AI stocks slide as Texas governor result raises data center risks

54 pointsposted a day ago
by 1659447091

80 Comments

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

To a public already apprehensive about what A.I means for their jobs and their future, the shady and irresponsible way the industry went about the Datacenter build-out convinced them that the industry is not to be trusted. Can't say I blame them. If they don't get their act together, datacenters will be the least of their worries. With what happened today, many Republicans will be thinking twice about standing in the way of choking regulation.

Loudoun County, Virginia is about to get even richer.

Spivak

a day ago

It will be interesting to see if and how people who campaigned on broad "anti-datacenter" platforms actually make it happen. I imagine it's easy to take a stance but getting the real political capital together, especially as a governor who will almost surely need their legislature, when it means turning down jobs—few as the ongoing ones might be—and real economic development. I hope it works because it potentially sets a precedent and maybe a legal framework for a state to actually say "we don't want this kind of business here" for things that aren't just data centers.

broodbucket

a day ago

I'm not sure there being fewer jobs for a handful of datacentre engineers is going to be much of a problem for the voter base. Unless profits made from these datacentres are going to be directly helping the public somehow (if they even can make profits), there's fundamentally no reason for anyone to want DCs in their area. People might want to do things that require DCs, but that's different from wanting one near you. What arguments can you even make to ordinary people as to why they should want datacentres? It's the easiest populist slam dunk ever.

yread

a day ago

Oh no all the datacenters will have to be built in Wyoming now

selimthegrim

a day ago

They'll have to get in line behind Louisiana

sensanaty

a day ago

The 7 data center jobs created will surely be a great loss to the community

adaml_623

a day ago

Tell me more about "real economic development"

Is it growing wealth for the country? Will everyone's wealth grow equally or will it mostly concentrate in people who are already wealthy.

Maybe real economic development is something different to you??

zero_shift

a day ago

I don't see why this is downvoted. It is a reasonable question.

We are told this work will grow the economy. When asked how, they point to companies that are losing money hand over fist. It doesn't make sense and voters are not stupid.

bigbadfeline

13 hours ago

> I don't see why this is downvoted. It is a reasonable question.

The sentinels downvote anything that may reveal the truth about the datacenter scheme, no matter how true - no counterpoints, no discussion of any kind, just naked downvoting.

One of my comments was heavily downvoted for pointing out the obvious truth that utility companies are asked to raise rates for building new power plants that are used only for the sole benefit of datacenter owners who demand that everybody should pay for those new plants.

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

Legislation or not, good luck getting those permits.

ghtbircshotbe

a day ago

Musk: "Guess my election-interfering space lasers didn't work this time"

Joking about how you just spent half a billion dollars trying to undermine American democracy (no less as someone with citizenship in 3 countries) is not a great look

cwillu

5 hours ago

After the last decade, you think this is the bad look that sinks the man?

ck2

a day ago

however Florida went nearly 100% maga across all seats

so basically wall to wall datacenters and ice-prisons inbound

they don't have to worry about global warming, they'll waive diesel generator permits

or maybe even start new coal plants for them

also charter-schools, new Governor is on his way to becoming a billionaire from "managing" them

cosmicgadget

a day ago

The big brain move will be to build them at sea level and then get those federal disaster relief finds when then next hurricane submerges them.

ZeroGravitas

a day ago

Why do AI stocks rely on corrupt assholes being in charge?

Seems like a moment for "are we the baddies?" style reflection.

liotier

a day ago

The USA's AI companies have embraced regulatory failure as a shortcut to accelerate physical deployments.

Using onsite fossil fuel electricity generation as primary power source, instead of waiting for the grid to catch up (preferably a decarbonized grid), depends on corrupt assholes being in charge.

throwaw12

a day ago

> Why do AI stocks rely on corrupt assholes being in charge?

Isn't this true about whole US politics, where lobby groups fund elections, so that politician later returns a favor to them?

To make their (lobby groups) job easier, this election theatre has only 2 actors to pick from, imagine how expensive would be if you always had 8-9 real contenders and media didn't control the narrative

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

It's not all rosy in multi-party systems. Those 8-9 candidates are chosen by party leaders, not open-primaries. There is no such thing as a gun rights democrat or a pro-choice republican.

ghtbircshotbe

a day ago

Not sure exactly what your point is. Off the top of my head Peltola is a gun rights Democrat and Collins is a pro choice Republican. Do you mean in non US style governments this can't happen?

Isn't the whole stock market mostly selfish assholes investing into other greedy assholes?

tim333

a day ago

No the bulk of the public invests in some form and much of industry gets funding. It would probably function better without the assholes.

piker

a day ago

That's a motivated take. Obviously the party and candidates which promote less regulation are preferable to the stock market. It doesn't require accusations of corruption, and it doesn't mean their opponents are wrong, either.

alweirilawerj

a day ago

You have a very shallow understanding of economics. "Less regulation" is great if you can't think beyond next quarter. "Good regulation" is what keeps the economy healthy long-term.

piker

a day ago

Perhaps, but that's not really relevant as I am not the stock market.

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

You may not be directly invested in the stock market but you will certainly feel the repercussions to the economy from a crash.

piker

a day ago

I am in the market. I am not the market myself, so my opinion on the efficacy of regulation is of little concern to the debate. One thing is clear though: the election of a deregulation candidate immediately makes market go up, and the inverse. That’s what’s being discussed here, wheee the OP says “must be corruption”.

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

Ideally markets should price rationally, unfortunately they are often driven by human-sentiments, exuberance or dejection.

cosmicgadget

a day ago

Textbook stock market != economy situation.

Shitty-kitty

a day ago

They also have a very short-term outlook. Deregulation of derivatives was great for the market, until it caused a massive financial crisis.

croon

14 hours ago

> Obviously the party and candidates which promote less regulation are preferable to the stock market.

For a while...

In your understanding, what do you think caused the last few recessions?

deaux

a day ago

Abortion bans, book bans, trans bans, voter ID laws and so forth are regulation. It's "regulation for thee but not for me".

piker

a day ago

That's a fair observation, and perhaps requires qualifying my initial point with "non-social" regulation. The market doesn't care about those.

deaux

a day ago

Cannabis stocks certainly care about their anti-cannabis regulation.

You know why I can play this game all day? Because the base premise doesn't hold.

piker

a day ago

Sure, also all the gambling/prediction markets, abortion-adjacent stocks etc. could potentially be down. In terms of the market, though, those industries just don't matter. The lion's share of the economy (energy, finance, technology, tobacco, firearms) benefit from the election of a party that is hostile to their regulation. It's not really debatable. What is debatable is whether that's correct or good, since deregulation allows those organizations to potentially externalize costs to the environment, society, etc.

thrance

a day ago

Republicans are not the party of "less regulation". That's another of these myths they use like "states rights" or "fiscal responsibility".

piker

a day ago

Ok members of one party are proposing rent controls, city-owned groceries, abolition of AI advancement, expansion of the EPA, etc. and the other is revoking long-standing SEC, EPA and other agency regulations. This claim just doesn't hold up.

(I'm a swing voter if that helps.)

Which party created the EPA?

piker

a day ago

I don't know the history. Nixon? Seems like it was motivated in the 1950s. I don't think Richard Nixon was on the ballot this year, but maybe I just missed it.

ethbr1

a day ago

Pretend like Nixon was on the ballot.

thrance

a day ago

Tariffs?

piker

a day ago

Totally disappointing from a citizen (and market?) perspective, but I think you're stretching the meaning of "regulation" to try to squeeze tariffs in. That's like saying war is "regulating" the other country.

Imagine unironically believing this indicates a windfall of ethics to come.

This is where third-worlders have absolutely no illusions. They know how the system works.

technolols

a day ago

[flagged]

cwillu

a day ago

Not my sector, friend.

aabhay

a day ago

Don’t let one bad sector ruin the whole disk

colinb

a day ago

oh oh oh. My time to shine (? shine seems wrong. Cringe? I don't know). Allow me to present https://www.digiater.nl/openvms/doc/alpha-v8.3/ovms_archived..., The VMS Bad Block Utility. In my first real job I had to port this from 32 bit VAX to 64 bit Alpha, which meant recompiling it, then testing it with:

- a SCSI floppy drive (! amazeballs all by itself) - a box of fresh disks - an unfolded paperclip

Method:

- take fresh disk. - pull back spring-loaded protective cover - make scratch on disk with paperclip - insert disk in still experimental Alpha hardware - check for evidence that the bad block utility had run, remapped some (physically damaged) blocks, and gone back to sleep

small_model

a day ago

Let's hope China are benevolent world superpower, looks like they will win the AI race now with Dems grinding the US build out to a halt.

233mhz

a day ago

China living rent free in every single American mind is the funniest shit ever. We should study this, most successful propaganda campaign ever.

nikanj

a day ago

It's easy to get that constant propaganda when every single item you interact with has "Made in China" printed on it

233mhz

a day ago

That's the logical conclusion of globalized capitalism, isn't that what Americans always voted for? Why do they complain about it now? Ah right, they're starting to lose at the game they invented

franktankbank

a day ago

The average American is ~40. This shit kicked off decades before our birth and double that before we had any real say.

small_model

a day ago

'Data centres bad, they use oceans of water everyday, they said it on the news, defund the police, vote Jihadi Communist Party they will provide growth to our economy'

krapp

a day ago

It's just the extension of the Soviets living rent free in every single American mind. Americans can't comprehend a world in which a perfidious communist menace doesn't lurk behind every shadow, whispering anti-Christian and anti-capitalist lies into the virgin ears of their youth.

greggoB

a day ago

> Let's hope China are benevolent world superpower

Don't hold your breath: their human rights record is already in the dumps (see Uyghurs and Tibetans), and they seem to have no problem having all kinda of territorial ambitions (see Taiwan, South China Sea, India and Bhutan, etc).

Add in the authoritarianism and corruption, and I'm pretty sure you have a recipe for a country you absolutely DO NOT want in a position of global power.

bodge5000

a day ago

Not to justify those problems, but there are direct comparisons of those problems in the US. More recently with the human rights issues with ICE, though this is certainly not a new issue it has been ramped up over the years, but territorial ambitions, though less direct, have been US policy for over 60 years. Recently you have Iran and Palestine of course, but the US has been overthrowing democratically elected leaders in particularly South American countries for a while now. As I say, less direct than sending troops in and taking over literally, but installing a puppet leader in these countries is certainly grounds for "territorial ambition".

As I say, I don't want to dismiss what China is doing as "well the US are doing it too", it's just worth pointing out if that's a red line for a global power

greggoB

a day ago

Parent's comment was "Let's hope China are benevolent world superpower" - I provided grounds why they (China) are not, you've provided grounds for why the US is not. The two are mutually exclusive insofar as the US' state of benevolence has no bearing on China's.

Deliberately or not, your comment is an example of whataboutism [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

bodge5000

a day ago

> The two are mutually exclusive insofar as the US' state of benevolence has no bearing on China's.

All due respect, I literally said that, twice. I suppose you could still call it whataboutism by technicality, but it doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

My point was that replacing a benevolent superpower with one that is not is quite a different situation than a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" one, and I was just pointing out that this is the latter, not the former.

greggoB

13 hours ago

You did, but disclaiming a whataboutism doesn't somehow negate elaborating on it.

> My point was that replacing a benevolent superpower with one that is not

I didn't get that from your comment; it rather came across as a laundry list for why the US is not benevolent.

bodge5000

4 hours ago

> disclaiming a whataboutism doesn't somehow negate elaborating on it

I think it largely does. Look at the stated purpose of it in the wikipedia article you linked:

> It is an informal fallacy that the accused party uses to avoid accountability—whether attempting to distract by shifting the conversation's focus away from their behaviour or attempting to justify themselves by pointing to the similar behaviour

Pointing out that China is still responsible for its actions and the US doing it too doesn't justify them makes it whataboutism without a purpose. Like I say, whataboutism by technicality, rather than as a counter-argument.

> I didn't get that from your comment; it rather came across as a laundry list for why the US is not benevolent.

I think it can be quite easily inferred. We don't want China as a superpower because of X. The US is a superpower. The US also does X. Therefore...

Again, I said this at the end:

> it's just worth pointing out if that's a red line for a global power

maxglute

a day ago

By all metrics, PRC objectively, the most benevolent raising power in recorded history.

1. Reeducating/integrating restive minorities instead of actually geocoding them and winning their war on terror without droning all the school children. Nobel Peace prize stuff.

2. Inheriting all border disputes from ROC, then settling 11/13 land, essentially all with more concessions. Even 5 way SCS, PRC first to concede 11 dash down to9 dash. AKA not only did PRC not initiatate any disputes, they settled majority vs reasonable parties and now manages rest vs frankly petulant chidren, i.e. India (bhutan who can't settle because India) and most SCS claimants... TLDR autistic democracies who demand 100% instead of some sort of split - aka utterly retarded position given to losers of wars. This the kind of absurd idiocy PRC magnanimity gracefully handling.

3. We tried flipflop US democracy that still manage to bomb kids under every administration almost every year. I'm sure pretty sure there are better recipes to try.

TLDR: Once you put down the the libtard koolaid, PRC should be getting literally every Nobel Peace prize for how benevolent they've been.

greggoB

13 hours ago

> 1. Reeducating/integrating restive minorities instead of actually geocoding them and winning their war on terror without droning all the school children. Nobel Peace prize stuff.

There are many accounts regarding of and from the Uyghurs which directly contradict this. Also see any of the numerous knife attacks (many targeting school children [0]).

> 2. Inheriting all border disputes from ROC then settling 11/13 land, essentially all with more concessions

It would be news to many of China's neighbours that their border (and sea) disputes are settled [1].

> 3. We tried flipflop US democracy that still manage to bomb kids under every administration almost every year. I'm sure pretty sure there are better recipes to try.

America notoriously has a problem with school shootings, not bombings.

> TLDR: Once you put down the the libtard koolaid, PRC should be getting literally every Nobel Peace prize for how benevolent they've been.

Antipathy towards China goes across the political spectrum - if anything, it's more associated with conservative hawks.

If you disagree with arguments that China is the antithesis of a benevolent super-power, that is your right. But the manner of your comment is not conducive to a productive discussion in this regard.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_attacks_in_Chin... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_China

user

8 hours ago

[deleted]

Yeah don't hold your breath.

The heavy anti-datacenter campaigning was primarily aimed at scaring votes out of old people and other low-information voters, and was largely successful. With that mission accomplished it's back to business as usual.

I personally observed old ladies gossiping at the polls. A lot of them don't even know what data centers are, just that they are bad and will steal their electricity and make their arthritis worse.

All politicians regardless of party are bought and paid for.

Literally every instance I've seen where the angry townspeople fought against a data center, the town council unanimously ruled against them without a vote, like the kangaroo court in The Godfather Part 2.

zero_shift

a day ago

Then those who believe specific datacenters need to be built should provide better arguments.

If anything the pro-build people should be for regulation so that citizens can know a local buildout means no power outages, water shortages etc. - preventing communities from rejecting DCs for purely defensive reasons.

It's clear the AI companies have not managed the message here, they have fumbled the politics. This is a deserved loss on their part.

potamic

a day ago

I don't think the debate is so much about whether to build data centers as much about where to build them. In an ideal setting, the government identifies land suitable for industrial purpose, carves out dedicated zones, provisioned with necessary power and utilities, where industries can go and setup without intruding into somebody's status quo. The data center buildout at this time is happening at such a pace that they've has exhausted most of the existing zoned options, and unwilling to wait for new zones to be planned, are going out purchasing ad-hoc pieces of land and covertly having them rezoned for industrial purposes. This might sometimes might mean industries popping up behind somebody's residence or in an already resource constrained area. If you look deep, it's actually a fight between those who want to bypass urban planning in the interest of speeding up industrial development versus those who insist it is necessary.

You're expecting a nuanced debate from an electorate that has had this distilled into a purely Boolean issue: bad or good

zero_shift

a day ago

Again, you are framing this as something done to the DC builders, rather than a discourse they are part of.

They have had 3+ years to make this argument, and they knew they needed to advocate for their own businesses. So why did they instead join in on the chorus of "we're going to take your jobs, teeheehee"?

It's an absolute own goal. If you want DCs built, direct your ire at the AI companies for reckless messaging.

nikanj

a day ago

The position of a pro-build democrat is untenable, when their running mates have successfully painted datacenters as dark portals to the ninth level of hell

1659447091

a day ago

> The heavy anti-datacenter campaigning was primarily aimed at scaring votes out of old people and other low-information voters, and was largely successful.

That doesn't explain data center's being explicitly rejected by local voters[0] who, in many of those places, also voted for their districts candidates that supported data centers, such as in FL and OH.

[0] https://datacentersontheballot.com

cosmicgadget

a day ago

> All politicians regardless of party are bought and paid for.

Unnecessarily cynical but even if it were true the major parties have different ideas on holding their elected accountable.

piokoch

a day ago

I think you are oversimplifying the situation. The problem were not data centers per se, but Mr. Paxton, who, except being a rather horrible person (his own party tried to get rid of him) was taking money from lobbyists and then was trying to push their agenda without taking into account any concerns.

I should clarify: I'm not talking about Texas; this trope was used across the country this election cycle, even at the most local of local elections.

Dog-catcher candidates were taking disingenuous anti-datacenter stances if they thought it could get them votes.