yjftsjthsd-h
5 hours ago
From https://orib.dev/gefs.pdf -
> While snapshot consistency is useful to keep data consistent, disks often fail over time. In order to detect corruption, block pointers contain a hash of the data that they point at. If corrupted data is returned by the underlying storage medium, this is detected via block hashes. And if a programmer error causes the file system to write garbage to disk, this can often be caught early. The corruption is reported, and the damaged data may then be recovered from backups, RAID restoration, or some other means.
Okay! It's got CoW, snapshots, and data checksums. Therefore, it's good enough to compete with ZFS while being way smaller and permissively licensed. Now I just want it ported to Linux and the other BSDs:)
throw0101a
2 hours ago
> It's got CoW, snapshots, and data checksums. Therefore, it's good enough to compete with ZFS while being way smaller and permissively licensed.
Does it have a built-in RAID layer? Because if it doesn't, then it can't compete with ZFS in many use cases. For example, what does "data may then be recovered from […] RAID restoration" mean?
With ZFS, if you have a (e.g.) mirrored/RAID-1 configuration, and you fetch some data from one drive and the checksum is wrong, ZFS can check the other drive, and if that checksum is good it can (a) pass the good data up, and (b) use the good data to fix the bad data. Most mirroring systems can't do that both-drives checking: ZFS is self-healing.
(This isn't to say that GEFS won't be useful in many other situations.)
atmosx
4 hours ago
I don't think it will compete with ZFS or BTRFS (e.g. I don't think ppl will use GEFS over ZFS or BTRFS for a storage server), but it's a modern, much needed FFS replacement.
yjftsjthsd-h
3 hours ago
Who said anything about storage servers? I'm using zfs on laptops and desktops right now because I want data checksums and a filesystem that doesn't have a history of breaking horribly (I dropped btrfs after the second time it hosed my rootfs). Given the license issue with zfs - and in particular, the technical fallout like needing dkms - I'd be very pleased to replace it.
sippingabonedry
3 hours ago
> I dropped btrfs after the second time it hosed my rootfs
btrfs fans use the "you're using it wrong" excuse a lot.
I recall a failure mode that activated when you fill the FS to 100% and their response was "you should never fill a filesystem to capacity"
thetallguyyy
34 minutes ago
It's really a shame, though. btrfs is permanently unfinished, and zfs has the wrong license. End result is people stick with ext4 or xfs most of the time anyway.
jeffrallen
3 hours ago
Otoh, good luck bringing a CoW filesystem back from 100%. Delete a file? Sure, let me just make a copy of all the metadata that was pointing at it using... the zero blocks I have left.
Tradeoffs are a bitch, bitch.
yjftsjthsd-h
2 hours ago
Which is why ZFS reserves "slop space" to make sure that doesn't happen, instead of defaulting to making it easy for users to corner themselves like that.
whalesalad
3 hours ago
I have been hearing noise recently that btrfs is risky and unstable but (knocks on wood) i've been running it for years now with zero issues. What am I missing?
gucci-on-fleek
2 hours ago
btrfs is almost 20 years old now, so lots of people only used it back when it was newer and far buggier.
In my experience, btrfs is actually more reliable than other filesystems due to its checksumming abilities, but when it does fail, it's much harder to fix than with other filesystems (which will often try to continue on even when stuff is broken).
crabbone
2 hours ago
Failures in storage software are very rare. Which makes it very hard to test... (you need to run it a lot, for a very long time if you hope to find errors by chance).
Also, some failure modes are worse than others. The failures known as DI (data integrity) are the worst. Even though they aren't expected to happen to everyone at a certain frequency (because, again, mature storage software is comparatively very reliable), even a single DI error that happened to any user sets up a major alarm.
In the storage industry, the running joke is that after first DI in your product you lose funding, after the second DI you loose the product.
And it did happen to Btrfs quite a bit... I've seen it with my own eyes when a system didn't come back after power failure. (But I'm in the business of testing software storage products, so, it's less surprising that it happened to me).
So... it's perfectly plausible that you have never seen Btrfs fail, and it's been more error prone than eg. EXT4. The error rate is low enough so that if you don't actively try to cause the error you will never experience one. But, over a large group of diverse use patterns, the rate is still worse than expected.
atmosx
3 hours ago
> Who said anything about storage servers?
I did.
> I'm using zfs [...]
ZFS is primarily used on single-storage appliances.
gigatexal
27 minutes ago
It’ll replace brtfs if it gets ported. Almost anything is better than that pile of garbage.
mmooss
3 hours ago
I've always wondered about similar designs: Doesn't calculating a hash of every block, on every read and every write, create lots of overhead? Why isn't that a problem?
Some systems have dedicated crypto co-processors for confidentiality (encryption) - e.g., I think drives with FDE, and I think Apple Silicon SoCs might have them. Can those be repurposed for hash calculation? What about systems that lack them?
chasil
3 hours ago
Both ZFS and modern btrfs support a large set of checksums.
Both implement sha256, which does impose a heavy speed penalty.
ZFS allows you to adjust the checksum on the fly, using something faster (Fletcher) if desired.
In btrfs, a global checksum is set at filesystem creation; xxhash is the best modern option.
There is a website: https://xxhash.com
Deduplication adds concerns for a strong hash free of collisions.
ThePowerOfFuet
2 hours ago
Fletcher has been the default for quite some time.
yjftsjthsd-h
3 hours ago
Yes, it adds some overhead, but it's fine IME. Granted, it helps that compression can significantly speed up performance. (I was very confused the first time I saw ZFS reading data faster than its drives were physically capable of, because it turned out the CPU could decompress faster than the drives could read)
crabbone
2 hours ago
Programs like filesystems typically have their own schedulers that aggregate writes, it would be an extreme performance hit if they wrote each checksum individually, as a separate I/O operation. They are certainly bundled with some other data that needs to be written.
And if you are concerned about the compute rather than storage, then writing to a block device is still slow enough so that computing a checksum isn't important performance-wise.