Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 7.2

252 pointsposted 10 hours ago
by pizzaiolo
(asahilinux.org)

79 Comments

JLO64

8 hours ago

> Thanks to the combined efforts of mildsunrise and chaos_princess, we discovered that ACE3 has pretty much the same register set as CD3217, only wrapped in a SPMI interface instead of addressed over I2C. Both the SPMI interface and ACE3 itself are now working in Asahi Linux, bringing USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt support to all M3 series devices.

When I got my M3 Pro MBP, I got it with the intention of eventually installing Linux on it. In hindsight I seriously underestimated the amount of effort needed for even partial Linux compatibility, which makes me all the more grateful for the work Asahi contributors have put in! I'll still be keeping macOS installed for iOS dev work(which I plan on doing soonish), but other than that all I really need is a web browser and Ghostty with good battery life.

dgunay

5 hours ago

I have immense respect for the incredible work that the Asahi team does, but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency I wonder whether anyone will really _have_ to run Linux on M series laptops. There was a clear case for it back when Apple silicon absolutely dominated anything else you could buy but with Panther Lake I'm not so sure that Apple's lead will continue to be big enough to justify needing to wait several years for full Linux hardware compatibility to be reverse engineered.

raybb

an hour ago

That's fair but also think about the ewaste.

I'm still hoping one of these mega AI LLMs will figure out how to install Linux on the many old iPads that become nearly useless after Apple stops updating them and you can't install new apps.

ZiiS

40 minutes ago

Please send all "ewaste" Apple silicon macbooks to me.

euio757

5 hours ago

But, power efficiency isn't the primary reason I'd like Apple hardware with linux software.

Display quality, trackpad quality, overall form factor, and very high RAM space in a laptop would be the primary reasons I'd go with Asahi Linux.

rowanG077

2 hours ago

This is exactly why I run asahi. There really is not a laptop that comes close to the hardware quality of an apple laptop. I have even sacrificed x86 at the altar which is a much bigger step than battery life imo.

benoau

5 hours ago

It depends on how long Apple want to support the devices, if the support matches the longevity of the devices maybe nobody really needs Asahi. I believe all Intel Macs have received their final macOS version now so it is almost time for Apple to make that decision for the M1 generation. I think an M1 Pro, Max or Ultra (or even an M1 with 16GB of RAM) still has many good years left.

selfhoster1312

an hour ago

OS LTS support barely matters when planned obsolescence is baked in at the hardware level. Wearing parts (eg. SSD) are soldered on newer macs and there's intensive efforts to make sure even if you have the tools you can't repair it.

Parts aren't available but if you get your hands on there's cryptographic parts pairing so it more or less can't be replaced: https://rossmanngroup.com/services/ssd-data-recovery/macbook...

Overall, i wouldn't count on "many good years left".

kalleboo

41 minutes ago

My MacBook Pro M1 is 5 years old now and the SSD wear level is at 4%. SSD wear is not a problem for normal users.

Meanwhile Apple's standard OS support period is 7 years, that's a much more imminent limit.

Not saying that I support non-user-replaceable SSDs, but if your goal is reducing e-waste, there are more impactful changes to make.

selfhoster1312

19 minutes ago

Thanks, that's a fair data point. Although i'm sure it depends on actual user workloads.

I'm not saying that I support closed-source firmware, locked bootloaders, or even that replacing SSDs is the one true path to sustainability.

I believe it's a whole field and we shouldn't tolerate compromises on any level. It should be 100% illegal in any civilized country to sell the kind of lame hardware we have today. It should be 100% repairable, 100% open bootloader & free firmware, 100% public tech docs/datasheets. Original manufacturer OS support is not insignificant, but i believe it's only significant because we have so little control/understanding of the hardware/software stack.

maccard

24 minutes ago

What Laptop would you purchase that gives hardware equivalent to a MacBook Pro?

gehsty

4 hours ago

Does anyone have to run Linux on an M series? I’m fairly confident it’s one of the most complex ways of running Linux…

soganess

3 hours ago

Yeah, but there was a time when running Linux on a laptop was one of the most complex ways of running Linux. Now I just expect everything to work, especially if I buy from Lenovo, Dell, or HP.

There was a time when Wi-Fi, or Wayland, or XComposite, or Linux gaming, or just accelerated graphics at all or, or, or... People get excited, they work on it, other people get excited and mess about, and eventually it just works.

I would love to one day pick up a decommissioned M1 Ultra and use my OS of choice on it, and I'm grateful for the people who are doing the hard thing now.

oblio

4 hours ago

> wait several years for full Linux hardware compatibility

I'm not convinced it's only "several years".

Asahi was launched in January 2021. So 5 and a half years ago. Asahi, as far as I can tell, supports most of M1 and M2 features, so generations launched in November 2020 (6 years ago) and June 2022 (4 years ago).

I would be very surprised if a decade from now the story won't still be the same thing: 90% of features for systems half a decade old with software package gaps in important areas and everything slightly less optimized than MacOS.

Asahi is doing incredible work but it's still 5 people in a garage vs the huge corporation.

regexorcist

2 hours ago

> 90% of features for systems half a decade old

This can be a good tradeoff. An M1 Ultra still runs circles around 90% of consumer hardware sold today, and with Linux it has easily another 10+ years. Now support for M3 is coming.

> Asahi is doing incredible work but it's still 5 people in a garage vs the huge corporation.

Not sure why the "vs" scenario, this is a project that makes no promises. And I think they do have some support from Fedora / Red Hat fwiw.

selfhoster1312

an hour ago

> This can be a good tradeoff.

That's a good tradeoff for durable hardware with available spare parts. That's not a good tradeoff for hardware that was designed so it cannot be repaired, such as newer Macs.

dmitrygr

4 hours ago

> but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency

Have they? What AMD or Intel laptop with Linux on it can hold a candle to and M4 air or an M4max pro? Genuinely curious, cause I found none...

Mashimo

2 hours ago

Framework 13 pro with new Intel chips claims to run 20h of 4k Netflix stream, or 17h of light web browsing @250 nits.

That said these numbers are with windows.

Lio

2 hours ago

So the hardware is capable but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet?

Fingers crossed for them then. I love the idea of a Framework laptop but I’m only interested in Linux performance.

Mashimo

an hour ago

> but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet?

I just went by what Framework said on release a few weeks or month back. Maybe you can find a more up to date Linux test somewhere.

And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life.

jaimex2

3 hours ago

No idea but my Framework 12 goes for days without charging. I really haven't seen any real world need for M chips.

Granted Im not compiling large projects on a train all day but who is.

finaard

an hour ago

The main power advantage of the apple chips is when the system is mostly idle - under mid to high load power to watt has been comparable for a few years already (at least AMD and Apple, intel was way behind - but I guess they caught up recently). The main reason behind my M3 MBP back then wasn't so much power efficiency - but that I can get it with 96GB of RAM.

It's nice that I can go a full office day without charging - the previous x86 notebook couldn't, but a decent one from the M3 generation probably could as well. But also if I put proper load an that thing the Macbook battery is done in less than 2 hours.

zakisaad

2 hours ago

raises hand, but point taken when painting with broad strokes

porridgeraisin

an hour ago

> Framework 12 ... days without charging

I don't see how? it is a 50Wh battery. Even at 6W that is about 8h of usage? On what OS + workload on x86 are you seeing just 6W usage? Or is it that each day your usage is only 2 hours?

delamon

19 minutes ago

My amd thinkpad idles at 3w, watching youtube is about 4.5-5w.

oblio

4 hours ago

AMD Strix Halo?

dmitrygr

3 hours ago

"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks"

that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable

darkwater

an hour ago

I have a M1 Pro from work and it surely won't last that while working. Throw some video calls at it and working outside (so, screen at the brightest level) and at the end of the work day I have to plug it in

prmoustache

an hour ago

Who works 27h straight far away from a power or usb outlet?

pmontra

an hour ago

Probably nobody and I remember when a phone battery lasted one week: nevertheless sometimes we forgot to charge and we run out of battery. So a long lasting battery is good, too long lasting is a waste, which maybe it's your point.

However nowadays it could mean running some agents all day long (remote models) and plug in to power only at the end of the day.

gigatexal

3 hours ago

Even if amd or intel caught up the Apple hardware is just built better and is far higher quality.

monegator

an hour ago

i snatched a lenovo yoga slim aura with a core 5 226 for 650 euro. Its build quality is on par if not better than the colleague's macbook, it's pretty good for working, runs fedora natively, battery last at least 12 hours unless i'm playing games.

fooker

18 minutes ago

The build quality is not even close.

And macbooks are reaching 18-20 hours usage on battery nowadays, I have stopped carrying the power adapter most of the time.

Of course it’s significantly more expensive, but you do get what you pay for.

stiray

an hour ago

I hope they will support M4 soon, I cant stand macos and its desire to be different than everything else by custom keyboard shortcuts etc.

After 2 years of usage, I still have issues with basic actions like copy paste.

edit: omg, writing this post, i checked if there is some way to use linux shortcuts and there is (Kanesh/KMonad or Karabiner-Elements). Maybe my suffering will finally stop.

strbean

an hour ago

Counterpoint: OSX has the only sane copy paste shortcuts. The linux standard of "sometimes ctrl-c/v, sometimes shift-ctrl-c/v, and if you mess up you might kill your task" is preposterous.

hiire

an hour ago

The command key really has to be my favorite thing about OSX, it lets you do system things without intercepting whatever is going on in the terminal. It also leaves the ctrl key with barely any use, so you can just customize its behavior (for example, I have ctrl+opt+some letter keys assigned to different desktops/spaces, that works great for me)

owaislone

6 hours ago

This project has been so impressive and exciting. I hope power management is a serious concern once they nail all the reverse engineering and functionality. Battery life would be a huge differentiator for the day to day macbook usage and traditionally Linux has been terrible at that due to lack of proprietary & highly tuned drivers

paulryanrogers

5 hours ago

How likely is such tuning to happen within the practical lifetime of these devices? It's already been years and Linux isn't even feature complete on newer models.

Apple's indifference to OSS does not give me much hope.

superb_dev

5 hours ago

Given the enormous lifetime of these devices, I’d say chances are pretty good! The only thing that’s going to make an M series Mac obsolete is when Apple stops releasing updates. If you can run Linux on it, that thing is going to last forever.

LoganDark

5 hours ago

I would assume that once you have fully functional support for entire historical SoCs, the effort stops being "get most things working on most chips" and starts becoming "adapt already-working things to the newest chips". Yes, it's been years, but there's still so much hardware that Asahi doesn't have good support for yet, and that's dividing the efforts to support the newest chips. I'm sure that once all the existing chips are well-supported, new chips will be fairly quick to bring up.

ksec

3 hours ago

>The ARM specification mandates that cores in WFI loops should preserve all state. This is not the default mode on Apple Silicon.

I sometimes do wonder at what point do ARM find and test these stuff and ask Apple to follow. Obviously this is not the first time we see such thing happened.

Eufrat

3 hours ago

My understanding is that Apple has an extremely special license with ARM partially because they helped fund ARM when it was spun out of Acorn and they are not required to conform to the specifications like other licensees.

AceJohnny2

3 hours ago

Didn't Apple help define the Aarch64 instruction set?

ZiiS

42 minutes ago

I truly understand the frustration of people asking when will it be done, and that DP Alt Mode got past that point. However it was in an official progress report, but then the last three don't mention it at all. (I have been running it without issue that whole time). A single line on the current scale of outstanding bugs would really help.

throwa356262

2 hours ago

Everyone is free to work on whatever they want, but...

I wish the amount of time and brain power spent on this project was instead used to work on something more friendly to the Linux community.

For example to improve Strix Halo GPU and NPU support.

SXX

2 hours ago

People who work on Asahi want exactly that - working on black box hardware with no specification.

Most likely they just not interested in working on well maintained drivers that require 1000 times more effort to upstream code.

vrinsd

2 hours ago

I agree with this sentiment. If someone wants to do a bunch of reverse engineering, maybe they could try to get full mainline support for older Qualcomm mobile phone/tablet SoCs and minimize/get rid of BLOBs?

All the fun of reverse engineering and we know the processors already run Linux...

MBCook

8 hours ago

Amazing progress as usual. It’s been fun watching just how much a few people can accomplish over the last few years despite working on sometimes unstable sand.

megous

8 hours ago

Yeah, you'll find out that va-api is not a good match for v4l2-requests. It does not pass decoded bitstream to the drivers as is, but pre-computes some things for some codecs, while v4l2-requests mostly expects original information parsed from the bitstream.

https://xff.cz/git/libva-v4l2_request/

laidoffamazon

4 hours ago

Is Asahi an LLM-hostile project? I'd imagine this is something that would be benefitted tremendously with a Fable class model

alberth

4 hours ago

> Meanwhile, donations and pledges kept slowly decreasing, and have done so since the project launched. Not enough to spell immediate doom for my dream of working on Asahi full time in the short term, but enough to make me wonder if any of this was really appreciated. The all-time peak monthly donation volume was the very first month or two. It seemed the more things we accomplished, the less support we had.

I think the issue is funding is so low the developers don’t even have access to newer Apple Siicon, let alone funding for token costs, etc.

https://marcan.st/2025/02/resigning-as-asahi-linux-project-l...

worldsavior

2 hours ago

Using LLMs in a project like this is also somewhat illegal, because LLMs may have inside information about apple devices and it's not allowed to use it.

hhh

2 hours ago

do you have a source for this? it doesn't really make sense to me

realusername

2 hours ago

That's nonsense, then it would also be somewhat illegal to use it inside Apple, being trained on GPL licensed code (and it's not even a possibility here but a known fact)

TiredOfLife

4 hours ago

And all that with a hard fork of kernel

kmeisthax

5 hours ago

I was seriously worried the various incompatibilities the M3 bootloader had with Asahi's debugging setup would mean way slower bring-up than M1 and M2 had. Seems like that wasn't the case - or, at least, won't be the case anymore.

MBCook

5 hours ago

Seems like once they got past that things weren’t too bad. Could have been way more incompatibilities waiting on the other side.

timschumi

3 hours ago

The processor version with the debugging incompstibilities was M4, I think.

znpy

4 hours ago

> Please stop Thinking Different

Considering how much better m-series CPUs are, i’d say actually keep thinking different.

ksec

3 hours ago

AFAWK, M6 CPU is a die shrink of M5, so unless something M7 present that will significantly improve CPU performance. The ARM C1 CPU core that is available to everyone has pretty much matched up to Apple. And that is all things included from performance, power, die size etc.

worldsavior

2 hours ago

Can you just use normal acronyms instead of something like AFAWK? Why not AFAIK? Do I need to know every acronym there is on the internet?

znpy

6 minutes ago

And?

LoganDark

7 hours ago

I'm extremely excited to hear that the hypervisor now works on M4! Can't wait to try out Asahi in a year or two.

tiahura

6 hours ago

macOS is so terrible. Godspeed!

LoganDark

5 hours ago

To downvoters: historically, a decent number of Windows and Linux users would run the operating systems on Apple hardware. I myself ran a triple-boot between macOS, Windows and Linux for years (although I still mainly used the machine for macOS). Apple Silicon demolished that market, and Asahi Linux is like a light at the end of the tunnel for those users who were entirely left behind by the ARM transition.

djfergus

8 hours ago

Fantastic to see the progress and a fascinating detailed write-up.

You have to appreciate the effort Apple puts into security - goes some way to understanding why they won't endorse/support installing an alternative operating system.

LoganDark

7 hours ago

Apple has gone through tremendous effort to enable alternative operating systems on Apple Silicon Macs: https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/open-os-interop/

nvme0n1p1

5 hours ago

Are you sure you linked the right page? This looks like a list of workarounds the Asahi team had to figure out.

LoganDark

5 hours ago

Oh, my bad, I think the one I intended was this one: https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/#apples-unspok...

> Rumours circulating that Apple are actively hostile towards efforts such as Asahi, or that their security must be bypassed or jailbroken to run untrusted code are unfounded and false. In fact, Apple have expended effort and time on improving their security tooling in ways that only improve the execution of non-macOS binaries. An example of this is giving their Boot Policy configuration tool the ability to wrap raw AArch64 code in a proper Mach-O format starting with macOS 12.1. This is only ever required for enrolling a boot object that is not already a macOS kernelcache.

bigyabai

6 hours ago

Most of those accommodations are for macOS, and make very few (if any) concessions for alternative operating systems. We're talking Qualcomm-tier effort.

Intel and AMD set the standard for "tremendous effort" bringing up support for alternative OSes. Nvidia follows behind, and Apple's support is (somehow) behind Nvidia's foot-dragging.

HDBaseT

6 hours ago

This is true, although Apple could of just as easily prevented alternative OSes as a whole if they wanted to.

Rohansi

5 hours ago

They already have the ability to prevent alternative operating systems. They use the same or similar SoCs in their other product lines and those do not let you do this.

Yes, Apple put effort into making it possible to install alternative operating systems on Macs, but that is an exception to the design because the chips are designed to be locked down. I expect Apple to remove the option at some point because nobody is using it on any of the recent hardware.

LoganDark

4 hours ago

I see a lot of dual-purpose here. Maybe you don't, or maybe you figure it's just a coincidence that Linux can also benefit from this. Apple definitely had it in mind, and designed for it, even if they don't release documentation.

foltik

5 hours ago

Absolutely not. They put in the literal bare minimum possible effort short of locking down the platform entirely.

You get a jmp to some arm64 instructions of your choosing, with a bunch of CPU features locked out.

LoganDark

5 hours ago

I will admit I am a bit confused by them locking out features like that, especially since they didn't at first. I wouldn't jump to assuming it's hostile, though.

oblio

4 hours ago

> tremendous efforts

Tremendous efforts would be to publish reference manuals for all their hardware components.

Apple is doing the bare minimum, which is to not build 10km tall walls around its walled garden.

But in the modern day of walled gardens, that's viewed as generosity.

LoganDark

4 hours ago

This is Apple we're talking about. What may be the bare minimum for you was a lot of work for them. Work they could have passed up and we would've all had to simply deal with it. They do that all the time, and there's nothing we can do about it. But here they didn't. Here they did "the bare minimum" to allow custom operating systems on their newer hardware. That should be commended. Yes, we should celebrate that hardware we purchase and own still allows us to run code we wrote. Because the alternative is that it could not. Their non-macOS devices already don't.

To be perfectly clear, Apple is like a lifeline to a lot of people. They are one of the last bastions of quality in the hardware and software world. This is why it's such a disappointment that they've been faltering lately: we had high expectations of them, which hasn't been quite so true for the rest of the industry for a while. So it is a big deal that hidden gems like this continue to crop up from them: it is a sign that some of their core values still remain. And I really hope the new CEO will bring back some of what they lost after Steve Jobs.

foltik

an hour ago

Being able to run “custom” code is the default state of computers, and doesn’t require additional effort on the part of the manufacturer. How do you think they got their own code on there? Apple has just not spent effort in the opposite direction to lock it down in this case. That’s not something to celebrate, we should demand it as the bare minimum, ideally via the law.