypocrite?

Life isn't a series of black or white choices, but full of multifacetted grey areas where some bad will always be mixed in with the good.

I can very much dislike restaurants sleuthing me even if I have sites with add revenue.

I do not care for their imagined 'marginal service improvent potential'. For excellent service and good food, you do not need to know anything about me beyond my reservation and any food allergies me or my party might volunteer.

In fact, many people on HN work for Google.

I don't know if the times have changed, but if the staff at the restaurant I've been twice knows something I did not tell them, I would not be particularly comfortable with that.

>Click-bait headline makes you think otherwise, but this is just standard hospitality stuff.

It's so standard that it's actually part of the training at that universally-known 0 michelin star italian travesty, the olive garden. When I worked there we called it "surprise and delight" because I'm sure if we called it collecting the dots we had to pay Danny Meyer. We were taught to observe our guests and even ask some questions in order to gather intel and then confer w the MoD in order to brainstorm ways to make the guest's visit special. We didn't have the resources to do things like the Pequod's scene from The Bear but what we could do we took great pride in doing. Our store was in the area where a soup called stellini is available. It's basically a chicken noodle soup w little pasta stars, spinach and meatballs, derived from a Pittsburgh-area specialty called wedding soup. Idk who in an olive garden in another state let slip that their large party was from Pittsburgh but the GM from that store called us and we overnighted a bunch of stellini to that restaurant (at corporate's expense, of course) just so they could have the same experience at this other store that they do at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clienteling

Anyone in service-oriented business is or ought to be familiar with the general concepts. I have a whiteboard next to my desk with the names and ages of people's kids.

And for those worried about the creepiness of it all, privacy and discretion are also core concepts of service/hospitality when done well.

but this is just standard hospitality stuff

Aside from telling the host that you're celebrating your birthday or an anniversary when you make the reservation and getting a special dessert for the occasion, have you ever been at a restaurant where such dots were collected, connected and acted upon?

I haven't, and I've been to 1 & 2 star restaurants.

If I caught the staff doing that at a hotel or restaurant, I’d black list them. Fuck that.

Not sure I totally buy that. If anything, I’ve found laypeople to be _more_ creeped out by targeted advertising, in particular, than tech people (with the caveat that this is in Europe, and I do think there’s a cultural gap there; Europe’s stricter regulation on this sort of thing doesn’t arise in a vacuum).

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy, but these places feel designed for snobs, not normies.

I don't see what's so normal about any of this. In the past your friends would just mention a few hints while making the reservation... and people still do this now.

If they need to scan your social media, that speaks volumes about how you socialize and the quality of those interactions. Plenty of "normal" people don't want this either. The thoughts mean more coming from your friends than a creepy restaurant.

I would prefer the restaurant to know that which is relevant, which is I would tell them anything which is relevant (for the specific order I am making at that time, which might or might not be the same next time), when I go to that restaurant. They do not necessarily need to know my name in order for this to work.

I'd prefer having consent of when and where my data is used.

I'm your typical HN, tecchie, paranoid, privacy-obssessed "don't track me" nerd.

But I have absolutely no problem with haute cuisine restaurants doing this.

There's a few reasons that make this special, and in a completely different universe than being tracked online.

1. Most people, my wife and I included, seldom go to haute cuisine restaurants. When we do, it is a very special, once in a lifetime experience.

2. Restaurants are not staffed by hackers and advertising engineers. They are going to start with opt-in questionnaires that you will fill out when you make your reservation. That questionnaire will often come in one of two forms: a) they will just ask you verbally when you phone or b) they'll send you a package when you make your reservation. That package is usually pretty special unto itself. It's going to feel like a welcome package, and they are going to invite you to share anything that you think is helpful, entirely voluntarily. Typically they'll ask about food preferences and dietary restrictions... but I mean, they'll get a lot just by giving you a text field that asks "Are you celebrating a special occasion, or anything else you want to share?" You're free to put whatever you want in there, and leave anything else out.

3. Now we get to the social media part. This is doing a little bit extra above what most haute cuisines have done in the past. But remember - they can only find what you make public. They're not like, DM'ing people on your friends' lists etc. or hiring a private investigator to stalk you.

Once you're in the door, the idea of remembering that you were there before and jotting down your preferences etc. so that if you return they can make you feel even that more special... this isn't McDonald's, or even a fancy steak house, that we're talking about. This is a place that most people - if they go at all - are going to go ONCE. So people who return are extremely special and to show them that level of "we give a fuck about you" is what sets these restaurants apart.

One experience that my wife and I had was at Victoria & Albert's at Disney's Grand Floridian resort. We spent $2,000 on that meal. Why? Because it was our belated honeymoon. We were highschool sweethearts, got married and had kids really young and were extremely poor for most of our marriage... so we saved up and it was once in a lifetime. For that money... this level of service is a huge part of how they go above and beyond to make their patrons feel like it's worth it. If most people felt freaked out by it, that some personal boundary was being crossed ... it would be the last thing they do. But they realize that your typical dining experience is pretty impersonal. That if you're going to shell out that much money on a dinner... it needs to be more than just the world's best food.

Until some YC backed SaaS LLM AI automates the process and it becomes table stakes. Then they find other uses for it..

Thanks! We've changed the title above to use a more representative phrase from the article.

Reminds me of The Menu.

Still creepy.

author doesn't understand the definition of "vetting"

which is par for the course for sfgate/chronicle

Restaurants concentrate too hard on the things that are not food.

If a restaurateur and/or the head chef has any pretensions of greatness, then they must master two French dishes, Coq au Vin, and Boeuf Bourguignon.

Before investing in anything else, these are tollgates.

> I don't have the right personality traits to enjoy this kind of personal attention a lot of the time

Have friends who work at the Four Seasons. This—low service interaction—is a common type of personalised attention patrons want.

I don’t think there is a social media cue for it. But even as someone who’s fairly extroverted, I got a note indicating I should be left alone if dining alone and reading.

Yeah I get what you mean. I think I'd be a lot more weirded out than delighted if a restaurant I was going to stalked my social media (such as it exists at all), attempted to deduce things I would like from it, and presented me those things at a meal.

Yeah I’m heavily introverted and feel the same way. It establishes a kind of social pressure that if I fail to hold up my side of the relationship I just get anxious

If you go so often that people remember you, I mean, what do you expect, that they somehow block the memory of you from their mind?

Japanese customer service (“omotenas”) emphasizes anticipating needs and delivering respectful, consistent service, not improvisation. It can feel rigid (no menu changes), but it’s not about ignoring or dominating it customers. If a place can accommodate a food sensitivity, they usually will. If they truly can’t, they’ll tell you clearly rather than risk doing it wrong. It’s a cultural focus on doing things properly and fairly, not a lack of care or some sort of holier-than-thou feeling.

That's because this article is an ad for that restaurant.

Can you elaborate?

Didn't worry, they'll find this comment and stick you at an okay booth, provide okay service, and pretend not to recognize you next time you come in. It'll be perfect.

Many moons ago I was celebrating an anniversary with my parents and sister at a smallish, but very good, restaurant downtown.

As we were chatting while waiting for the dessert, the whole restaurant started singing "Happy Birthday", as the waiter (and owner) came with the dessert, sparkler and all.

I sooo wanted to just disappear.

Turned out my mom had told the waiter/owner about the occasion, and he had unbeknownst to my mom gotten all the other guests in on it.

Nice thought, just totally not my thing.

What if their special thing for you was to treat you like a truly genetic customer?

I.e., like what Leslie Knope did for Run Swanson on his birthday.

I guess then you wouldn't go to such a restaurant.

I dare way there is a way to completely opt out of it as well.

Do you also give a fake name to the barista at Starbucks so they don't track you? Other restaurants can't even be bothered to do that much personalization, and just give you a number (and treat you like one).

They aren't not letting them in...

I haven't seen The Menu, but try watching The Bear instead. They demonstrate this level-of-service & mentality and it's much more sincere than you think.

> intended to be some sort of filtering mechanism

It's can be, at least anecdotally from people who work in prestigeous restaurants, i.e. places with year+ backlog. Owner/operator (frequently back of house) has strong politics and tell front of house to lose resos for certain client profiles.

I completely agree with you.

Of which, the name comes from the US concept of “credit score” which was always privatized.

How is it a credit score? The restaurant isn't stopping anyone from coming in, but trying to personalise the experience to them.

Americans only care that the organization that can kill and arrest isn’t controlling all facets of life

But are tolerant that corporations do the exact same things in their society

For people who go to these restaurants, this is better service. You wouldn't find this happening at Red Robin. This is what they are paying for.

If it's not for you, that's fine.

Despite much hype, past a certain point even the highest end food really is... just food.

The service is what people really pay for, and there I agree that there should be much more interesting ideas to elevate the experience than bringing in a baby penguin. I don't see anything in the article as particularly creative.

There are exactly 2 restaurants I recommend to people, and invite family/friends to when they’re visiting.

Absolutely none of these restaurants know who I am, do anything special for me, or even know my favorite dishes.

The only thing they have in common is they consistently make delicious tasting food. And they probably focus a lot on doing that. Its that simple.

That's ok, you'll get the same treatment everyone else got before they started this trend. "Normies" with their lives on the standard socials will get extra attention or special treatment at no detriment to you.

The example in the article is about getting to know your patrons so no social presence would be fine, but for what you're talking about with actual filtering no social presence would be an immediate rejection so I wouldn't be so smug.

There's a fundamental difference - restaurants checking if you like wine on Instagram to enhance service is optional and consequence-free, while China's system is mandatory with significant legal and financial penalties.

Except nothing like it? This article isn’t about filtering guests out, but about creating additional tailored experiences to those who do attend.

Their social credit system doesn't actually exist in the way most people think it does, it was a top down mandate that each province was expected to implement in their own way, often without coordination.

https://youtu.be/Kqov6F00KMc

Well sure, but for private enterprise.