imenani
3 hours ago
For anyone wondering “how slow is this?”
IIUC, Kimi K3 on RTX 6000 Ada (48GB) takes 292 s/token
bensyverson
3 hours ago
I do think these “run a bigger model than will fit in VRAM” projects are necessary steps, but are they functionally useful or helpful to anyone currently? For example, is anyone out there running a big Qwen for coding on a 16-32GB machine with these techniques?
pizza234
2 hours ago
> but are they functionally useful or helpful to anyone currently?
Yes and no, depend on your expectations. Some/many like to run local LLMs just for the sake of it, so anything will do.
MoE are useful on PC systems, at the condition of having high enough memory bandwidth (and large amounts of RAM) - that is, Threadripper/Pro.
The advantage of MoE is that only a subset of the model's experts is used for each token, so not all weights need to be present in VRAM at once. The remaining weights can reside in system RAM, although moving and accessing them still carries a substantial performance cost (and that's why high memory bandwidth is needed).
ddevnyc
2 hours ago
Does MoE help with multimodality? Can it in general enable reasoning in imagery (technical drawings, diagrams, schematics) rather than text-based?
dannyw
2 hours ago
MoE has nothing to do with multimodality.
MoE is a concept proposed in 1991, before the deep learning era (which is before what I call the transformers era). You can think of it like sharing.
Contrary to popular belief; 'experts' in MoE LLMs do not specialize. There's no expert trained to be good at maths, or python, or writing, or whatever. It's an inference optimization.
As for reasoning in non-text modalities, you might find this paper interesting :) https://huggingface.co/papers/2502.05171
bensyverson
2 hours ago
Are people getting decent tokens/second throughput? Some of these demos crawl at 1 tok/s or worse, which limits their utility.
reactordev
an hour ago
yes, I average 80-120 tok/s on my RTX 3080 with gemma 4 and faster with Qwen 3.5. The main use-case here is just code-monkey agents. I'm not looking for architectural guidance, but an agent to take a spec and complete it.
bensyverson
an hour ago
And is this using conventional model loading (all in VRAM), or are you streaming it in some way?
nickpsecurity
2 hours ago
If I could justify wear and tear and electricity, I was willing to do something like this for batch processing. The batches would be a bunch of prompts whose outputs I'd look at the next day. Maybe common operations, like QA or refactoring, on whatever software I wrote.
If so, I could use a larger model than I have real-time hardware for. The largest, well-trained models can often get the output mostly right in one try. I also would be using AI's as a supplement to, not replacement for, my own brain. So, issues with the outputs wouldn't be a problem because I'm just keeping what's helpful.
If I still need to re-generate it all, it might still save money over time by avoiding cloud costs. Also, hardware that's already paid for is a sunk cost that doesn't inflate over time. Glitches in loading or destroying VM's might blow up into a big bill.
xnorswap
2 hours ago
I wonder what this measures in J/token.
throwawayffffas
2 hours ago
Assuming 30% gpu power utilization because of all the loading and unloading 29.2 kJ per token
donquichotte
an hour ago
Damn 15 AK47 bullets per token
jackb4040
3 hours ago
Ahaha thank you, I naively assumed the unlabeled graph in the readme was tps, not spt!
throwawayffffas
2 hours ago
Running 292 tps on K3 would make your gpu a money printer.
meneton
9 minutes ago
spt not tps
mring33621
2 hours ago
How many is that in tokens per Scaramucci?
exe34
an hour ago
Hah I was looking for it and couldn't work out how many years/token. 292s is pretty good.
logicallee
2 hours ago
that's 0.003 tokens/second. To get an hour's work done that's normally 30 tokens/second (108k output tokens in an hour) will take 416 days at this rate. And if you're using 100 watts, during that time you will spend $124.61 in electricity, as well as not being able to use your device for something else, plus the noise and heat from your device.
For $124, on Moonshot's official Kimi K3 API rates ($0.30 per 1M cached input, $3 per 1M fresh input, $15 per 1M fresh output), you can purchase 42 million fresh-input tokens, or 8.3 million generated output tokens, in whatever mix you want.
So what you get is 80x more expensive and you wait 416 days to get it.