We Are Still Living in the Broken World Sept. 11 Created

23 pointsposted 5 hours ago
by wslh
(bloomberg.com)

27 Comments

segmondy

3 hours ago

Osama Bin Laden won. Before most people realized what the Patriot Act really was, I downloaded the paper and read it in it's entirety. I did a report on it. How I wish we only had what it was suggesting. The world is much worse off since then, My teacher did say some of my argument was slippery slope and would never happen. Ha!

nharziro

an hour ago

lol, me too. I still have the paper i wrote from 20+ years ago on this subject.

wslh

2 hours ago

> Osama Bin Laden won.

While I understand that the assertion "Osama bin Laden won" can trigger a lot of arguments, if we narrow the claim to: 9/11 => profound and lasting changes to the entire world, then I think it's essentially correct.

cactacea

3 hours ago

> The Supreme Court is the only institution in our system capable of standing up for the rule of law, fundamental rights, and the separation of powers. Just because it is doing a bad job does not mean we should weaken its powers further.

Dred Scott. Plessy. Bush v Gore. Citizens United. The court has worked against our values just as frequently as it has upheld them throughout the history of this country. Fundamental reform is required if we are to avoid these sort of nonsense decisions in the future.

upupupandaway

an hour ago

> Fundamental reform is required if we are to avoid these sort of nonsense decisions in the future.

"Fundamental reform is required if we are to avoid decisions that I disagree with in the future."

cactacea

7 minutes ago

So I am to understand that you agree with the Dred Scott and Plessy decisions? Bold strategy you're taking there.

rafterydj

29 minutes ago

Why is it that the derisive "oh you just disagree" statement usually speaks to a missing "...and therefore aren't serious"?

What are you actually saying constructively here, if anything at all? I, for one, happen to agree that fundamental reform is clearly necessary. What that looks like exactly is where I'm sure the problems lie.

orionblastar

5 hours ago

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11; the Afghanistan war gave control back to the Taliban. SEAL Team 6 got Bin Laden, but what about the other terrorists like him out there?

JojoFatsani

3 hours ago

If there was no 9/11, there would be no carte blanche from congress to Bush to send the military off on whatever crusade.

rchaud

43 minutes ago

Well before 9/11, US troops were intervening in Somalia, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Iraq, Haiti, Panama, Libya, Lebanon and Grenada.

jandrese

3 hours ago

I do wonder if George W. would have figured out some reason to topple Iraq. He had a grudge against the Saddam regime from before he was elected. That war felt inevitable once the Supreme Court got involved in the election.

I also wonder how history would have played out if we had President Gore.

rchaud

35 minutes ago

The invasion of Iraq was the brainchild of hawks like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Feith.

Bush was a frat boy and hollow suit who was completely unprepared for an event like 9/11 and delegated decision making to his cabinet.

Bush has pretty much said, gaffe or not, that the invasion was illegal.

https://abcnews.com/Politics/bush-condemns-unjustified-bruta...

dh2022

2 hours ago

If we had President Gore we would have done a lot more and a lot earlier re: climate change. Probably the biggest missed opportunity in our lifetime.

onlypassingthru

2 hours ago

The grudge was for trying to assassinate his father. IIRC, one of the soldiers attending Saddam's hanging at Camp Justice got a call on his cell phone moments before the execution and gave the phone to Saddam. Who do you think was on the line?

dh2022

2 hours ago

Would you mind sharing some sources re: Saddam answering a call moments before being hanged? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence…

onlypassingthru

32 minutes ago

There's at least one cell phone video from the execution.[0] This video was offensive to the US administration for many reasons, so any immediate reporting of it and other unsavory behavior at the hanging was quickly squashed in the US media. But again, IIRC from 20 years ago, the videographer wasn't the only one using a cell phone at the event.

[0]https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/01/world/middleeast/01sunnis...

krapp

an hour ago

Invading Iraq was always part of the neocon agenda. 9/11 provided a useful pretext, but it was always going to happen.

triceratops

3 hours ago

> the Afghanistan war gave control back to the Taliban

I'm very confused. Who was in control before?

jandrese

2 hours ago

The provisional government that was hopelessly corrupt and incompetent, although it is arguable that they were ever in charge in any practical sense. That government was a good example of how not to do nation building.

triceratops

2 hours ago

Right but that government got put in charge after the US-led invasion and war. Before the war the Taliban was already in power.

jameshilliard

3 hours ago

> the Afghanistan war gave control back to the Taliban

At least the Taliban tends to be relatively isolationist.

> what about the other terrorists like him out there?

A lot of them are funded by Iran.

alphawhisky

4 hours ago

The other terrorists like him out there use US tax money to blow up Palestinians.