WA
11 hours ago
We just recently discovered, that during childbrith, vaginal microbiota is transferred to the child and this transfer is quite beneficial for the development of the immune system of the child. It's called vaginal microbiota transfer (VMT). It's so beneficial that babies being born via c-section are now artificially covered in their mother's vaginal microbiota.
Now imagine the thousands of factors that happen during pregnancy that probably influence the neurodevelopment of a human and which artifical womb doesn't take into account. Simple things such as: hearing and feeling the heartbeat of the mother, feeling the environment, heat, cold, being carried through life and so on.
lagpot
21 minutes ago
Yes, I think people who haven't studied this at all have a very naive view of the end-to-end complexities of pregnancy. It's currently very infeasible to simulate this environment, we don't have the knowledge or the technology, or even a path of how to get there.
What's more likely to come first is artificially created sperm, from a sample of any cells - first by converting them to stem cells, then differentiating those to sperm-producing cells. It's already been trialed in the lab. I expect it's only a matter of time before this becomes a widely available reproductive technology, like IVF is now. Perhaps a few decades, if that.
The most interesting thing about this is it can be done with female cells to make "female sperm", both in the sense that it comes from a female individual and that every sperm cell will be X chromosomed (thus producing only daughters).
At that point, men will be effectively obsolete, and will gradually diminish in population, as each successive generation will be skewed more towards female.
It will be interesting to see how society adapts to being female-centered instead of male-dominated.
pazimzadeh
9 hours ago
I agree with you, there’s probably a lot of epigenetic activity going on in response to environmental factors.
On the other hand, these things can probably be studied and identified. There is an organ shortage for transplantation, which historically peaks in times of peace. One idea is to genetically modify animals to make them more immunologically compatible. I could see a world where being able to control every aspect of the development process allows for more suitable organs (less risk of infection, etc).
jncfhnb
9 hours ago
> There is an organ shortage for transplantation, which historically peaks in times of peace.
That sounds unlikely to be true. I’m curious where you’re getting that from?
pazimzadeh
7 hours ago
sorry I don't remember the source. not super critical to the argument though
chromanoid
10 hours ago
I totally agree. Even "mere" breast feeding is still full of mysteries that developed during the millions of years of mammal evolution.
m463
6 hours ago
Apart from the nutrients from breastfeeding, I recall that it is part of an immune system feedback loop. If the child is fighting off something, it is transferred to the nipple during breastfeeding. The mother's immune system develops a response and provides help to the child in the breast milk next feeding.
xvilka
4 hours ago
Interesting. Do you have a source for that?
api_or_ipa
4 hours ago
Babbage podcast from the Economist had a great episode recently on it.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2LCTSD4k9bNDn6i8DzLv9r?si=D...
Nashooo
an hour ago
I'm sorry to be direct but I mean this in the best and most genuine way possible: how is a podcast a source?
jes5199
10 hours ago
sure, but take a survey of any group of five year olds - can you tell which ones were born by c-section? which ones were breastfed?
micromacrofoot
10 hours ago
yes but you can measure various effects on the macro scale, which is why we think breast feeding is a little more beneficial than formula
jancsika
10 hours ago
> thousands of factors
But this includes risk factors, too.
E.g., IIRC there's research into how certain stressors on the mother during pregnancy increase the likelihood of things like anxiety and depression for their offspring.
makeitdouble
9 hours ago
Like the vast majority of medical research, this aims at solving problematic cases where intervening reduces critical risks.
The stated case for this is premature birth, were the choice is between an artificial womb, the traditional setting, or letting the newborn die.
rysertio
4 hours ago
Still better than a preterm baby dying.
renewiltord
6 hours ago
This is one of the reasons I am not an organ donor. Think of all the specific things that a body has for a kidney. Should it be taken out, experience completely different conditions, and then be placed into an entirely different body that wasn’t grown around it organically? This could have horrific consequences for the recipient and I cannot, in good conscience, participate. It is unethical.
Tagbert
6 hours ago
Yes, the consequences of not getting a kidney transplant for someone with kidney failure is a painful death. The transplant is a much better alternative even if it isn’t ideal.
Preferring to offer death rather than your straw-man argument is probably more unethical.
triceratops
4 hours ago
Let me ease your conscience. If you become an organ donor it's not your decision whether any of your organs are actually transplanted. And you'd be dead. So you wouldn't be participating.
(Make absurd statements, get absurd replies)
sojournerc
6 hours ago
My father received a heart transplant that gave him many years of extended life. please reconsider being a donor. Something, even if it's not perfect, is better than nothing.
MailleQuiMaille
6 hours ago
>This could have horrific consequences for the recipient Like, he could live ? The point you are trying to make is unclear.