tptacek
a year ago
Every large information security firm in the market offers physical pentesting, and most large in-house security teams do semi-regular physical pentesting. I was hoping this would be a story about the complications of doing physical pentesting on sites where the use of deadly force is authorized, but instead it's an article of the type you'd have expected to read in the late 1990s, when this stuff was exotic.
nonameiguess
a year ago
Amusingly, we did this at the Army Reconnaissance Course. I was in one of the last courses still based out of Fort Knox before the Armor School relocated to Benning and our capstone field event was basically a survivor pool where we split into teams starting at the perimeter of the installation and gradually move inward surveilling all of the facilities while the school staff tries to find us. Whoever is the last to get caught wins.
The MPs and US Mint Police were, of course, told we were doing this so they wouldn't shoot us. I do recall an incident from a bit more than a decade back, I think at Fort Bragg, where a soldier going through the special forces Q Course was shot by a police officer.
psunavy03
a year ago
I remember reading about that last. I believe that was a case where the Army runs the course in an area where local law enforcement and citizens role-play nationals of a fake foreign country, and the guy tried to bribe an LEO with fake "money" as if he was in character as a third-world cop. But the LEO wasn't part of the exercise, tried to arrest the guy, who resisted because he thought it was in-character, and things escalated from there.
rishabhd
a year ago
Must be a slow news day. I head this for a firm, and half expected this to be a piece on some good war stories.
snerbles
a year ago
Years ago I was one of those grumpy-looking guys with a rifle standing next to those "USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" signs, or directed the responses of said grumpy-looking guys.
This is all anecdotal and will vary wildly by org and era. So if you were to compare, say, a NATO WSA during the Cold War against a modern colocation facility that occasionally trots out crew-served weapons for marketing photoshoots...while both are secure facilities featuring some degree of lethal response capability, these will have very different liability profiles and rules of engagement. But in both cases there will need to be procedures in place for evaluating on-duty armed guards in a manner that doesn't get anyone hurt.
For routine training during shifts, a training exercise is openly declared. This can be done ahead of time, or an evaluator may do so by surprise - it all depends on what procedures and scenarios are being evaluated. Once the evaluator/actor is detected or challenged by guards (or some other threshold is passed during a scenario), an exercise is declared out loud. Normally, this will happen before anyone in that scenario might reasonably need to use force.
Upon exercise declaration this is accompanied by a quick "safety briefing" over the radio to response forces with routine reminders on what to do if an unsafe act occurs, so guard forces know to appropriately pretend (shout "bang", blink flashlight, etc) instead of actually firing upon intruders. There's a degree of make-believe roleplay once the exercise is active, since discharging duty weapons in real life comes with mountains of paperwork that I don't want to think about even decades later. Of course, less harmful forms of force may still be permissible (and expected!), such as various restraint techniques or handcuffing/zip-tying resistant bad guys.
For any competent org, this sort of training happens constantly and with enough variation to keep everyone on their toes. The role of "bad guy" is rotated between different guards, so everyone has a chance to attempt breaking in to various restricted areas and enjoy tasting the various flavors of pavement around base as we tackle each other. An exercise of one type can snowball into another, if I manage to catch some unsuspecting lazy troop unawares and "kill" them (usually with a "Surprise! This is an exercise, you're dead, do not answer your radio."), then while they're tagged out (and chewed on by their sergeants about situational awareness), a quick response force is scrambled from available troops on shift to stop us. By this point everyone on shift will know the situation has escalated from a failed pentest into a nasty wargame and should act accordingly.
Bear in mind that these sorts of live exercises are meant to evaluate procedures and test readiness in situ - the forces involved may suddenly be interrupted by real-world duties and time constraints. Live force-on-force training conducted with blanks, MILES gear, airsoft or whatever less-lethal weapons they have these days would be during designated training time and not on shift.