n4r9
3 days ago
This is an insightful read. Especially for its time! I struggle with being defensive at home; for example if a mistake that I've made is pointed out, my first reaction is to deny or look for excuses rather than to empathise with the other person, who may be feeling upset and unheard as something has happened for the nth time. For some reason, this doesn't happen to anywhere near the same degree at work, where I am fully able to own my mistakes and look for ways forward.
Text at this level of emotional abstraction can be quite difficult to internalise, especially for those with less practise or who might be "on the spectrum". It's helpful to have one or two illustrative examples in each category. For example:
Evaluative: "Sort out your code before sending it for review, it's an absolute mess yet again and wastes my time."
Descriptive: "After an initial review I can see code style issues A, B, C, some of which also occured in PRs X, Y, Z. Please make sure you're checking through for these in future review request as it would greatly streamline the review process."
Also, listing out a set of categories is useful, and even sufficient for many people. But it doesn't tell you how to stop being defensive, just what being defensive looks like and how to deal with defensiveness in others. Defensiveness often stems from some insecurity about yourself. Reassuring that insecurity can resolve the issue. In my above example with Evaluative and Descriptive text, the speaker may be more evaluative if they're stressed about time-pressures and resent having to mentor more junior employees. It might be helpful for them to cultivate the part of themselves that values broad, long-term knowledge and skills growth in the team, and to take some perspective regarding the relative seriousness of those time pressures.
taylorius
3 days ago
" for example if a mistake that I've made is pointed out,"
If it is unambiguously your mistake, then fair enough - but in my experience, "stop being defensive" is often used when defending oneself is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in the circumstances.
chikere232
3 days ago
Also, as the article points out, there are better and worse ways to point out a mistake
If someone completely flips out over a relatively minor mistake, going on the defensive or disengaging isn't necessarily a bad response
n4r9
3 days ago
I would say that "being defensive" is different to "defending oneself". Given the semantic overlap it's very easy to see why they'd be conflated. Being defensive is an emotional response that serves to protect ones ego. It often lashes out, invokes absolutes, dismisses the other, deflects all responsibility, and avoids resolution. Defending your behaviour in an assertive manner need not do this.
Let's take an example. Say that my wife finds the cutlery draw in a messy state. She's previously brought it up with me and I had agreed to make an effort to help keep it tidy. It's potentially ambiguous in that it's not clear who's "fault" it is. But that doesn't actually matter in terms of resolving the conflict.
Defensive me: "Huh? I dunno! I've just been putting things there like normal as far as I can remember. And anyway I've been having to do the clearing up as well as putting the kids to bed this week so what do you expect?! You're always taking me to task for stuff like this. Why are you so wound up about a draw? If it's so important to you why don't you just tidy it yourself?"
Assertive & empathetic me: "You know what, you're right. The draw is in a state. And I can understand why that's upsettting as you have brought it up before, and it is frustrating to have to root around to get what you need. To be honest, I don't remember being very scrupulous about keeping it orderly, but I'll make sure to focus on it. I've been finding it a struggle to stay mindful about what I'm doing in the evenings this week as I realise I've taken on quite a lot of chores, so it's very possible I overlooked this. Shall we try doing XYZ to make it easier to place things back neatly?"
taylorius
3 days ago
Thanks for responding. You'll be happy to hear I have disagreements with what you've written! :-)
"Given the semantic overlap it's very easy to see why they'd be conflated." - I agree with the definition you gave, but I think such conflation is often intentional. The accusation of "Being defensive" is used to shut down a much broader range of responses.
" it's not clear who's "fault" it is. But that doesn't actually matter in terms of resolving the conflict." - This is technically true - but only a sufficient analysis if resolving the conflict is the sole concern. I posit that there are often broader issues that mean justice is not being served by just resolving the conflict at any cost.
"Assertive & empathetic me: " - I hate to say it, but your last paragraph doesn't sound very assertive to me. It sounds like someone who is hoping to resolve an argument quietly regardless of the cost, rather than have it blow up.
Anyway, thanks for listening, man. I hope you take my answer in a spirit of honest debate. I'm not trying to be rude or anything.
n4r9
3 days ago
> your last paragraph doesn't sound very assertive to me
I reread what I wrote and agree with you. In fact it's made me want to reflect on whether I go too far in that direction. For which I thank you, too.
epicureanideal
3 days ago
> Say that my wife finds the cutlery draw in a messy state. She's previously brought it up with me
Picky picky. This sounds unpleasant. I wouldn’t deal with this kind of nitpicking and would get out of what seems like a toxic situation.
grahamj
2 days ago
It's normal for people to have pet peeves. You need to be able to resolve them without running away.
hatthew
3 days ago
That sounds like a significant overreaction
hunter2_
3 days ago
Yeah, I think a sizable portion of people who are ultimately worth keeping around will occasionally go off in this ostensibly toxic manner, such that one would be quite lonely running away from them all. If it gets to be overwhelming, sure, but usually there's a lot more to consider.
n4r9
2 days ago
What would you say makes it toxic? The fact that a cutlery draw seems like a minor thing? I didn't say anything about the manner in which it was brought up; it could have been totally respectful.
hunter2_
2 days ago
I would not say it's toxic. I was commenting on then-GP's characterization of it being toxic, specifically that I find it to be ostensibly (i.e., purportedly, but probably not actually) toxic, and rather a bit closer to normal if very occasional.
In any case, I think the conversation had already shifted from analyzing defensiveness to analyzing the way people nitpick regardless of how they communicate it.
That we interpreted this tangent so differently is an awesome showcasing of issues with effectiveness of communication!
chikere232
3 days ago
The article seems to talk more about how to avoid other people going on the defensive, than how to avoid being defensive yourself. Both things are probably useful as neither party in such an exchange can solve it completely on their own.
Being non-defensive towards someone actively emotionally abusive is a bad idea for obvious reason. Conversely if someone if sufficiently insecure or fond of the victim role, no amount of softness in the approach will help
rawgabbit
3 days ago
This is my take on the article using your example.
1) Do not use judgmental language (e.g., sort out your code); instead use language that is asking for clarity or asking for more information (e.g., the code has issues A, B, C; any reason why the code cannot be refactored?).
2) Do not assume the other person is stupid (e.g., wastes my time); instead use language that addresses the problem (e.g., please see best practices document 1.2.3 and 4.5.6 to how it should be written.)
3) Do not use cold language that makes you distant and detached (e.g., This is the third time your code has these issues); instead use language that you would use to a friend (e.g., Is there something going on that I should know about?)