ethanj8011
a day ago
Scored 100% on a Pangram of the first few paragraphs.
Things that alerted me. (Note that any one of these things could be fine and explainable, but so many in short order makes it obvious).
> And it rang. We both did our jobs.
What is the human's job here? Waking up?
> the whole morning minute by minute, as if someone had laid it out on a table and labeled every piece.
Labored metaphor that doesn't add anything. Laid out a minute? On a table? Even if we accept the non physical metaphor for style, how does that add anything on top of "minute by minute".
> I made two pieces of toast. The left one burned. The left one in my toaster always burns; my toaster has a favorite side.
This sort of short staccato phrasing is an LLM smell. It's hard to describe why precisely and how it varies from natural human text, but LLMs like to do this when writing fiction, especially when told to "write with a good style, don't write like an LLM."
areoform
a day ago
This is just good writing. The kind that AI is meant to emulate. Alas we're at an age where writing well is identical to writing like a machine.
I suggest polite rebellion. Write well. Get better than the machines.
jihadjihad
a day ago
> This is just good writing. The kind that AI is meant to emulate. Alas we're at an age where writing well is identical to writing like a machine.
Literally none of these statements are true.
hndc
a day ago
But it's bad writing, as GP points out. The second paragraph is particularly confusing—its central metaphor is clumsy (in my experience LLMs struggle with metaphors).
That said, maybe it's an artifact of being machine-translated from the original Russian.
areoform
19 hours ago
Let me make the author's case as they aren't here to defend themselves. This is the paragraph,
> I still don't know why I remember it in such detail. I used to forget what I'd had for dinner the night before. And now I remember the whole morning minute by minute, as if someone had laid it out on a table and labeled every piece. Apparently I have a lot of free time now.
They set expectations with, "I still don't know why I remember it in such detail"Then they set up the comparator to the past, "I used to forget what I'd had for dinner the night before" which is actually doing double work, because it also means that they were so busy that they used to forget what they had dinner.
This creates the character assumption that the person was / is a workaholic.
> And now I remember the whole morning minute by minute
Heavily hinting that the person has been made redundant, because they've gone from forgetting what they had for dinner (as they'd munch along) to remembering their morning by the minute instead of being stressed by work. > as if someone had laid it out on a table and labeled every piece
Need for mechanical precision. This person is most likely autistic / nerdy. > Apparently I have a lot of free time now.
And now the final blow. It's because they're now effectively unemployed. Why? AI. They have a job on paper, but it's uncertain / doesn't truly exist.It's incredibly concise and well written story telling. I haven't seen LLMs do punchy writing like this since GPT-4o days.
armchairhacker
9 hours ago
It’s the imitation of good writing, only good on the surface.
grey-area
a day ago
This is terrible writing, and if you can't tell, there is something deeply wrong.
_verandaguy
a day ago
Parts of this read like the early internal monologue sections of Cryptonomicon. Terrible or not, it's distinctive.
grey-area
a day ago
Having used Claude a fair bit, it reads like the very distinct style Claude settles on when it tries to write fiction. I mean it's hugely improved from the early attempts of LLMs to create fiction (remember the adverbs!), but it's still pretty awful.
the_af
21 hours ago
> This is terrible writing, and if you can't tell, there is something deeply wrong.
This is subjective. Countless times in the history of human literature a piece of writing has been called garbage -- or at least, flawed -- by some authority, only to later become lauded as a great piece of writing. So not being able to tell (or in this case, to match your own taste) is simply par for the course.
Remember all that's been written about Shakespeare's Hamlet and his use of mixed metaphors, "[...] or to take arms against a sea of troubles [...]". What? How do you take arms against the sea? And why was it before "slings and arrows", what does that have to do with the sea? Mixed metaphors are a sin, etc, etc.
grey-area
11 hours ago
Well I think the verdict on Shakespeare is in, and it's positive. I assume you've read some, if you have you'd know that the positives outweigh any minor negatives. We still use some of his phrases today.
Of course Shakespeare made mistakes or made allusions that contemporary audiences struggle to understand, and he's not the be all and end all of writing in English. Saying judgement is subjective does not mean judgement is useless or impossible. He's pretty good though and you can tell when you read him, it's gripping, human, and tight; the antithesis of LLM writing.
Back to this particular text. From the start, it smells of AI:
> That morning I woke up at 6:58, two minutes before the alarm. I lay there and waited for it to ring. And it rang. We both did our jobs.
Short choppy sentences more suited to advertising than prose, ambiguity without purpose, pointless personification, melodrama and tension over the most mundane details. One para perhaps could be a bizarre stylistic choice, but it continues like this for the whole passage.
It's possible this was written by a human so steeped in the language generated by LLMs they don't know what is human and real any more, but it seems much more likely it's a translation which was translated by LLM and 'improved' by taking its style suggestions, or simply generated/written by the LLM based on a much shorter prompt.
However the most important thing is not who wrote it, but the quality of the writing, and I think the verdict of most people disagrees with you.
the_af
8 hours ago
I think you missed the point of what I was saying about Shakespeare.
> However the most important thing is not who wrote it, but the quality of the writing, and I think the verdict of most people disagrees with you.
"Most people"? Please, show me where "most people" are saying this. Where's the verdict, are you keeping a tally? "Most people" don't agree on anything, either here in HN or elsewhere.
Are you the arbiter of what "most people" consider a good writing style?
grey-area
8 hours ago
The votes are keeping tally, seems pretty clear, but it's only internet points, feel free to disagree with me on this writing, I don't like it.
the_af
8 hours ago
I think it's fair to say you didn't like it. I don't like a lot of literature.
I don't see the points that state people disagreed with me, I see 188 upvotes to this story and many comments saying they liked it.
If you meant downvotes to my own comment, they mean nothing. Before, I had +4. Now I don't. I also got downvoted for explaining to someone this is a piece of fiction (hopefully you'll agree with me there is something wrong with anyone who can't understand this), yet I ate some downvotes anyway.
The comment that you wrote that if someone cannot see this is bad writing there's something "deeply wrong" is simply absurd.
isoprophlex
a day ago
i wrote three paragraphs of a management summary today, fully by hand, and got 100% ai back from pangram. ymmv.
ethanj8011
a day ago
I agree that pangram is not infallible. It has a reported FP rate of like 1/10,000, which is decidedly not zero! Having used AI to write fiction before, and working with LLMs all day, I do feel pretty confident in my ability to detect them. Pangram is just a way to make sure I am not totally ungrounded. Moreover, I don't actually particularly care if someone uses an LLM in the process of writing their work. What I care about is how it sounds. This story reads like an LLM wrote it, optimizing towards what a novice writer would find appealing.
YeGoblynQueenne
7 hours ago
As I was reading it occurred to me, too, that I'm reading something written by an LLM. I was not sure and I'm still not sure, and nothing says that your "tells" are exclusive to LLMs.
The point though is that regardless of whether this was written by an LLM or not, the reason that I thought it might be, is that I found the writing really poor. Not to say that all poor writing is LLMs but I guess that doesn't rally matter. Bad writing is bad writing.
SirFatty
a day ago
It seems you have more time on your hands than the author.
ethanj8011
a day ago
Is the joke that it took me like 3 minutes to write this? If so, I think that's a bit unfair to the author. I think this is something that was at least shaped. But I feel very confident its LLM written. If it isn't LLM written, then I also think it is bad writing, but that's a separate point.
CobrastanJorji
a day ago
I think they were supporting you -- you had free time because you carefully evaluated whether the random story you came across was AI. The 'author' did not have free time because they asked an AI to generate a story instead of writing one theirself.
the_real_cher
a day ago
The author was an LLM.
resource0x
a day ago
The original appears to be written in Russian (there's a toggle in the heading). In Russian, it sounds quite good, I coudn't detect any smell at all. Sure, good writing style these days always raises suspicion. :-)
WesolyKubeczek
a day ago
The text read to me like it was, first and foremost, a translation from Russian. It wasn't the names that gave it away to me. It was the text itself. Even in English, it had unmistakable Russianness all over it. I switched the blog language to Russian. Didn't feel like an LLM. Felt rather like written by someone who had read a lot of Viktor Pelevin or maybe Leonid Kaganov.
yablokoffya
a day ago
I'm pretty sure it was. The wordplay on the Russian “пока” meaning both "goodbye" and "for now" (as in "not yet") is key here
booty
a day ago
Oooooh. This seems key. (As an aside, I think "until later" could be a good English translation?)
ethanj8011
a day ago
Oh! I mean that could be a good explanation. Written in another language and then translated over via LLM.
JeremyNT
5 hours ago
Before checking the comments I read a couple of paragraphs, but ultimately just closed the tab without finishing it. This was not because I specifically suspected an LLM, but because it just wasn't "working" for me, for reasons I couldn't articulate.
Is this because it's slop? Or because it's a (possibly bad) translation? I can't really say, but regardless this piece was not resonating.
tantalor
a day ago
100% Human or 100% AI?
lifeisloving
a day ago
Just speaking english as a second language will cause your writing to trigger Pangram detectors, for whatever reason. Its a dumb platform meant to scam universities who think it works.
quietbritishjim
a day ago
Having English as a second language won't cause you to add a bunch of laboured pointless metaphors.
girvo
a day ago
No, but a lot of Russian writers are a fan of them I find, and this reads as LLM translated from Russian to me
the_af
a day ago
The story itself is decent and competently written, see how it keeps track of the analogies and phrases by different characters (wrapping it all up in the end, tying the "no-man's minute" or how the ex wife told him he was always somewhere else than here). If an un-assisted LLM did this, I'd be surprised. I think there may have been LLM-assistance to polish it up (maybe) but there are some human ideas in here. I'd be interested in the author clarifying this.
OzFreedom
a day ago
The sad thing is that an LLM can't really polish a story. "Polishing" is the most important stylistic work. Even a rough hard to read story is superior to one polished by an LLM.
ethanj8011
a day ago
I think the theory posed above (that the original story is in Russian) makes a lot of sense.
nvader
a day ago
You are a potato.
the_af
a day ago
> What is the human's job here? Waking up?
Yes. Waking up, or waiting for the alarm to ring. Also, "what is the human's job" is sort of the theme of the piece, so it's a very relevant question to ask and, in my opinion, doesn't demonstrate AI involvement if the story made you ask it.
> the whole morning minute by minute, as if someone had laid it out on a table and labeled every piece.
> Labored metaphor that doesn't add anything. Laid out a minute? On a table? Even if we accept the non physical metaphor for style, how does that add anything on top of "minute by minute".
You left out the first part, "And now I remember the whole morning minute by minute [...]". Remembering a stretch of time (the morning) "minute by minute" makes a lot of sense, it's not even a metaphor. The metaphor actually is laying it out "on a table" and labelling "every piece", which explains the situation: the main character can remember the morning extremely well, as if it was a physical object someone helpfully labeled for ease of remembering and identification.
> This sort of short staccato phrasing is an LLM smell
But also a very well-known style of human writing. Comedians like Dave Barry use it all the time. Also, of course, Hemingway.
Now, I'm not arguing this isn't written by AI (or translated with AI, or whatever); it could very well be! I just find your evidence of AI prose extremely unconvincing.
sublinear
19 hours ago
The short staccato phrasing is exhausting to read regardless of who or what writes that slop.
It's always been considered bad writing, and strongly reminds me of a elementary student trying to hit their word quota for an essay.
the_af
18 hours ago
> The short staccato phrasing [...] has always been considered bad writing
No, it hasn't. It's a distinctive style that some writers use. Like everything in life, it can be used wrongly, but staccato phrasing isn't "always considered bad writing". Consider this:
---
“What’s yours?” George asked them.
“I don’t know,” one of the men said. “What do you want to eat, Al?”
“I don’t know,” said Al. “I don’t know what I want to eat.”
Outside it was getting dark. The street-light came on outside the window. The two men at the counter read the menu. From the other end of the counter Nick Adams watched them. He had been talking to George when they came in.
“I’ll have a roast pork tenderloin with apple sauce and mashed potato,” the first man said.
“It isn’t ready yet.”
“What the hell do you put it on the card for?”
“That’s the dinner,” George explained. “You can get that at six o’clock.”
George looked at the clock on the wall behind the counter.
“It’s five o’clock.”
“The clock says twenty minutes past five,” the second man said.
“It’s twenty minutes fast.”
“Oh, to hell with the clock,” the first man said. “What have you got to eat?”
---
As an aside, I link badly written student homework with purple prose and elaborate sentences that lead nowhere, rather than with punchy staccato style.
ethanj8011
17 hours ago
I don't know how to describe but this example to me is fundamentally completely different and I don't think it is bad writing (though obviously I have no context outside the style). The dialogue especially helps.
I agree that short staccato phrasing is not inherently bad. I think it's just how it is used, and that when AI chooses to write in that style it is often "bad" in some sort of way I have trouble defining precisely.
the_af
7 hours ago
I agree my example is better. It's Hemingway after all, a fragment of "The Killers".
My point is this style of bursts of short sentences, without flowery language, is a style some acknowledged writers do use in real life. It's not, by itself, a mark of bad quality or AI writing. In fact, ChatGPT uses way more elaborate sentences in its replies to my queries (and it drives me nuts).
loopmonster
a day ago
This is unreadable
> "Forty percent chance of precipitation." I never understood what forty percent of rain meant.
You don't understand the world's most understandable statement?
> On Monday my manager wrote in the team chat: "On Friday we'll discuss roles." No emoji. For three days I wondered what my role was.
Three whole days with no contact with your manager at all? Zero opportunity to ask anything amongst all the other activities and communication?
> And now I remember the whole morning minute by minute
You have a perfect-as-if-traumatic memory of specifically the day that your manager sent a cryptic message in chat that you didn't follow up on for three days?
> With a shirt, at least, everything is defined: here's the collar, here are the sleeves, here's the crease that shouldn't be there.
Oh, you're going to love when you discover other objects. Just you wait.
phyzome
21 hours ago
The precipitation thing is actually pretty unintuitive. Go look up the actual definition and tell me if that's what you expected.
the_af
19 hours ago
I often wonder about the chance of precipitation, what exactly does it mean? Not looking for an explanation here, I'm just saying I found this bit very relatable.
Three whole days with no contact with your manager, while not a good sign, is not that unlikely. I've gone with weeks. Again, not usually a good sign, but this person is describing a bad time, with a hint of "AI made us redundant".
As for why this person is remembering their morning minute-by-minute, did you get they are dying? It's a final minute kind of thing, an Owl Creek moment. I wonder if you undertood the whole story happens within this minute, the main character telling us how it all came to this.