Meta's Muse appears to use an OpenAI model labeled muse-special

143 pointsposted 3 days ago
by Aeroi

54 Comments

Aeroi

3 days ago

author here. I kept digging through the Muse filesystem after my first post hit the front page here this week.

Going through my logs I found a background agent that used a model called azure/muse-special while building my website. I found this interesting and dug a little deeper.

The transcript and daemon binary point to an OpenAI model running on Azure. Still unclear which one or why it was selected.

The runtime also ships with an Anthropic client and a catalogue listing Claude, GPT and Kimi models. I didn’t observe Claude being used in my own sessions, but this is my Part 2 of exploring the Muse file system.

original post: https://x.com/heypeterjames/status/2103545183400800746

pete at mouse dot dev

haolez

3 days ago

Nice work!

Are you sure this isn't just a custom model that is API-compatible with OpenAI?

vineyardmike

2 days ago

This feels like the far more likely option.

The Muse public APIs seem to be heavily inspired by OpenAI's, they even support the richer "responses" API. They have a similarly shaped compaction API, they have the same "encrypted" reasoning. Even the Muse harness seems heavily inspired by (open source) Codex. Considering Azure's historic involvement w/ OpenAI, it seems more plausible that Azure is used as spill-over capacity, and the same Azure infra used to encrypt GPT models encrypts Muse models.

My guess that the generally visible Anthropic/OpenAI details are leftovers from the whole meta "move fast" behavior. There are a few rough edges on the product where it leaks internal codenames (eg. signing in w/ WhatsApp required consenting to using "hatch" on one screen), so I'd believe that this was a leftover on the VM from the prototyping stage, before the Muse models were ready, or because the dev's got to benchmark against different models.

jychang

2 days ago

> The Muse public APIs seem to be heavily inspired by OpenAI's, they even support the richer "responses" API.

???

Every single provider basically copy openai's api endpoint

https://api.openai.com/v1/chat/completions

https://router.huggingface.co/v1/chat/completions

https://integrate.api.nvidia.com/v1/chat/completions

https://generativelanguage.googleapis.com/v1beta/openai/chat...

https://api.x.ai/v1/chat/completions

https://api.deepseek.com/chat/completions

https://openrouter.ai/api/v1/chat/completions

https://opencode.ai/zen/v1/chat/completions

https://api.cerebras.ai/v1/chat/completions

Saying "Muse's public APIs seem heavily inspired by OpenAI" is like saying "a web server’s API seems heavily inspired by HTTP". OpenAI’s API format has become an industry standard.

vineyardmike

a day ago

Thanks for the links to the “completions” APIs that are common. Not the “responses” API I’m talking about, however.

Aeroi

3 days ago

I'm not no. Someone from meta would have to chime in... but its very openai shaped and served differently from all the other models listed in the daemon, under a mysterious name.

a fine-tuned OpenAI model on Azure for the purpose of compaction or something could make sense I guess but that would still be OpenAI's weights with meta ontop, and they already have a compaction model served under azure/avocado-compaction-v1

embedding-shape

3 days ago

If it's using the same weird (and awful) "backend prompt encryption" pattern and mechanism that Codex also uses (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48905028), then I'd also say it points to OpenAI being involved. Hopefully that shit isn't becoming a more popular pattern, absolutely awful for troubleshooting stuff.

hobofan

2 days ago

Anthropic does the same thing with reasoning signatures. It has already become the standard pattern.

sellmesoap

a day ago

Oh this is like how Mozilla is in every http UA since forever?

junofan

3 days ago

I asked muse. It’s for codex-cli, and it routes through “OpenAI inference proxy”

binlog

2 days ago

Why host it on Azure though?

xmcp123

2 days ago

Microsoft owns 27% of OpenAI.

thinkling

2 days ago

I think they were asking, "If this is a model produced by Meta with an API designed to be compatible with OpenAI models, but it's not actually an OpenAI model, why is Meta hosting it on Azure?"

user

2 days ago

[deleted]

meredithbloom

2 days ago

Microsoft owns 100% of GitHub and that's hosted on AWS...

throw03172019

2 days ago

Haven’t they been transitioning to Azure?

alexgoodhart

2 days ago

What endpoint would Claude be calling?

Tiberium

3 days ago

I don't really see evidence that it's an "OpenAI" model, the title is IMO very misleading.

Aeroi

3 days ago

Meta already serves its own models on Azure under their real names. azure/avocado-compaction-v1 and azure/avocado-memory-flush-v1 are in the same catalog. Those sessions do not come back as gpt_responses_v1 items with rs_ ids and encrypted reasoning.

catchnear4321

3 days ago

router makes sense. fill a gap with someone else’s model wearing a mask, swap it out with your model not wearing a mask when (or if) you reach that.

definitely tracks with alexandr’s hand-wavey influencer turn.

6thbit

3 days ago

It'd be hilarious that meta chose to pay openai. If there was such a deal, would it come to light in any public/official filings?

binlog

2 days ago

Depends on the size of the deal. OpenAI would have to disclose it in their S-1 if it crossed the threshold of being material information for investors.

enjoyyourlife

2 days ago

Isn't S-1 just for IPO? Wouldn't it be in the 10-Q?

JumpCrisscross

2 days ago

OpenAI isn’t public. It doesn’t file forms 10-Q.

micromacrofoot

2 days ago

meta already pays openai and anthropic for employee use despite having their own models available

meric_

3 days ago

No reason for it to. Software companies use products from other software companeis all the time.

manav

3 days ago

Muse 1.3 spark occasionally spits out Chinese character responses to me like internal instructions. “Go fast” or “Get help”…

sroussey

3 days ago

I’ve had Claude opus do that too.

wincy

3 days ago

I had a totally benign chat with OpenAI and it titled it as “amateur porn” in Chinese characters, it was very alarmed when I pointed the conversation name out to it. It almost never misses these days, but when it does the failure modes are very strange.

dgellow

2 days ago

I remember getting a bunch of „Thanks for watching! Subscribe and smash that like button“ in the middle of chat sessions a few times (like, more than 3 times over the past 3y)

xmcp123

2 days ago

It kind of makes sense when you think about it. If the training data is YouTube transcripts, people often abruptly switch from content to asking for a subscription.

If AI is typeahead on crack, then this tracks.

fg137

2 days ago

If you ever look at what's in the Common Crawl the amount of Chinese porn crap is jarring.

ccgreg

2 days ago

It's as if Common Crawl is attempting to be a sample of the web.

tclancy

3 days ago

Got Russian from it once. As a child of the '80s I jumped right on it, but the explanation seemed believable.

Still sleeping with one eye open.

ChickeNES

2 days ago

A Hindi word in the middle of a normal reply for me (but once I translated the word it was right in context heh)

arshxyz

2 days ago

This used to happen a lot with GPT 5.4. It would start outputting entire sentences in Korean for no apparent reason.

tehjoker

2 days ago

People that know multiple languages sometimes code switch too funnily enough

user

2 days ago

[deleted]

GenerWork

3 days ago

I'm not sure I understand why they would route it to other models. It can't be that they don't have enough compute. Maybe worried that the answer from their own models would be bad? Doesn't really make sense, but I could be missing something.

fg137

2 days ago

> It can't be that they don't have enough compute.

How do you know?

Every cloud provider (AWS, Azure etc) is struggling with meeting LLM demand.

Source: first hand info

GenerWork

2 days ago

>How do you know?

Because there was an article written in Bloomberg about how they're looking to sell their extra compute [0]

[0] https://archive.is/4ODV4

Aeroi

3 days ago

i agree, and it's what made me spend time exploring today.

fair q. call_ ids and gAAAAA blobs arent damning but the rs_ reasoning ids embed a unix timestamp that matches the session to the second, then OpenAI's 819x marker. plus the summary is in OpenAI's summarizer voice.

its just a best guess.

user

3 days ago

[deleted]

sejje

2 days ago

I thought it was 1.3 spark. No?

sourcecodeplz

2 days ago

zuck wouldn't do this, he is too proud imho

binlog

2 days ago

Every engineer at Meta is using Claude (and in some cases Codex) to do their work. Willing to bet that Muse itself was ~100% written by Claude/Codex. Pride goes out of the window when business is involved.

alex1138

2 days ago

Pride, as in stealing literally everyone else's products from the time he entered Silicon Valley and before that?