badatnames
4 hours ago
I've looked at doing this in Europe before, interest-bearing completely changes the classification of the prepayment. I didn't dig too deeply, but the general gist was that regulation-wise it really wasn't worth doing for a relatively gimmick-level feature
bko
3 hours ago
I've heard about similar regulatory barriers especially in finance so this does not surprise me.
A long time ago I remember reading about banks that want to provide incentives for saving that amount to basically lottery tickets. The idea is that people aren't thrilled about a savings account that pays 2%, but if instead they offered a monthly 1 in 50 chance to get 100% return (same expected value, ignore compounding), people would like that a lot more. But this amounted to essentially a lottery and that's a state monopoly.
dmurray
3 hours ago
Ireland, like the UK, has a system of Prize Bonds that work exactly like this, administered by the state. The expected return on them is actually quite competitive, depending on your tax situation.
Everyone here seems to have got a present of €20 Prize Bonds for a 10th birthday from an aunt or grandmother, yet people from outside are always surprised that such a product can exist.
mnahkies
24 minutes ago
My return on premium bonds this year (so far) is roughly 3.2% annualised - it's not bad considering that it's tax free, and secured by the government
linohh
16 minutes ago
Which is a good thing. While it may seem strange to regulate these things for good faith actors, it's obvious why it's a great when thinking about bad faith actors.
arcfour
14 minutes ago
Yes, I love maximally restricting rights of others for unclear reasons.
mynegation
3 hours ago
I think that is why Carolina Cloud pays the interest in credits (redeemable for their services), as opposed to cash. It is not much different how some business give you a discount if you pay the amount upfront or in a more convenient form of payment.
dannyw
2 hours ago
At scale, a decent number of commercial/business agreements have Net Discount provisions (or provisions to that effect); basically get a % discount if you pay within X days; or pay the full amount with no discount in Y days, so the general arrangement is far from unorthodox.
Opening it up to everyone is nice.
jwrallie
3 hours ago
In some regulations you can also be expected to declare and pay tax on the money you earned from the interest, which can be annoying to do for such small values.
dannyw
2 hours ago
Definitely annoying, and YMMV, but a lot of jurisdictions don't treat credits (that cannot be redeemed back to cash) as income.
In the same way signing up for $App and getting $100 in API credits isn't income; paying a bill early for a 3% discount isn't income; and frequent flyer points or cash back you get on our credit card isn't income.
bojangleslover
3 hours ago
This is interest on credits, not on cash. Once you start paying interest on cash you need a banking license. I think you'd be fine even in Europe paying interest on credits.
bux93
43 minutes ago
A "banking license" is typically for "taking deposits or other repayable funds". (There's other kinds of banking licenses, too.) That can be for 0% interest too, or even negative interest (e.g. taking fees into account).
infecto
3 hours ago
Why would you think credits and cash would be treated differently? I am not a EU tax expert but it would be shocking if that’s the case because you could create some pretty interesting schemes if by turning cash into a “credit” meant it was treated entirely different.
Maybe that’s the case for the EU but it would be surprising.
linohh
11 minutes ago
Even with credits or tokens or whatever, it's not completely trivial to find the spot where you can accept customers payments in advance and not be subject to financial regulatory frameworks.
addandsubtract
3 hours ago
Probably because you can't turn credits back into cash.
infecto
3 hours ago
Is that a law?
kachnuv_ocasek
2 hours ago
I'd guess that's a part of the TOS.
infecto
2 hours ago
TOS is not the point.
The root of this thread was surprise over rules around interest. I am saying it’s not surprising because companies could then easily create weird schemes.
alias_neo
an hour ago
I think you're overcomplicating it.
It's "ok" _because_ the credits can't be turned back into cash (thanks to their TOS).
If some business tried some clever scheme where they offer this "interest" on credits that _can_ be turned back into cash, they'd be breaking the law and would need a banking license, it's already covered.
infecto
an hour ago
I think you’re oversimplifying it. “They can’t be redeemed for cash” isn’t a universal legal test. Financial regulation generally looks at the substance of the product. Otherwise every company could sidestep banking and payments rules by calling customer balances “credits.”
Now let’s go full circle back to the original point. I don’t think it’s surprising that a company paying interest on credits may face more paperwork and rules for what is truly a gimmick that most large customers will never even care about. Which was my only point and I think the plot has gotten lost as this keeps going deeper.
alias_neo
42 minutes ago
I think there was an original "given" which was that in the US, (where I assume this is), these "credits" don't complicate anything nor create any regulatory burden.
That's not to say in the EU, or the UK (where I am) the case isn't different; but if it _were_ the same as the US, I can totally see why that's fine.
We have loyalty programs, a coffee shop gives you "credit" when you get stamps for your 6th coffee free etc, none of that seems to complicate matters... all because of the key point "it can't be turned back into cash".
EDIT: I would add, in the hope of further supporting my argument, that many places that offer loyalty and discount schemes, their ToS explicitly states that it's "not exchangeable" and "has no cash value", which would support my point (at least in the UK).
infecto
29 minutes ago
You started by telling me I was overcomplicating it, but I think you also missed the context of the thread. The original post was specifically about why they decided not to do this in the EU because it created additional regulatory overhead.
My only point from the beginning has been that this isn’t surprising. If paying interest on prepaid customer balances were legally trivial just because they’re called “credits” or have “no cash value,” companies could structure around those rules very easily. That’s why I questioned whether “can’t be redeemed for cash” was actually the legal test.
The loyalty points example is a different product entirely. Even for the linked company I imagine the only reason they do this is a fun marketing angle for winning a finance customer.
Imustaskforhelp
4 hours ago
Very interesting I am curious how this is the case, could you share some more details/information about it?
Also, how does it compare to say, accepting gold or treating a gold based ledger instead treating gold as a currency and similar ideas?
Also could this re-classification be ever useful too? For examples bonds being treated in such way?
bojangleslover
3 hours ago
It's the case because once you buy cloud credits you are in an entirely unregulated space. At Carolina Cloud, that means your cloud credits are nothing more than an audited and backed up DB entry. Therefore, we can do whatever we want with them. We could double them every 6mo if we wanted. We settled on something more reasonable (SOFR).
Not unlike the hyperscalers giving $100k+ to startups and it not counting as income for C-corp tax purposes. Totally unregulated space!
infecto
3 hours ago
What is surprising? Paying interest on cash is effectively a financial instrument. Not sure what gold has to do with it. If you pay a business cash and they turn it into credits that pay interest that would not pass a smell test.
No customer would truly care about this and in most jurisdictions you would probably go through a lot more paperwork because of the interest payments.