> people treat being overweight as a moral failure in and of itself

the thing is though, at least as far as our society is concerned: thats a fact not a missrepresentation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluttony

and yes, using tools like GLP-1 is a moral failing. a proper christian would just be more disciplined. and be a straight up better human from that too.

but hey, i'm an atheist, and struggled with my weight all my life to varying degrees. The way fat people generally undersell the issue that theyre fat and keep wanting to be victiums / not responsible for their own actions is extremely dystopian however. and its flabbergasting our societies have degraded so far to no longer even be able to tell that.

> others are doomed to be heavier regardless what they do on their own

While this is true in individual cases, it is obviously not by any means common. Unless the human species has had some extreme mutations in the last 100 years (and only in the West). Yet this is brought up in every thread about obesity, because believing yourself to lack agency is more convenient.

> when the only affect is appetite suppression

You don't know this.

> These things are useful for a few months

You don't know this.

> For anyone else (most people), it's much healthier to learn how to do difficult things.

You don't know this.

> Willpower is a muscle.

I know you mean this in a figurative sense, but what exactly is "willpower"? There has to be a physical (and physiological) mechanism for "willpower", no?

Do you believe that can be aberrant physiological conditions?

I do. I also believe over-eating is a manifestation of some type of "aberrant" physiology.

That's common sense reasoning, which is to say, not based on anything scientific.

GLP-1 is produced by the body to regulate and balance food consumption. People whose bodies produce less than the correct amount eat more because they feel a lot more hunger than people whose bodies are normal. Taking in GLP-1 drugs, if following medical advice, brings their level back to what it should have been all along, in which case most wouldn't have become obese at all.

I'm such a case. Clinical exames never showed up any clear problem associated with weight gain, so for my entire life my obesity was linked by everyone, doctors included, to lack of willpower.

I only discovered what my issue was when I took a genetic test and discovered that my DNA came with these lovely traits:

* I feel more intense hunger than the average people, so I need to eat more than they do to feel satiated. If I eat the same amount a normal person does, I leave the table literally still hungry.

* My body accumulates more fat than the average person, so even if I eat the same amount they do and keep constantly hungry, I accumulate some fat.

* Caloric-reduction diets don't work for me. So the years and years I tried and tried them had little effect, and were mostly wasted effort.

* Fat-reduction diets also don't work for me. Good thing I didn't lose time with those since everyone recommended me the useless caloric-reduction ones.

* The only diet that has some effect for me is the Mediterranean one, which I didn't know about and no one had ever recommended.

* Physical exercise has little effect for me, as I gain less muscle mass from it than the average person. So the years of walking and the many attempts at going to the gym were also mostly wasted effort.

* And physical exercise causes more pain for me than it does for the average person, so all the time I was doing those, I was suffering more than most people while getting worse results then they do from it.

If your genetics is normal on all those fronts, then sure, a bit of willpower fixes that. With that combo though, and fully not knowing you have any of that? Not a chance.

There are a few things here. Developing willpower is a thing. Having depression or other mental health issue is another. It is easy to dismiss it as lack of willpower, but it is a bit more complicated.

I also don't think you understand how living with kcal deficiency works on the long run. Have a look at the Minnesota starvation experiment. When in deficit for long the mind constantly goes to "what/when are we going to eat?" and it only gets worse from there. It becomes an obsession. It takes over everything. My understanding is that glp-1 reduces that.

It also helps for people who have too much extra weight, or incapable (waiting for hip replacement, or the elderly) of exercising.

I have been on diet and managed to go back to the target weight (lost around ~16% of bodyweight) but the food noise was real and constant. It is not a one off "I am not going to eat anymore" that was a decision to be made every minute until next meal came around. I do cycle 10-12 hour a week and the occasional footbal game but finding the deficit that is not causing the food noise is different for everyone.

Yeah, no. Willpower is more like a well that replenish with sleep, friends, family and a secure environment and that you use to do anything difficult. The harsher your life, the deeper you need to go to get water back.

I lost now 42 kg from my heaviest (5 kg left to reach my ideal weight of 73 kg), the first 20 i absolutely needed eat less and to fight the hunger pangs (which are more painfull than ankle sprain due to my fucking grehlin receptor being whack), some medical help was needed anyway (i fasted for 5 days under medical supervision to reset my leptin levels, and stayed in ketosis for 3 month prior to that to reset my insulin resistance). 20 kg loss over 18 months. I thought exercise would be enough for the last 20, but i took 5 year to loose 5, and only a change in diet finally helped me go under 80.

NGL, all that is very difficult if you have issues at home or in your life. My family might have individual flaws but as a unit we've been doing great since like 2006, and my income in 2019 when i started my weight loss was comfortable enough for me to have a great apartment, private medial help and a good overall social life.

If people need GLP-1 to get back in track, they should absolutely go for it. I do think we should help them, once they are close to their optimal weight, to sever from GLP1 though, i've heard about the "rebound", imho it is way easier on the mind to eat as much as you use to than forcefully reduce your portions (your leptin/grehlin level were unfucked by GLP1, so your old eating habits are now only psychological, not hormonal)

I'm a doxastic voluntarist, as in, we think ourselves to be less able to change our beliefs than we actually are. The idea that weight loss by means other than self-discipline seems, at least to me, quite easy to choose to not believe in.

I would give you the name but that wouldn't be ok. Other than that what else can I do? I've spent time writing about an encounter I can with someone I know for 20 years and you just called me a lier because the story sounds improbable to you.

Isn't the whole point to read about what others think or experienced to learn about things you personally hasn't?

malnutrition and starvation is technically a diet change.

That said, based on googling telogen effluvium seems to have lots of causes not related to malnutrition, even if insufficient protein is one of the causes.