Crypto Wars: Hungarian Presidency continues fight against encryption

43 pointsposted 4 hours ago
by layer8

11 Comments

BLKNSLVR

3 hours ago

It's only possible to target services that have a central point of contact / administration. I don't want to invoke 'web 3.0' specifically, but the essentially headless decentralisation of encrypted communications services would be like trying to catch 'all the gas in the room' in your hand with a single clap, wouldn't it?

It feels like, even if they win this battle in the crypto wars, the real battleground has actually moved on anyway.

As an aside, that recent "Ghost Chat" infiltration[0][1] that apparently took down a few international crime gangs, wouldn't a Matrix / Synapse server and clients be a better option for encrypted communications than a custom phone/app?

[0]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/afp-raids-ghost-app-f...

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41566948

__MatrixMan__

3 hours ago

Most ISP's have a central point of contact / administration, and can be compelled to only forward encrypted traffic if it's explicitly permitted. I think that covers most everything, besides the chattering of a few ham radio operators here and there.

pb1729

2 hours ago

It wouldn't cover steganography. What looks like an unencrypted video file may have an encrypted message hidden in the noise.

idontwantthis

2 hours ago

Also wouldn’t cover encrypted messages sent in the clear. Exchange keys ahead of time and you’re just sending noise to each other. I guess you could still target users sending random noise under the assumption they are using encryption.

RcouF1uZ4gsC

2 hours ago

It doesn't have to be absolute. Just cross some threshold of inconvenience.

BLKNSLVR

3 hours ago

That feels like a large escalation from where we're currently at though. That would put a dagger through a majority of self-hosters.

aussieguy1234

3 hours ago

Let me guess, its the usual justifications. CSAM, terrorism?

Well, if you give the government too much power, sooner or later they will become the child abusers and terrorists. And at that point, there will be no police you can really call, since those in power will be able to act with absolute power and absolute impunity.

worstspotgain

2 hours ago

Hungary's is one of Putin's puppet regimes, so it's really about Russian-style repression of the opposition.

rdm_blackhole

17 minutes ago

You obviously have not read about this piece of legislation otherwise you would not have posted this comment.

The law in question also dubbed "chat control" has been on the table for the last 3 years now. It's been rejected each time so far but it comes back every 6 months without fail.

The reason Hungary is associated with "Chat control" this time is because Hungary holds the current presidency of the EU. This presidency changes every 6 months. Before Hungary, it was Belgium which was in charge and they too tried to get this law passed.

This is what a country with the EU presidency does, they set their goals and then try to reach a consensus with the other countries. "Chat control" is one of these goals just like it was one of the goals of the Belgium presidency.

So to come out and say the Hungary is pushing for this because they are Putin's puppet is not accurate at all. The EU commission, which I am pretty sure no one can accuse of being a puppet of Putin is the one who keep bringing this law not Hungary or a specific country in particular.

Now, I am not saying that Hungary is not happy about this, in fact they may well be very glad that this law is being discussed (as it would allow them to enable a state of total surveillance on their citizens) but please let's remember that even Sweden and Spain are amongst the many countries in the EU that are actually supporting this law.

To me that is the bigger problem, how can the EU be so supportive of personal privacy then come out with shit like this?

Nursie

2 hours ago

Hungary is widely acknowledged to be in a state of nascent dictatorship anyway.

I don’t think it really works to call out a potential slippery slope when the country is already overtly on that pathway. Those in power there can already operate with relative impunity.

(This is the reason that when Trump says “Orban likes me!” it’s not actually a flex)

rdm_blackhole

9 minutes ago

As per my comment above, this draft law has nothing to do with Hungary.

The only reason Hungary is currently associated with the "Chat control" draft is because Hungary currently holds the EU presidency and as part of their mandate they are free to set goals and negotiate with other countries in order to come up with future laws.

First, these drafts mostly originate from the EU commission, so Hungary is not the one who came out with it in the first place. Secondly, Belgium which had the presidency a couple of months ago also tried (and failed) to get this draft across the line.

So yes, Hungary, which may or may not be on it's way to become a dictatorship is very happy to keep pushing for these negotiations to happen but let's also take a moment and remember that Sweden, France, Spain and many more countries are also happy with it.

So to me, the question is how can we take EU countries seriously when they talk about privacy when so many of them are ready to create a system of blanket surveillance on all their citizens?