Wayland desktop for Linux with skeuomorphic design

265 pointsposted 4 hours ago
by FinalDestiny

110 Comments

elxr

a few seconds ago

Love skeuomorphism. This just gave me a reminder to build a paper-like calendar app now, with pencil markings showing events.

I definitely don't want a skeuomorphic desktop, but little web-apps, text editors, chat apps? I say we need a lot more of this type of design there, especially with how good modern CSS is at this kind of thing.

tenacious_tuna

31 minutes ago

This is a really enjoyable take, pushing the feeling of what one does on a computer towards actually being at a desk and having to reach for various functions. I feel like that would enable spatial memory to do some cool things.

I miss the 90s chunkiness of switches, buttons, hardware: being able to hear the computer "think" (HDD seeks), the hum of a CRT. Modern machinery feels so insubstantial, emphasizing clean glass and tidy machined chassis. (chassies?)

I have this persistent daydream about a computer setup that feels like the Nostromo flight deck from Alien. I almost want to feel like I'm sitting _inside_ a computer when I'm at my desk, surrounded by powerful feeling electronics with substantial switches and such. Of course there's plenty of inconvenience there too, but something about it appeals to me.

bmurphy1976

2 hours ago

I want more stuff like this. The era 20 years ago (e.g. Enlightenment) was way more fun than the bland monotonic design we have these days. If you like bland modern design, great, that should be an option as well, but we should still have good variety.

Sohcahtoa82

2 hours ago

> If you like bland modern design, great,

I don't know why anybody would. It takes all the lessons we learned about UX from user testing in the late 90s/early 00s and throws it all away to produce something that looks "clean" and "sleek", at the cost of being useful. Discoverability? Who needs it?

EDIT: Though I do enjoy skeuomorphism, I do think the TFA goes a bit too far.

Zigurd

2 hours ago

Debatable. IIRC Bell labs conducted a study of whether Unix command names should be changed to something more meaningful than cat, sed, grep etc.

They found that words that convey some meaning related to what the command does had little or no effect on the user remembering what the command does. I strongly suspect skeuomorphism similarly has no claim on functional advantage.

Discoverability is good, but it's probably got a little to do with the icon.

lelanthran

2 hours ago

> I strongly suspect skeuomorphism similarly has no claim on functional advantage.

I think it does, but for new users only. I hate playing the "is-this-a-button" on modern designs, not knowing what is clickable and what is not. Other games I hate:

- Lets find the scrollbar

- Guess which window has focus

- (Windows-only) Try to predict the application to get focus on alt-tab, then alt-tab again.

- How do I find the file that just downloaded?

tavavex

41 minutes ago

A lot of these don't need skeuomorphism to be solved. It just needs clearer designs. Always showing vital elements like the scrollbar isn't a skeuomorphic choice, it's always a good idea, they only started hiding them because it looked 'cleaner' to some UI designer. The same with using color to show window focus, separate distinct elements or foreground from background. Nowadays everything is just white, but this is just a product of visual design trends, not (anti)skeuomorphism.

mcv

an hour ago

Absolutely. I keep falling into these traps. I just got a Mac, and it's terrible at these. It's notorious for hiding the scrollbar, but why would they make it hard to find the thing I just downloaded? Or a screenshot I just took? I can open it, but that doesn't take me to the file location so I can actually do something with it. Although Steam is by far the worst at that.

It's almost as if we didn't learn anything about UX in the past 30 years.

santoshalper

an hour ago

Yeah, those are all legit gripes about modern operating system UX, but none of them are automatically fixed with skeuomorphism, and none of them couldn't be fixed with clearer design regardless of approach.

Sohcahtoa82

2 minutes ago

> none of them are automatically fixed with skeuomorphism

True.

But they absolutely need to stop hiding functionality in order to present a "clean" interface.

Sure, I've seen some cluttered interfaces. I recently launched LibreOffice Calc and damn there were a lot of buttons on that toolbar (I may be using an insanely old version).

But like...disappearing scrollbars makes zero sense and should never have been implemented on any interface.

WesolyKubeczek

an hour ago

- Should there even be a scrollbar?

Many apps present content in such a way that makes it impossible to tell if there is anything more on the screen until you actually try to scroll. The home screen of the app is so clean and so fitted that there is nothing poking out from the bottom.

red_admiral

an hour ago

> Guess which window has focus

Used to be a solved problem before some ** messed it up. I hate that game too.

thesuitonym

an hour ago

Skeuomorphism isn't the only thing we've lost, and really it's the least important. We're talking smaller ideas, like widgets that aren't just black text on a white background (or if you like dark mode, white text on a grey background), visible scrollbars, menus.

AlienRobot

an hour ago

That has nothing to do with discoverability. Discoverability isn't about "guessing" it's about being able to see it.

Discoverability in CLI is --help. But you can't discover you have to use --help. So CLI is always fundamentally worse than GUI.

robotresearcher

24 minutes ago

You also have to just know what program to invoke with the —help arg.

Good luck guessing ‘grep’ from first principles.

roughly

2 hours ago

Re: too far - it’s interesting, because there’s two reasons skeumorphism “works” - one is because it provides visual cues for how a virtual object will behave when acted upon, which lets our brain build a quick intuitive understanding of how to interact with a foreign object that draws on all our experience outside the computer, and two is because the visual mimicry of the physical object gives our brains immediate cues to understand what it’s seeing and build that interaction model.

This one absolutely over indexes on that second principle, to a borderline cartoonish degree, but I expect the reason it’s resonating so hard is exactly what you’re indicating, that in the industry’s desire to be able to move on from the tether to the shapes of physical objects, they discarded that first principle entirely, instead of figuring out how to maintain the visual cues to form and operation in a new language.

(Here’s where I throw away all that credibility I just got from the prior two paragraphs: I actually think Liquid Glass is getting closer to a “skeumorphism without skeumorphism” than anything else I’ve seen out there.)

prmph

34 minutes ago

Modern design is not synonymous to dis-empowering design.

FWIW I love modern design, and I have all these too clever skeuomorphs. Modern design is honest to the digital medium. I find its beauty lies, not in the quirky ways it tries to mimic real textures and objects, but by how it provides usable controls and information by applying basic design elements like spacing, alignment, color, typography, discovery, layered info density, etc. well.

None of these requires skeuomorphs. It is like the difference between thinking a website is visually impressive and stunning because it uses a nice background image. That would not impress me. What would impress me are stuff like: does it have an effective information architecture, as reflected in it main menu and general link structure? Does it use a tasteful and usable color scheme? Does it have an interesting and still usable visual grouping? Etc.

roarcher

19 minutes ago

Do all those toggle switches and dials and sliders actually help discovery for people who grew up with iPads? Maybe their function is only obvious to us dinosaurs.

creaturemachine

19 minutes ago

Way too far. I don't want my desktop to look like a puzzle straight out of Myst, or a reinvention of Bob.

rerdavies

15 minutes ago

In fairness, this is Myst not Bob.

pkulak

2 hours ago

> I don't know why anybody would.

Well, there's really two things going on here: consumer vs professional. Does an electrician need to "discover" the modes on her multimeter? Naw. Do I need to discover where the wiper controls are on the car I just rented? Absolutely! But I'm not a huge fan of UI fluff that helps me discover things on my work machine.

Uncle_Brumpus

40 minutes ago

Your rental car comment reminds me of the time I looked like an idiot trying to open the fuel door on a rented Kia K5 for almost 20 minutes. I don't have a smartphone and didn't have my laptop so had no way to look anything up. Ended up finding this video on the gas station employee's phone (she came out to see if everything was okay. It was not okay.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e7lZmbjtNo

If you have to release a tutorial video to open your fuel filler door, and that video includes the one easy piece of user interface to do the thing getting thanos-snapped out of existence, I think you did something wrong.

The cause of my problem was I opened the driver's door before turning off the car. The rental didn't have push-to-start like my personal vehicle, and I don't have "turn and remove key" on the mind when exiting a vehicle. Even locking and unlocking the door didn't unlock the fuel door, I had to turn the car back on, lock the doors, turn the car off, then unlock the doors. Why is opening the fuel door so complicated? There doesn't seem to be any way to do it mechanically, so good luck when the solenoid dies.

Loquebantur

an hour ago

The idea of "one size fits all" was never true.

Weirdly, there is some kind of power play happening with OS UI: "MBA finally in position of influence wants to force their taste on everybody" appears to be a thing.

VCFundedGenYer

an hour ago

> Discoverability? Who needs it?

Most "flat" designed modern apps fail miserably at discovery. Most hide things in hamburger menus or require weird random swipes in odd directions with zero visual indicators.

pkulak

2 hours ago

As someone who runs a super-boring, stock tiler with zero decoration or bling; couldn't agree more. It's this kind of thing that gets new users interested in Linux. _I_ started using Linux because I saw some video of wobbly windows, and desktops on a giant rotating cube.

ibizaman

25 minutes ago

Me too! I was drawn to trying out Ubuntu from seeing all the cool Compiz effects.

creaturemachine

23 minutes ago

That was Compiz iirc. I remember turning it on for a laugh.

theraido

2 hours ago

It's probably not the same one, but I suddenly had Project Looking Glass flashbacks

anonzzzies

2 hours ago

I look back at my Enlightenment desktop with joy. I guess many people hated all the tinkering with drivers & settings etc, but I loved it. Spending a few weekends getting a computer running with Linux and Enlightenment exactly like I wanted it to and then actually using that as my main driver for years are very nice memories.

lelanthran

2 hours ago

> Spending a few weekends getting a computer running with Linux and Enlightenment exactly like I wanted it to and then actually using that as my main driver for years are very nice memories.

Years? The novelty wore off in a week with Enlightenment's constant crashing :-(

Anyway, I look forward to more Window Managers (Hell, even a whole DE) that put the fun and whimsy back into computing.

seba_dos1

an hour ago

I used to use e17 on my daily driver phone. Illume was a nice UI, but you (or your distro) did have to find a good revision to not have it crash indeed :)

Gualdrapo

an hour ago

Call me insane but I still think xfce and Enlightenment should do a fusion become one project. Get rid of the GNOME shenanigans on GTK and rewrite all xfce apps and stuff in the e libraries.

Beijinger

2 hours ago

What do you mean 20 years ago? I still use enlightenment today (Moksha Desktop)

WD-42

2 hours ago

If the 23oz Of Glass or Orange Juice themes are usable I’ll switch right now

0xbadcafebee

2 hours ago

I would like a Linux desktop that doesn't suck first, then they can make it pretty. Every Linux desktop I've used in the past decade is either so minimal it's barely usable, or so feature-filled it takes up gigs of ram, or in the middle with broken clunky features (where I am now with LXQt). And the worst thing is, it's all the same goddamn thing as what we had 20 years ago, but somehow keeps getting rewritten to be slower and suckier.

TFNA

an hour ago

I installed Debian with KDE on a couple of non-techy relatives' mid-range laptops around Covid, and in spite of KDE being notorious for its abundance of features, neither of those relatives have ever complained about slowness or lag. That era seems far in the past now.

tavavex

an hour ago

I'm typically not a big proponent of skeuomorphism, but it's nice to have actual variety of experimental options, a bit like the crazy things people did with UIs back in the old days.

uolmir

3 hours ago

This is very funny. But I think it would make me feel like I was working inside of Papers Please or some similar game.

ok123456

an hour ago

Most people are to one degree or another.

chrisguilbeau

22 minutes ago

I always think about video game UI's when I read the skeuomorphic design arugments. I suspect video games use them, at the very least, because they are delightful and fun; which, in my opinion, is a good reason to do something anywhere.

I will say that a long time ago I installed enlightenment and after about 10 minutes the burning windows felt like they were getting in the way, so I guess, like everything, there should be balance.

lpghatguy

2 hours ago

The README being so full of AI prose is super grating.

Retr0id

2 hours ago

> the kind iOS 6 had

> The room is ray-traced

imho, part of the charm of iOS6 was that everything was baked into native-resolution textures.

ramijames

2 hours ago

I feel like that was simply a limitation of the hardware at the time. Given modern hardware, I'm willing to bet that people of the 2000s would have made wild stuff.

vollbrecht

an hour ago

Totally. Using Windows Vista Ultimate just for using Windows DreamScene ( e.g playing a video as a desktop background). Totally dumb, totally destroyed performance, totally cool :D

treetalker

2 hours ago

> DEsk is Desktop Environment and desk in one word

They dropped the ball:

DESk would have been Desktop Environment, desk, and Skeumorphic in one word.

reedlaw

an hour ago

Or go full acronym with Kit for the K as in "Developer Kit".

ragazzina

2 hours ago

> Windows are sheets of paper on a walnut desk.

The calculator is a sheet of paper..

bovermyer

3 hours ago

I love this. Hopefully we start to see more experiments like this.

cr125rider

2 hours ago

I like when designers are creative.

kerm1t_

12 minutes ago

nice! would be cool to customize to different era's of office life ... or even a creative version, e.g. Picasso's desktop

brink

3 hours ago

This is lovely. I really hope society returns to chasing beauty again. We need it.

2OEH8eoCRo0

2 hours ago

But will this make a billion dollars and let me force my bizarre beliefs on the world?

brink

an hour ago

Agreed. Greed is consuming everything before our eyes.

iamnothere

3 hours ago

This is neat, it’s not for me (I prefer extreme minimalism) but I could see how some would prefer it. I like how we’re getting more desktop options now thanks to wlroots.

TomJansen

13 minutes ago

Fun, makes me think of Bumptop :)

nntwozz

3 hours ago

Flashback to TabWorks.

Compaq Presario 486 1994, I was 10.

And yes, played Myst on it.

Tempus fugit…

xbar

2 hours ago

Did it have that tiny rollerball on the side?

We bought a bunch of TabWorks-based Compaqs back then for a medical office where I was doing IT work. I thought it was slick at the time.

itomato

an hour ago

I'd be into something as useful as Quartz Composer was for Desktop Widgets, but not a full skeuomorphic desktop.

Indigo Magic or CDE is as close as I'd want to go with that concept.

2004 was a long time ago, and I suppose what is old can be new (again).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQPTtdzBig

nirav72

an hour ago

I thought we were done with the skeuomorphism craze back in the late 00s. (Thanks Apple). Is the trend coming back?

flowerlad

26 minutes ago

This project highlights why designers hate skeuomorphism. Skeuomorphism looks tacky unless done very very well. Skeuomorphic design under Steve Jobs looked very good. This doesn't come close.

RugnirViking

3 hours ago

the "paper windows" idea doesn't seem to have been done with as much soul as the rest of the ui. Just a turned up corner. I reckon something done there could really tie this together

alehlopeh

3 hours ago

A “dog-eared corner” in fact. The readme is painful to read if you have an aversion to Claude prose.

lelanthran

2 hours ago

I only skimmed the README, but I didn't notice any Claudisms.

I could read it comfortably, whereas usually I can't make it through even a paragraph from an LLM.

acheron

3 hours ago

Fantastic. Giving me memories of MS Bob. Put a talking animal assistant in the corner and you’ve got it. Oh, and you could connect the assistant to an LLM of course.

cogman10

2 hours ago

Exactly what it reminded me of. Although a lot more functional.

WorldMaker

6 minutes ago

But a lot less coherent personality. Bob had a somewhat coherent cartoon world aesthetic. This just looks like "TEMU Myst" to me.

PanicAdmin

3 hours ago

I see that this very bad idea is returning from the 90's.

austinthetaco

3 hours ago

I reckon a lot of the people clamoring for these things are gen z or younger first discovering the idea of customizable OS's and are now going through all the awful decisions that were made before. Pretty sure I've seen a version of this skeuomorphic desktop like 15 times at this point.

chihuahua

2 hours ago

The children yearn for Microsoft Bob - which took this idea a bit further:

"Microsoft Bob presented screens showing a house, with rooms that the user could visit containing familiar objects corresponding to computer applications, such as a desk with pen and paper and a checkbook. Clicking on the pen and paper would open the system's word processor."

al_borland

an hour ago

Some level of skeuomorphic design is quite nice, like what we saw from Apple during the Forstall era. It seemed to strike a good balance.

Something like Microsoft BOB takes the metaphor too far and gets weird.

I think this project leans on it a little too hard, but a balanced approach can make the systems quite charming and provide a nice juxtaposition to the very austere hardware we have these days.

ChrisMarshallNY

2 hours ago

Personally, I found skeuomorphic design to be something that I really enjoyed, for a couple of days, but rapidly got sick of.

That may have more to with the skills of the implementors, as opposed to the concept, as a whole.

I do find modern "flat" design to be less "fun," but I get a lot more done with it.

sixothree

2 hours ago

That might be the thing. In real life you don't use the same stationary for years. Your desk is a reflection of your mood and evolves almost daily. Maybe that's where these fail?

al_borland

an hour ago

This is where themes come in.

warkdarrior

an hour ago

Indeed, my mood most days is bland, monotonic, and flat, just like my desktop.

brink

3 hours ago

What's so bad about it?

exe34

2 hours ago

He doesn't like it.

ilaksh

2 hours ago

I think AR/XR glasses are going to start to become popular in the next couple of years and I think some mixed reality shells will have more physical/3d interfaces.

hliyan

an hour ago

This adds to a belief that I have that UI design undergoes cycles like fashion, just that we haven't yet seen a complete cycle.

V__

2 hours ago

I can imagine this being really helpful for beginners and kids. It's hard to grok what windows and tabs are etc. without any context.

hotelsacher

an hour ago

That control panel looks fantastic! Too bad I don't wayland. Last I checked, Mathematica doesn't like it.

mcv

an hour ago

This looks like peak skeuomorphism. I like it, but ray-tracing the desktop sounds like overkill.

lelanthran

2 hours ago

This is pretty cool! I'd use this, once out of beta.

(Bonus points for not throwing AI-tells at everyone in the README - much appreciated).

esperent

3 hours ago

I love this, at least from the screenshots. I'll test it out tomorrow. I hope this kind of design makes a comeback.

tamimio

28 minutes ago

Coupled with steam frame headset this might be great experience.

Arubis

2 hours ago

I can feel my shoulders unlocking looking at the screenshots.

shaolinspirit

2 hours ago

fascinating, I recently was also exploring various skeuomorphic design pattern in Flutter and now this!

Beijinger

2 hours ago

memory 4 GB (DEsk itself 200-450 MB)

This makes it interesting. I may try it out. Moksha uses 200 MB to 300 MB of RAM

xbar

2 hours ago

Love it. Maximize skeuomorphic design.

jacknews

2 hours ago

How come the 'documents' are floating above the wood surface creating such deep drop shadows?

kogasa240p

an hour ago

Very interesting concept but I doubt it's stable due to the amount of slopped code and I don't like that it requires a hodgepoge of libraries from different DEs.

mrsssnake

2 hours ago

Skeuomorphic design was a solution to teaching the customer how to use the digital product, but I wish we have more of its side effects like shadows, icons that pop and other things that are pleasant for the eye and depth.

I don't know if it's just because it was better or am I just tired of the current white (like #FFFFFF white) backgrounds with everything flat and not connected. I would like my browser tabs to be in the shape of a physical tab in notebooks.

pid0x17

an hour ago

It feels like UI design froze somewhere in the mid-2010s. There are some changes here and there, but it all looks similar and very bland.

I don't know if this is accurate, but I blame Windows 8 and, especially, Windows 10 for popularizing this extremely bland and boring design.

ortusdux

an hour ago

Please tell me it has coffee ring stains and spiral lined notebooks.

DonHopkins

2 hours ago

In Brett Victor's 2011 essay, "A Brief Rant on the Future of Interaction Design", he laid out the foundation for his critique of skeuomorphic design. He believes hands are our future.

https://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDes...

On the visual pretense: "Pictures Under Glass sacrifice all the tactile richness of working with our hands, offering instead a hokey visual facade."

On touchscreens mimicking real objects without haptics: "Pictures Under Glass is an interaction paradigm of permanent numbness. It's a Novocaine drip to the wrist. It denies our hands what they do best."

On why this design path is short-sighted: "To me, claiming that Pictures Under Glass is the future of interaction is like claiming that black-and-white is the future of photography. It's obviously a transitional technology. And the sooner we transition, the better."

ranger_danger

3 hours ago

Yes! Please bring back the soul we had with retro OS GUIs (and the speed)... it's time for a resurgence. Especially with new systems/RAM/GPUs/etc. not being a thing for quite a while for a lot of people now.

mrsssnake

2 hours ago

The thing I hate with vibed apps the most is zero seconds spend on how things around what is being build are already structured and what problems was already solved, just focusing on shiny result.

`sudo sh scripts/install_debian.sh`, a 583 lines long script, basically now a whole software just to handle the installation of this project on one distribution, seriously? If we vibecode already, just do the normal packaging.

KerrAvon

2 hours ago

okay, now use this for a month and report back

I don't hate skeuomorphic design but come on man