IMO goal based note-taking & productivity systems can end up being where the attention is focused instead of the goal. The more complex the system, the more focus is put into it. The focus feels productive but the reality is that the goal has been abandoned or delayed until the excitement of the system dies down.

I've struggled a lot with this. For me I think it comes down to not being intentional enough about why I'm doing the goal in the first place so I get distracted by shiny new systems that in theory will solve all my problems. With this in mind, I try to keep things as simple as possible and strip back as many layers between the goal and the thing that helps me keep on track to complete that goal.

In relation to notes specifically ( this is for tracking life stuff - DIY/projects/day trips/thoughts etc...), I use a reminders/todo app and one A7 notebook with a mini-pen that live in my pocket. The notebook/pen is the cheapest that i can buy with a spiral.

During the week, I work through the todo list in the notebook, and write my thoughts/things to research more fully. At the end of the week, I remove the completed todos from the app, add new ones from the notebook. I tear up the pages from that week, then write up new todos to the notebook for next week.

Whenever I get a new notebook, I immediately scribble on the front page before I have a chance to stop myself. There. It's tainted and imperfect. And then I've given myself permission to make messy notes, and jot down just whatever, rather than treating it like some museum-grade archive.

Designing something good for me means going through at least 11 seriously bad approaches before half understanding the problem and having a half-working solution. Trying to use a notebook to aid a learning or research process at all has always meant wasting a lot of time "perfecting" those bad approaches. And ending up with lots of notes that document nothing but a painful struggle to make sense. Looking back through the notes that I did take, in notebooks that I have been gifted over the years, is almost unbearable. The approaches I tried before arriving at the right one were fundamentally wrong, there is no fixing them, and it's painfully obvious when looking back. Aside from the emotional problems I perceive there, it's obvious to me that there is no engineering value in keeping those notes at all.

The current best design always lives in my head, and by the time it exists, the solution and understanding is so clear and detailed that I can't be arsed to write it down.

I do think there is value in taking notes for others, though.

What works a little bit for me is having a lose stack of papers at work. The topmost paper serves to put a coffee mug on top, that will take the coffee stains so the table stays clean. From time to time I actually scribble something on a sheet, and since the sheets are all loose it's very easy to discard any sheet after it's served its (diminishingly small) purpose as a thinking aid.

Idk that sounds like psychological issues, one must first tidy up the their mind before trying to find external ways like multiple types of notebooks for clean,semi dirty,scribbles and dirty notes. How about discarding messy thoughts or thinking them through until they become well organized and only then put to the good notebook. Notebooks are notebooks no need to complicate things. Its ok if its separated into themes like a notebook for general thoughts and a journal. Though in my note-taking experience of 19 years its ussually noy that important. I would just add extra ripped pages to my journal as notes on notes.

This reminds of when I was in school and we had 3 categories of notebooks.

1. A "rough" notebook to jot down notes 2. A "classwork" notebook to present those notes properly to the teacher and get them corrected and 3. A "homework" notebook to finish homework assignments that used to be given

It's quite a discipline to jot things down in the rough work book and then write out a "neat" version in the class work book.

I stopped doing it once I finished school and realized I didn't really need to do it anymore once I understood what I was writing out. But maybe it’s a habit worth returning to.

I have finally solved this for me. My system consists of two notebooks:

1. Small A6 pocket notebook which I always have on me because it fits in any pocket. Write down anything and everything in it. Bundled with a pen, leather cover,and tiny e-ink ebook reader

2. Big A4 notebook which I usually use at my desk. I used to have an A5 but since it’s not portable anyway, I might as well go with an A4

I really like this setup. There’s also a digital side to it, which consists of Obsidian for creating notes, Quartz for converting obsidian-generated .md files into static websites, and a simple self-hosted web server which gets new files via git.

This problem is so old and so common that people like Erasmus have commented on it. "Waste books" written by intellectuals throughout the ages still exist, one of the finest is Lichtenberg's. I keep a little notebook and even my main notebook has scattered pages labeled "fragments" that accomplish something similar.

I'm kind of on the opposite side of the problem here where all my notes end up as unstructured puddles of thought vomit. in classes people asked a few times for me to show them my notes - they couldn't even figure out what topic the notes were on haha

on a mobile the next best thing was replacing my obsidian's app icon (no endorsement - I don't like obsidian) with the widget that pulls up today's "daily note", whether I want it or not. on pc I have an autohotkey command that does the same for notepad.exe

I keep buying the pretty notebooks and collecting them. I hate writing on them because they are too beautiful. I've finally started using random company merch notebooks (that are not pretty) while I also carry around a pretty one for the pretty thoughts (which I rarely use because nothing ends up deserving it)

I used to keep an engineering notebook open on my desk just for this purpose. The left side was scratchpad, the right side was a more structured notetaking system of things to remember. When the left side got full, I'd start stealing some area on the right. When the right got full, my things to remember were probably out of date so I'd flip to the next side.

I've been trying binders instead of notebooks (especially the mini-binders from folks like Maruman). Binders allow you to easily remove and add pages (and tabs, dividers, etc). This gives you the satisfaction of making something aesthetically pleasing, while also knowing you can move a 'messy' page somewhere else.

I did the same 2 years ago. Used to make every notebook about a certain topic/theme and with a certain structure/style. It held my notes back so much... The solution was just to write anything in any way I wanted to in that moment

i do the same thing, i have a notebook stream of thought writing, notepad for scibbles, and a notebook for journaling (the one i dont like to dirty).

funny how someone else had the same exact problem and we came up with similar solutions independently.

I used to be much more precious about notebooks myself. I may have also found tricks or games to play to on myself to force myself to use them without fear of mucking them up with bad sketches or poorly organized ideas.

Eventually I got over it now and just use them as places to scribble ideas and don't care if it's ugly. I find that over the years I just started caring more about getting the thing I wanted to accomplish done than making sure I had a pristine record of the thoughts that led up to it. Maybe it's an age thing.

I have a similar idea in the note taking app I've written for myself over a couple years. I have a new daily page everyday with a simple but powerful tagging system. Adding automation soon that will be kick ass, but for now the mcp server plus Claude Code is pretty dang powerful. It's basically a clone of logseq with my own features. It's got templates and saved views and powerful filtering. It's been super useful for me personally. I need to update the README though. https://github.com/steezeburger/brainspread/

A nice thing about being left handed is there a few things I can't get precious about. Fountain pens are never going to feature in my life as I'll just smudge everything. Similarly, I'll never end up collecting gaming mice as most of them are not usable for lefties.

One of the nice things about notebooks (handwritten) is the juxtaposition of data, which makes it a joy to browse through and rediscover old thoughts and ideas.

The only note taking app I’ve found to be fun to browse is Google Keep. I love the layout, I love how things are “out of place”

On a side note, I’ve found Muji notebooks to hit that sweet spot where the paper is nice enough to write down something you want to keep and refer back to, and cheap enough that you can waste pages writing down spur of the moment thoughts and things.

I’ve been doing this for a decade. I call it the anti project: it’s whatever I feel like writing on that day. It’s not intended to write a novel (I’ve done that) or make a movie (done that too), or solve any useful problem. The purpose is no purpose besides to get away from the screens and spill some ink.

This is the lazy, pointless-TV-watching of writing. And I’d recommend it, but if I tried to explain why that would defeat the purpose of having no purpose.

Hand writing notes will always be my go-to, most 'productivity apps' assume you know what's important before you've thought it through - they ask you to organise your notes immediately as you write them. Sometimes you need the messy version first, and the structure only makes sense in hindsight.

I gave up trying to organize notes at all. I’ll try to keep the same notebook with me, but if I don’t happen to have it handy, I’d rather just write in whatever I’ve got lying around. Now there are many half-filled notebooks all over, and I stopped worrying about filling up one before opening the next. I don’t refer to them either, taking the notes helps me pay more attention, even if I will never read them.

All my notebooks are dirt notebooks

I tend to have many notebooks going at any one time, each with their own slightly different uses. But my trick for keeping things 'dirty' for my main notebook is that I burn it when I'm finished with it. I'll copy out anything I need to maintain to other, more permanent, places, but in the end it will be gone. Why not be messy, it will be ash soon enough!

I like this distinction “dirt notebook”. As someone who was never naturally good at taking notes, I’ve only later in life made it a consistent habit. That being said I’m realizing all of my notebooks of “dirt” notebooks. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. No consistent format. Just pure stream of consciousness trying to capture whatever was in my head at the moment, or whatever I’m trying to remember from a meeting or call or whatever.

I have a travellers journal and one of the inserts in that is my messy, unstructured brain dump of thoughts.

The other two are for daily planning and the more structured long term things. Seems to work for me but if I hasn't found something that works, I'd totally be down for a dirt notebook.

All my notebooks are either dirt notebooks or ones I won't write in because I don't want to ruin them

I still find myself coming back to a simple notebook now and then. There's something reassuring about using something that isn't connected to a huge cloud platform.

Another solution for this is a notebook with removable pages, you can scribble all you want and if you decide later you don’t need that page in this notebook you can take it out (toss it, store it, or reorganize to a different notebook) and add fresh paper as needed.

It’s also handy to be able to reorder pages if you’re bouncing between purposes, and gives you the option to have a mix of papers if sometimes you want lined and other times dot grid or blank.

I like these https://www.jetpens.com/Lihit-Lab-Pastello-Twist-Ring-Notebo...

I found my drawings on cheap composite notebooks are noticeably more free and more expressive than on high quality paper.

I relate to this. I once bought a beautiful notebook at an airport. Ten years later still haven't written a single thing in it.

Meanwhile I'm most productive with disgusting tear-off scrap pads, made of recycled paper (or like, composted bananas or something).

But why? What's wrong with a tidy notebook?

I do have a primary notebook, and by default, it is indeed a “Dirt Notebook.” It is my own way, and I’m sure things will continue to evolve. I use that single/primary notebook for everything, everyday use. I have settled on a standard A7 notebook making it easy for me to buy just that.[1]

My writing style is ‘harnessed’ by a simplified Bullet Journal method,[2] complete with diagrams, writing on the sides, sometimes vertical, and everything else in between. However, the interesting thing is, my notes are still one of those that gets shared by other people in the same meeting. I tend to draw out everyone’s speech and ideas into visuals that make me understand better.

I also start writing from the last page of the notebook too, to maintain a running list of TODO/TASK items.

When a page is parsed or transferred or no longer valid, I mark that page as ‘archived.’ This is usually done weekly or whenever I feel like it with the same simple fountain pen or a colored marker if I find it nearby. This way, I know which page I never need to look back at and which ones need to be re-checked later.

Individual pages sometimes contain TODO/TASK too. This is where the Bullet Journal method comes in to finish it off.

For contents that are useful for future references, such as resources of knowledge or ideas or a journal entry, I transfer them to my digital notes, the physical journal, and the commonplace book. [3]

These might seem complex, but after a while, they have become muscle memory for me. If you want to start off today, constrain yourself with something "un-dirty" like the Cornell Note Taking System[4] to build up a habit.

I’m including links to some of my personal blog’s articles (not very popular around here), but it makes sense with the above notes I just wrote.

Edit/Addendum: I think it is only fair to confess that I am inspired by the note-taking style of Leonardo da Vinci depicted and dramatized in movies, and TVs. I’m just a low-level copier and thief of the methods of such a great person.

1. https://brajeshwar.com/2025/notes/

2. https://bulletjournal.com

3. https://brajeshwar.com/2024/commonplace-book/

4. https://lsc.cornell.edu/how-to-study/taking-notes/cornell-no...

People don't do digital notebooks and have automation archive, index, and categorize their old thoughts? And, now, with large language models, automation can even infer latent consequences from what you scribbled. Digitally, of course. Unless you plan on having optical character recognition processing in the pipeline.

One reason I switched to the cheapest notebooks and cheapest (reasonable) pens is a feeling that I was attempting to live a simulacrum of productivity bathed in nostalgia for an era I never lived in, and which probably never existed.

There's a vision I am still somewhat attracted to of illuminating notes into a handcrafted moleskin (or whatever) journal and in doing so, creating an artifact that has value across all dimensions. This intention, whether it sits on the surface of my subconscious or just below it, detracts from the thing of value: what's being written.

What really changed my perspective was attempting to write seriously. The first draft of a long form work is the bare minimum to begin writing. Writing does not really begin until it exists. When I tried to adopt this into the notes I made in my professional life what I found is that, in general, I didn't really need much of the notes anyway.

> I can't seem to keep my notes messy. Eventually, I start structuring the notes, doing cleaner handwriting, adding a cover or some stickers

Is this a so-called humble brag? FYI my notebooks are messy, unorganized and dirty (from lying unprotected in my backpack). I rarely use it because I always lose the pen after each scribble.

Hilarious coincidence. Just as I clicked on link I had coughed so took a moment to say amazed if i had spit out all the freckles on the page.

I used to have the same problem I would buy fancy moleskins or really nice Japanese grid notebooks, and I always felt like I had to model what I was trying to get out of my head to the medium rather than just focusing on getting it out of my head.

Not too long ago I accidentally bought a huge package of wide ruled spiral notebooks. I hate wide ruled and prefer college ruled. So they sat collecting dust for a long time before I finally looked at the pile and figured I'm just gonna start using these and treating them exactly like you do - a drainage ditch. So far so good, the pile is half gone. Definitely helps to go with the no fucks given approach.

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