The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

142 pointsposted 6 days ago
by robaato

45 Comments

erie

3 days ago

There is also a more recent one in Syria :"How Seeds from War-Torn Syria Could Help Save American Wheat - May 14, 2018 https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-seeds-from-war-torn-syria... And another take on it here: How Syrians Saved an Ancient Seedbank From Civil War When civil war broke out in Syria, Ahmed Amri immediately thought about seeds. Specifically, 141,000 packets of them sitting in cold storage 19 miles south of Aleppo. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/syrians-saved-ancient-seedbank...

bfelbo

6 days ago

We might need to preserve seeds again due to climate change. Impressive to read about those who literally sacrificed their life during a siege for science and the future of humanity. Thanks for sharing.

Etheryte

4 days ago

There are multiple national and international initiatives that have been building seed banks for a long time, what do you mean with the again?

mmooss

4 days ago

Also, there's talk of putting one on the moon.

Arch-TK

4 days ago

Don't seed banks need regular refreshing?

Blahah

3 days ago

Seed banks are mostly self-refreshing. Seed viability decline during storage is measured and modelled for. A sample of seeds is taken out of storage and grown to breed a new batch of seeds after an amount of time based on the rate of decline of that sample.

So a batch that loses 20% viability every 5 years will be regrown to seed after a shorter amount of time than one that loses 2% viability every 5 years.

Source: was a seed germination and dormancy researcher at the Millennium Seed Bank

quietbritishjim

3 days ago

I'm the context of this comment chain, you're agreeing with the parent comment with a tone of disagreement. Yes, seed banks need periodic attention (whether you call that refreshing or self-refreshing or whatever), so you couldn't stick a bunch of seeds on the moon and just leave them there.

ahazred8ta

3 days ago

The proposed lunar seed bank is cryogenic, not room temperature.

user

3 days ago

[deleted]

sholladay

3 days ago

How does that work with apple trees and such?

My understanding is you could have a fantastic apple seed, grow it into a fantastic tree with fantastic fruit, but then the next generation grown from its seeds might be nearly inedible. And that all the delicious fruit we eat comes from grafted trees as a result of this.

Also, more generally, lots of trees are huge, so presumably you aren’t growing them in a cave or mine shaft. How is that handled?

nsxwolf

3 days ago

What is the meaning of "self-refreshing" there, though? That sounds like a lot of work.

Arch-TK

3 days ago

Yeah but even if the viability decline was quite slow on the moon, you would still have to refresh _eventually_, at least that's how I understand what you wrote.

Are we going to have robots on the moon doing the refreshing? That would be cool.

josefx

3 days ago

If you have everything on the moon needed to grow a large amount of plants couldn't you also support a human or two?

mmooss

3 days ago

There are relatively serious plans for permanent habitation on the moon. Transporting seeds occasionally hopefully won't require launching a lot of mass, but I don't know how many seeds they store.

throwup238

4 days ago

Ideally yes but scientists have grown crops from single seeds that are thousands of years old so as long as the facilities passively maintain a low temperature, many of them will be viable for a very long time.

lukan

4 days ago

" as long as the facilities passively maintain a low temperature"

And remain dry.

whythre

4 days ago

Shouldn’t be a problem on the moon.

jhbadger

4 days ago

Elise Blackwell wrote "Hunger", a novel about these botanists, which I thought was well done.

IYasha

a day ago

Almost cried while reading this. I knew the story vaguely, but those details...

dylan604

4 days ago

Cosmos with Neil Degrasse Tyson also did an episode on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaqVg6BXXtA

unlog

4 days ago

> The uploader has not made this video available in your country

We really need a civilization changing event to rethink some stuff.

teddyh

4 days ago

<magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2650E9B1E36E713DD78BAFC638408A491854B839>

juno_oneohsix

3 days ago

The same stopmotion animation studio that did the film Anomalisa did this episode!

lofaszvanitt

4 days ago

What kind of cabbage is that? I mean look at their size.

codesnik

3 days ago

um, a normal one? it looks exactly what I've seen on my grandmother's garden patch in my childhood. It's just that size is not very practical for supermarkets and a small family consumption, so current selection and harvesting methods go in the opposite direction.

lofaszvanitt

3 days ago

Interesting. I've never seen such a huge cabbage.

AcerbicZero

4 days ago

[flagged]

sedan_baklazhan

4 days ago

I doubt you will ever understand what the siege was really like, while you are making fun of it. Is it really that fun?

FpUser

4 days ago

Can't pass that lying dog without kicking?

satao

3 days ago

ah yes, the Soviet Union that turned a country that was still feudal in the 20th century into a country that sent the first human to space 50 years later for sure was very against science.

nextaccountic

3 days ago

I actually overall agree with your point, but to be fair the off topic remark probably was targeted at this bit of pseudoscience that unfortunately dominated Soviet politics for decades, and its influence in Soviet and Chinese agricultural policy ultimately contributed to the death of millions of people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko#Repression_of_b...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine#Agricultu...

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/12/trofim-l...

Note that Nikolai Vavilov, a scientist that preserved the seedbank cited in the Guardian article, was actually purged due to Lysenko's crusade against genetics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Vavilov

> Vavilov's work was criticized by Trofim Lysenko, whose anti-Mendelian concepts of plant biology had won favor with Joseph Stalin. As a result, Vavilov was arrested and subsequently sentenced to death in July 1941. Although his sentence was commuted to twenty years' imprisonment, he died in prison in 1943. In 1955, his death sentence was retroactively pardoned under Nikita Khrushchev. By the late 1950s, his reputation was publicly rehabilitated, and he began to be hailed as a hero of Soviet science.[4]

sedan_baklazhan

3 days ago

May I please remind you of Turing's fate in the land of Freedom and Science?

dbspin

3 days ago

Turing was punished (effectively tortured to death) for his sexuality. While awful and indefensible, the difference is that he was not punished for his scientific / engineering work. There are countless examples of soviet scientists exiled or executed because their research agenda or conclusions conflicted with state ideology in a given period. You'd be hard pressed to find similar examples in the West. Although there have been examples in recent decades of scientists being silenced by right wing administrations - particularly around climate change related public communication. Funding can of course be politically directed and denied. But imprisonment or execution for studying the 'wrong' thing? Not one of the many flaws of Western hypercapitalism.

sedan_baklazhan

3 days ago

>But imprisonment or execution for studying the 'wrong' thing?

This is extremely simple. Israel openly and proudly kills Iranian scientists, at least 5 were killed in last decades, precisely for the reason of their scientific work.

What, there are other reasons why this is a very right thing to do, am I right? I guess you will present me with lots of reasons why these scientists should have been killed.

We clearly got Good and Bad scientists in this world. The ones that the West kills are Bad. The ones that USSR once killed are Good.

dbspin

9 hours ago

Israel and Iran are antagonistic nations in an active military conflict - this is a really bad counterexample. I'd never defend Israel's actions militarily, but all countries attempt to disrupt the military programmes of their adversaries in secret. Often violently. This is absolutely not comparable to murdering their own scientists for carrying out research.

Side note - the assumption that the opinions of others will neatly fall into a packet of predictable (and hence easily refutable) tribal signifiers, is itself a forms of defensive tribalism. 'See you expressed opinion x, you obviously believe y and z, therefore your perspective is on no value'. This approach avoids engaging with the discussion itself and achieves little.

Specifically to the point you mention - I'm not American, and hence outside the media bubble disguising / legitimating Israeli genocide. That should have no impact on our discussion, as its in no way relevant - except as a tribal signal as described above.

bitcurious

3 days ago

> This is extremely simple. Israel openly and proudly kills Iranian scientists, at least 5 were killed in last decades, precisely for the reason of their scientific work.

Engineers, for their engineering work.