This post really fails to go beyond basic headlines.

> Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back.

These are both signs of a maturing market. It's a good thing that DCFC operators like Ionna, Walmart, etc. are still charging ahead at a pretty rapid pace, even without federal funding. Ionna especially has been deploying at a crazy speed.

> Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards.

Litigation on this is still playing out. If car manufacturers aren't planning for these to swing back into force with a change of government, they are fooling themselves.

> Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments.

Again, not true. Some investments like battery manufacturing, sure, but that's not what they were ever good at. GM has a pretty robust line of EVs, and Ford has bet big on their new platform underpinning on their new 'affordable' truck.

> Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.

2023 was a stand out year for them, but it's not like they are falling off a cliff. We should expect Tesla sales to fall as other competitors like Rivian, Hyundai/Kia and even Toyota/Subaru release updated offerings.

That's just false. I don't think US automakers outside of Tesla have done well with EVs to date, but Ford went back to the drawing board a few years ago and is now near to releasing it's revamped EV platform that they believe will be actually competitive: https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/universal-electric-ve...

> Comparing it to the US isn’t really meaningful considering the EV market here is on life support.

I think that's the thing being pointed out...

Charging infrastructure is blossoming. It is funded by private companies. Roadtripping in an EV is pretty seamless now. I'm driving to Death Valley in a couple of weeks. Plenty of charging options along the way.

> 2024 is probably going to be the peak of the US EV market

peak ever? no way. you can only think that if you havent been paying attention at all as to whats going on in the rest of the world. The EV transition is assured, the only variable is how long it takes a market to realize. The US can only resist gravity for so long.

Ford is launching an EV pickup for like $30k to compete with the Slate pickup. Doesn't seem like Ford is giving up.

Given the high gas prices in the US, one would think the govt would be doubling down on EVs...

Until this troglodyte administration is done. EVs are the future, the US will have to make the change at some point.

If Trump hadn’t petulantly killed the EV subside, hundreds of thousands of additional EVs would be on American roads today. That’s hundreds of thousands of voters who wouldn’t be reacting to gas prices.

Our lucky streak as America—Russia blowing itself up, China going wolf warrior right when they needed to build alliances—may continue in our wannabe fascist being so fucking stupid.

> Comparing it to the US isn’t really meaningful considering the EV market here is on life support.

A couple more Middle East wars from Republicans and the resulting gas prices will help push electrification forward. semi-/s

The average consumer isn’t going to buy an electric car for climate reasons - they’re going to buy it to save money. So they want it cheap and they want to not have to wait ages for it to charge. The Chinese cars deliver on both fronts (provided sufficient infrastructure for fast charging). If the car doesn’t last 10 years that’s okay if they’re saving enough money.

I'm sort of reminded of the Regular Car Reviews review of the Geo Metro, where he spent the first maybe 5 minutes of the video trying to manage viewers expectations. So he talked for a while about judging a thing based on how good it is at being what it's trying to be, not how bad it is at being something else. And then he talked for a while about how the Geo Metro's entire purpose is to be as economical as possible.

And then he spent the rest of the review talking about all the features that people typically hated on, but in a positive light. Because if your primary goal is to make the cheapest car, with the highest fuel economy, for the benefit of people who don't have a whole lot of spending money, those were exactly the design compromises to be making.

> spending money on them considering how low/cheap quality the interiors are

Because that's the point. It's a cheap reliable car that cut corners for high $$$ ROI fleet cars. There's reason most of PRC taxi fleet converted to BYD EVs over last 10 years. It's statistically battle proven and economical, they'll 500,000km like ICE fleet cars and save 30k USD - on fuel + maintenance savings alone you can buy another 2 fleet BYDs. Like a fleet operator would have to be economically stupid to not go for BYD tier EV. You get to enjoy cheap seats.

It's bringing EVs to the masses. There's so much potential in places like Europe and Latin America, where most consumers don't drive big SUVs and trucks. Apparently battery packs were about $1,200 per kWh in 2010, today it's $140/kWh. EVs are finally becoming mainstream

Does it get you to point A and B? Is it an EV? Is it cheaper than the options currently available? If yes some people will say it’s worth it.

I don't know the model exactly but every Uber (maybe six of them?) I was in in Mexico City was the same model BYD and it was really plasticky and they all rattled on every bump in the road.

Maybe their more expensive models are better but they're damaging their brand putting it on those cars.

Bought a BYD, cross shopped it with some Mazdas and Toyotas. For less money we got more fruit, a full BEV and the Japanese brands materials were equivalent or worse.

Toyota interiors in particular are hard plastic monstrosities.

Well, they're cheap cars aren't they? That's often the single most important thing.

Other people can't fathom why people buy Android phones instead of Apple.

When American companies cut costs we call it innovation.

I can. There’s no other equivalent in south east Asia. They are consistent, they are cheap to operators, they have a viable and trusted dealer network and are cheap to purchase with immediate upsides.

Have you priced a similar car like a Toyota vios or Yaris or Honda hrv or brv. These are ICE and gas is what, in the Philippines 2$.gallon?

The only viable alternative that is non Chinese for South east Asia is ironically Vinfast, which are available in the USA and quite ibexpensively.

If you’re biggest claim is the “sear” and the “trunk bedding” you are missing the entire point of what this car is and it’s market position.

But hey, this is how propaganda works.

They just need to last 3 years on a PCP for most people. No-one buys cars any more.

It's really not much different than most cars people use every day. Nothing weird is happening with my seats. (Sealion 7) And I put 40kg+ in the boot without problems either. I've not seen reports of this being a problem overall - maybe you just got very unlucky?

I get not liking something for personal preference reasons, but going as far as garbage and cheap quality in this case just... doesn't match reality. It's a perfectly fine car that works. Lots of people are happy with it.

I've had a BYD Sealion 6 for 1.5 years in Australia and no such issues till now

I feel like they are literally Tesla replicas. I thought fit and finish inside the few I’ve been in over the last 2 years or so was pretty good.

I’d still take it over the obscene prices of electric cars in the American market.

40kg is heavy, two medium plates in weighlifting.

I imagine for many consumers the choice is between the BYD or no car at all.

Think you're thinking of a Model 3

What models? The mid and top-tier models are on par with entry-level Euro, for half the price.

My Sealion 7 is nicer than my C-Class Mercedes.

I spend a lot of time in Asia so I’ve been in dozens and dozens of BYDs while taking Grab rides.

I agree on the low build quality, but one thing that I’ve noticed as well is the atrocious ride quality. Hitting a small speed bump results in a jarring shock for the passenger combined with a loud clunk from the car.

I thought it was the road until I road in a few Toyotas over the same road and the speed bump was a gentle rocking of the car.

Not sure if it’s just a consequence of the battery weight or what but it feels like I’m riding in pickup truck when I’m in a BYD

So you don't see past the leather seats?

(That approximately nobody outside the US really cares about)

This is not the place to have a negative opinion.

>USA is fast on track Great Britain track.

The US economy has basically been taken over by venture capital and they're milking all the assets and value that they can. It's all short term thinking. Hype economy so the rich can cash out.

That doesn't seem to be too far off from the status quo for typical American cars, which are fully capable of being totaled by a collision that only damages the bumper.

https://financeliterate.blog/can-fender-bender-total-car-ins...

Not exactly related to overall component maintenance, but this guy became a small YouTube celebrity for having a 200.000 miles BYD Dolphin with 87% battery health and no major issues. He get comments from many other owners (mostly Uber drivers) having similar experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0CmwEJwaz8

Analysis is available for 5 years at https://driveauthority.com/is-byd-reliable-after-5-years/ , including actual maintenance costs over the period. No empirical evidence for 10 years yet of course. You certainly do want to buy expecting it to last for a couple of decades because the deprecation rate is really high (maybe because the tech has been moving so fast).

that's the new reality with a lot of modern vehicles. i'm not naming the brand here but a guy who's very familiar with one of the EV brands' manufacturing process told me the same thing that you posted. even a small fender bender is more than enough to total a car.

Dealer where I bought my Renault Megane e-Tech mentioned one of the Chinese brands they also sell had a headlight unit that cost 60k NOK (about $6k) to replace, plus labor...

So yeah, better have good insurance and hope it doesn't just die on you I suppose.

So the automotive equivalent of a MacBook or iPhone.

The real story here is the splintering of "the west". The US doesn't want to move forward, but UK, Europe, AU/NZ all do.

It's not clear to me where Canada stands on this issue. I know they're an exporter of fuel to the US, so perhaps they are more US aligned on this? Sadly, I think this highlights the problem with Carney's middle powers idea - it's difficult to all work together when you have competing interests.

The west? As far as I am concerned, EU moves towards EVs as well. Not as fast as China does, but it does. It's the US that doubles down on ICEs (pun intended).

> The west doesn’t want to move forward and instead are doubling down on fossil fuel energy

The west? You mean the USA. Europe is happy to leave the past behind.

A lot of the fossil fuel industry is interested in people switching to electric. Not every one of them produces automotive gasoline after all.

The US is a bit of an outlier in "the west". They have extreme protectionist trade barriers to protect the local auto industry and fossil fuel producers. Most other "western" countries have a more Laissez-faire approach. Ironically the biggest driver for EV sales at the moment is high oil prices caused by US military action.

The US is simultaneously driving global EV adoption and the crazy growth of Chinese automotive technology and manufacturing and stranding their own automotive sector in the past. A lot of people who thought Trump was going to be a disaster are seeing him as an unwitting ally now.

You realize that “the west” is not just the United States, right? There are plenty of western countries around the world where EV sales are exploding. The Nordic countries and Australia come immediately to mind.

Australia has also seen an immense uptake in residential solar and batteries, driven by tariff-free imports from China.

China is the one doubling down on fossil fuels. They are commissioning several coal plants. Meanwhile, the us is still reducing CO2 emission (us is currently at pre-WWI levels) and the mix of renewables is increasing.

"the West" geographically yes but the Australian public is hoovering up EVs right now.

Whoever hits the right window on an electric ute is going to make bank (it's probably more about getting another battery price reduction at this point so you can throw energy at the aerodynamics and range issues).

It's less an industry thing and more a war thing. US wants to fight more wars and for that you need a plentiful supply of portable energy that other countries can't block. For physical wars that's petroleum fuels. By controlling "Greater North America" they can secure their cheap fuel supply and hunker down here. Investing in green energy would de-emphasize the infrastructure you need to process and use massive amounts of oil for cheap.

Have you seen the Xiaomi SU7 yet? It's a very nice piece of kit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdSusCDZcDg

I was in Montevideo this weekend and all car service cars I rode were Chinese EVs. They all seemed great and when I had Claude look up pricing they were all very well-priced. While I myself would loe a BYD Seagull or Dolphin, the more expensive ones like the Greely EX5 looked much cooler than much more expensive cars I see on roads in the US.

Same. The only brand I know that even comes close is Kia but even then they don't have many EV's and the cost is still pretty high compared to BYD.

They have some minor problems like axis falling off.

You need to go to China then. There are dozens of manufacturers other than BYD. It's astonishing just how many sexy EVs there are driving around in China.

The Koenigsegg CCGT1 looks quite nice.

> BYD is basically the only car company that has showed off cars I would like to buy.

They're not bad when you're in them but they're not amazing either. The thing is: they're incredibly good value compared to other brand new cars.

But the interior of a great many german cars (for example) is still qualitatively not just a bit but way above BYD.

Why?

I think the only Chinese EV that interests me is the Xiaomi SU7, and even then I'm extremely unlikely to ever buy one.

That's why you myst tariff them to protect America capitalism

I would hazard that they'll buy their way into the local market: partner with a Big 3 manufacturer, build a plant somewhere in the South, and then sell a car 50% more expensive than what they sell in Mexico.

I've been seeing more and more JAC small pickup trucks (diesel though, not electric) around Austin lately. I think people are bringing them up from Mexico.

Is there a point where they have no choice?

US is less than 19% of the global auto market. It’s unfortunate, but the rest of the world will get them.

BYD is having another ten car carriers built to support growing exports. They’ll be the world‘s biggest auto maker in the next five years.

BYD expands EV shipping fleet as wars upend freight costs and key trade routes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50333037 - November 2026

- The world’s largest electric vehicle maker will expand its fleet of car-carrying cargo ships to 18 from eight by 2029, according to shipping industry reports. Each new carrier will have the capacity to carry about 9,200 cars and will be built by China Merchants Industry.

- Owning its fleet could cut BYD’s cost to ship each car abroad by as much as 40% compared with renting carriers, according to one industry estimate. BYD’s increasing export capacity could help it push further into global markets, intensifying competition for automakers including Tesla and traditional U.S. brands.

https://cnevpost.com/2026/09/07/byd-targets-2-5-million-over...

- BYD aims to sell more than 2.5 million vehicles overseas in 2027, extending its rapid international growth through a larger shipping fleet and increased production abroad

- Its Indonesian plant has started production, its Brazilian plant is ramping toward annual capacity of 300,000 vehicles, and its Hungarian plant is expected to begin assembly in November or December, Deutsche Bank noted.

I would say it's actually more complicated than that. Here is a good video that goes over the situation, and multiple perspectives on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nim61oVLdwk

TL;DR They severely reduced the number of components by integrating parts into larger pieces. This trades upfront cost savings for longevity concerns and repair prices down the road.

One could argue the US wants to ban them solely because it undercuts other manufacturers, but there's more.

You can also argue it's not good for many other people, like:

- the average consumer (that expects a quality long-lasting product)

- the insurance companies that will be footing a lot of the repair bills

- independent repair shops that either won't get those jobs, cannot actually perform the work due to tech/service monopolies, or simply lose revenue because the work is shorter

One bellweather reason for this state being impressive is that this is china's domestic market demonstrating the buying power needed to fuel private innovation

This used to be something only the US could do. China always had the population. But it wasnt rich enough to create local demand. Now it can and that creates a flywheel effect of feuling its own innovation, like EVs, LLMs, reusable rockets, sattelite ISPs, and all the other thingsthe US prides itself on.

And eventually it might even make novel things the US or anyone else hasnt even made yet. If that happens then the american empire is truly over

BYD is also expected to export 2.5 million vehicles outside China this year. They are the largest manufacturer of EVs in the world, and not just for the Chinese market.

> don't truly realize how utterly dense and populated[] Chinese cities are

- A US and a China professor are talking in a bar. "We have about 10,000 students" they agree. But no, one is thinking of their university, the other of their department.

- Population of Wyoming < Louisville, KY (KY's largest city). Pop KY < NYC. Pop US Northeast region < Pearl River Delta megalopolis. PRD is sort of like a 20x compressed US Southeast, with 2x lower GDP.

There is staggering number of consumer debt in us because people buy luxury cars they can’t afford. We don’t need more 100k evs. We need 20k evs.

Have you had a chance to ride in the Chinese EVs? Opinions on exterior designs are pretty subjective and change a lot over time (see: Porsche 996). I've driven and ridden in a lot of Chinese EVs over the past two years and find them much more luxurious than ICE cars across the price range. Most of them have huge panoramic sunroofs now that make even the small cars feel open and spacious, the technology is actually useful instead of a gimmick (Chinese navigation apps are way better than western ones, which is a big deal when the primary interface is a tablet), many of the cars can autopark/drive, they have cameras for all the blind spots, USB-c and magnetic chargers everywhere, fast charging, etc. etc.

I would encourage anyone that lives in America or Europe and hasn't been to China in the past five years to go see it for yourself. Take what western media writes with a grain of salt - you might be surprised.

Car makers can't win! Release an EV with "personality" aka looks different from an ICE, and people will complain why can't they make an EV that looks like a normal car. Release an EV that looks like a normal ICE and someone's going to complain it has no personality. Ah well.

The BMW i4 is probably what you're looking for.

I think it's a huge regression vs. the goofy looking i3 (which is carbon fiber, has a working jog wheel, etc). The i4 is basically exactly a modern BMW sedan, but an EV. I think they moved to a platform that lets them just switch between ICE, hybrid and EV. You can even set the safety tone to make it sound like a BMW with tuned exhaust pipes.

Luxury seems like a tricky move for EVs. All those extra features add weight, which eats into range. I would guess that undermines your own sales pitch because people who want to spend a lot on their car are generally going to be people who expect to spend a lot of time in their car.

I imagine it's just a fundamentally more palatable compromise for an ICE vehicle. You maybe bump the size of the fuel tank a bit and assume your clientele aren't going to be all that much more cost sensitive about fuel than they are about sticker price and maintenance.

The Cadillac Escalade IQ is… a Cadillac Escalade with an electric powertrane. It is as nice as any of the brands mentioned.

The Lucid gravity is in the same discussion.

Lexus is releasing the TZ which is the equivalent to the TX gasser.

> yet to see an actual premium EV akin

thats because there is zero demand as has been all over the news the past years. the european and especially german car industry wasted billions on EV strategies that now have to be rewound because it turns out there is basically zero demand for expensive EVs. people that can afford expensive cars want ICE.

Have you looked at Polestars? They're nicer than any ICE car I've ever driven.

>I've yet to see an actual premium EV akin to the ICE cars from Lexus, Acura, or Genesis.

I drive a Polestar 4, which stands up very nicely to any Lexus/Genesis/Acura. So does the Lucid.

Not to mention the Porsche Taycan. And the Macan EV is essentially the same as their ICE Macan.

Maybe you don't like EVs - that's fine. Everyone has their taste. After switching to an EV I'm never going back to an ICE car again.

> EV akin to the ICE cars from [...] Genesis.

What about the EV Genesis? I personally couldn't see the difference between the ICE and electrified G80.

Otherwise, what about the Taycan?

> an actual premium EV

Porsche Taycan.

This article from last wednesday seems to say the opposite, that the China-domestic sales are declining: https://www.cnbc.com/2026/10/28/china-car-exports.html

Europe is nowhere near flooded. You are out of your mind.

It’s not flooded, most ev car are Europeans. And the commission just recently put a quota on the number of imported Chinese EV.

I mean, do you really think they were banned for national security reasons? Or to protect Tesla and US ICE manufacturers?

We in the EU do take it more seriously, hence the switch from unreliable US based tech to local or Chinese.

It’s amazing to me Waymo saw the estimated 50000-80000 tariff penalty (and time and money invested for essentially reinstalling electronics ) in their latest fleet worth it. American sourced options must really pale in comparison or be non existent and I wish I could just write off auto tariffs like that.

Same for Europe. Same car is 3x cheaper in China. The western consumer is paying a lot of money keeping the auto industry on life support.

> Everybody saw this coming

It basically started in the 70s with the outsourcing of manufacturing to China, and the short term thinking and naivete (hubris?) that China would not do anything and everything to use this to their global strategic advantage. Sure, lots of US executives made _mother-fucking bank_ but the massive amounts of money they made was essentially for the sale of US dominance to China over the course of 50 years. They can say "I got mine" though, which seems to be current zeitgeist.

China wins because playing the long game wins - or having X billion expendable population under a dictatorship wins - possibly/probably the combination of both.

There are plenty of other reasons. Humanitarianism is a big one, but there are others.

EVs connect to people's home wifi and they are probably the most powerful compute on the network. You claim to be Infosec, yet cannot fathom any issues here?

The thing about protectionism is that sometimes it works. Also China is definitely not playing any kind of a fair game. Also adding another supply chain dependency is definitely a geopolitical risk.

> There is no security risk from Chinese EVs that requires a full ban.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to [map] you.

Of course there is a risk to allowing networked automobile sensor packages on your streets if they're feeding a potential adversary live info on everything going on on and around your roads. Denying this isn't virtuous or smart or benevolent, it is at the best naïve.

Disagree... they're a lot more integrated than other cars, meaning less parts in a way, which is cheaper to buy, but much more expensive to repair later.

Consumers want protection from cars they can't afford to fix.

Insurance companies want protection from costly warranty repairs.

Mechanics want protection from cheap highly-integrated gatekept parts that they can't work on, and/or won't get paid as much for.

I mean, right, but the word "protectionism" isn't the end of the argument. US-China trade relations are conducted in the context of the extremely serious problem that one day not too long from now China will rupture them by invading Taiwan. The US has to protect itself from that.