structuredPizza
7 hours ago
I posted this yesterday, it was flagged.
Today, I am posting it again because I believe the HN readers will benefit from it. Why? The majority of HN readers work in IT or adjacent information fields; we communicate information with strings aka words.
donohoe
7 hours ago
It has been flagged again after being #1 on frontpage.
layer8
7 hours ago
Falsehoods programmers believe about strings: All strings are words.
More seriously: While I find the topic appropriate for HN, connecting the topicality to the use of strings in IT is weird. If the ban only applied to audio or sign language, the topic wouldn’t be any less appropriate.
torstenvl
7 hours ago
I flagged it because it is hyper-partisan hyperbole. Censorship is when the government prevents others from speaking. When the government decides what the government itself will or will not say, that is not censorship, and—from a First Amendment perspective—it is perfectly appropriate. See Walker v. Texas Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans, 576 U.S. 200, 115 S.Ct. 2239 (2015).
jaybrendansmith
6 hours ago
Yes, it definitely is censorship, because scientists employed by the government may not report findings, existing government information is being erased, and the public cannot access it. So studies about racial concerns are cancelled, programs measuring the rate of climate change are being cancelled and the data and even the data collecting instrumentation is destroyed. This list of banned words is just one aspect of the censorship ... taken as a whole, this is an unconstitutional censorship of data that has public health and public safety implications. Does it qualify as Hacker News? Well, does Hacker News even exist when we no longer have access to critical data? Is that not topical? And does this kind of post suddenly become relevant when the government starts censoring the website directly? And how would we know when that starts to happen? Are you going to magically send us all letters in the mail? Or will you just silently acquiesce?
torstenvl
5 hours ago
Flatly incorrect in all respects. Justice Breyer had an extreme minority concurrence in Summum that might have been sympathetic to your view—he would have used a balancing test even in government speech cases—but it quite simply is not the law.
Pulcinella
6 hours ago
the mention of which can now result in research grants or other agreements with the federal government getting nixed.
That sounds like censorship to me.
torstenvl
6 hours ago
That's definitionally unsound. Again. The government deciding what government speech will be is not censorship.
Pulcinella
6 hours ago
No it's the government deciding what you are and are not allowed to say in your grant.
torstenvl
6 hours ago
That string of words is nonsensical. Literally nothing in the OP is talking about "your grant."
If you want to start your own grant, either personally or through a foundation you start, nothing in the OP pertains to you.
The OP is only about whether the government will endorse speech contained in your application for a government grant, which—again—is categorically different from what you said and fundamentally not censorship.
loeg
6 hours ago
Also, it's just clearly not true, even for the government? For example, here is the CDC mentioning Opioids, which are ostensibly "banned:" https://www.cdc.gov/overdose-prevention/about/understanding-... . Similarly, "female:" https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/images/databriefs/451-500/db491-fig...
Many of the rest are clearly editorial or phrasing preferences (e.g., "Latinx" in place of "Latino/a"), which are reasonable to have; I'm sure any mainstream publication like the NYT also has its own preferred language and style guidelines.
torstenvl
6 hours ago
True. And a lot of examples from the previous administration, for example, where you weren't allowed to say "gay" or "equality" or "equal opportunity."
fmbb
6 hours ago
There is not simply one government in the US.
It seems the federal executive admin is censoring government websites of all levels and branches of government.
ModernMech
5 hours ago
Even still, this list is passed around at my university where researchers are censoring their proposals to not include these words. That's called a chilling effect, and it's against the ideals of free speech.
nhinck2
6 hours ago
Surely you are not so stupid to misunderstand and ignore the chilling effects of this?