appplication
7 hours ago
> Here's a term for what I think is happening: the human reward function problem. In machine learning, a reward function tells an agent what good looks like. Writing code by hand was never easy, but it was full of small rewards. Solving a problem in your head. Understanding a gnarly bit of logic. Watching the code compile. The feeling of control. LLM-assisted programming has automated much of the work that generated those dopamine hits and replaced it with the cognitive load of review and supervision. The satisfying part shrank. The exhausting part grew. And there are no new rewards to fill the gap.
Say what you will about the Claudisms in this piece, this bit certainly rings true for me. With old school coding, there was always a reward at the end, the harder it was, the more satisfying it felt.
With agentic coding, I really doesn’t feel like that, at least not in the same way. It feels more like continually riding a wave of productivity, where small features or huge features have similar levels of interaction required. And that’s exciting in the beginning but quickly becomes very tiring.
DanielHB
an hour ago
You put it in a good way, I have been saying this for my partner that I don't fear my job is at risk. I fear I am going to hate my job soon.
I am coping a bit by still doing stuff by hand, especially stuff where prompting the LLM doesn't save that much time. And what I call "adding good taste" to LLM output where I move things around to structure them in a more human-understandable way (by hand usually).
thinkindie
5 hours ago
I think it all depends on your personal driver: personally I rather see a product I built in whatever way used by ever growing number of people because they find it useful. It means that the time I spent working on that helped other people solving a problem (hopefully).
That’s why a was always keen on cutting some corners when and where necessary in order to think about the user first and the code beauty second.
Of course I appreciate well structured and maintainable code but you can always strike a balance, even with LLMs assisted coding sessions.
hdjrudni
4 hours ago
I don't even want to put 'my' code or apps out into the wild anymore. I've built a a few things I think are useful and I'm using myself but I'm afraid it'll just get called slop or my only users will be bots. What's the point. So I don't get the joy out of sharing it nor the joy of the achievement. But I've widdled down what I thought was an endless backlog of features to nearly zero, I guess that's something.
encyclopedism
an hour ago
If it's code built by an LLM it's almost inherently uninteresting in that 'anyone' can also generate the same slop. Beyond the initial novelty the 'achievement' really doesn't stretch that far.
Your slop, my slop, their slop it's all 'slop' and no one can really care about slop. The novelty is wearing thin fast
Schlagbohrer
3 hours ago
Github's weekly Top Trending repos list is depressing. Slop on top of slop, many doing the exact same thing as each other with so much low-quality content it's challenging to read through and compare similar repos.
DanielHB
an hour ago
You don't understand what the OP said, your brain can get a intrinsic reward from seeing users use your LLM work. But LLM remove all the little intrinsic rewards from coding elegant systems to get to the point where you see users using your work.
It is all about the destination now where it used to be about the journey and the destination.
throw1234567891
30 minutes ago
I think you don't understand that they understand. For them it's the destination that matters. Their journey is different.
fragmede
3 hours ago
Setting up a loop so the AI can test its output, so you can have it go off on its own, gives me a dopamine hit. The more rube Goldberg-ian the hit, the bigger the dopamine hit. I setup a network->usb-c keyboard dongle, and a fingerbot so codex could remote control a laptop, plus a webcam so it could see what the laptop was doing, so that I could get hibernate working on that specific hardware with that Linux kernel.
verdverm
7 hours ago
Maybe it's different between professional and personal projects, but I get that feeling more often as features are not only easier to create, but also come out more polished and consistent. I'm able to focus on a single project for a month and have something pretty good by the end. Doing rewrites to clean up and reorganize has never been easier, so I get to see and feel more of the design space in action. The can be pretty damn frustrating at times, half of which is me/context, the other their nature
georgemcbay
5 hours ago
> but I get that feeling more often as features are not only easier to create, but also come out more polished and consistent.
Features might be easier to create, but I rarely ever get the feeling of I did that anymore from writing software.
"I told the LLM to do that" is different and far less satisfying for me.
IanCal
2 hours ago
When my wife has a thing she says she needs to do and I can help, I now ask “do you want this done or do you want to do it?”. I think this is a similar kind of split.
Sometimes I want to cook, that’s a thing I want to actively do. Sometimes I cook because I want to put dinner out, dinner being out is the thing I want and cooking is just a required step.
Sometimes I want to solve a problem, sometimes I want a problem solved.
Here’s the tricky part for me now and I think others are hitting it - when a machine can solve the problem does that devalue the feeling of doing it by hand? Solving a sudoku feels good even though I know I have multitudes of machines in my house that could solve it faster than I could pick up the pen. Games that place a dollar value on some item I can also achieve makes me feel like the effort is only worth $ though. This isn’t logical but I’m ok being human.
So for a personal project do I get the same feeling doing it by hand? Will it feel like I’ve just made my life harder for no reward or will it be a nice satisfying thing?
As the models get so much better the goalposts shift too, the less I direct the less I was needed.
It’s a weird time. Fascinating, exciting and definitely useful - but so much of what I’ve learned is rapidly becoming less and less important for many tasks. Still, I’ve argued for many years that more people should code because it’s such a powerful tool even used basically, I guess I’ve got my wish (and that side I genuinely love, seeing people make things with their domain knowledge and not having to learn exactly how brackets work in order to automate something)
j1elo
2 hours ago
We're just getting used to the invention of the washing machine. All clothes are equally cleansed on average, with good enough results even if afterwards some particular pieces need a bit of extra care, while before we had to clean them all one by one and paying attention to minutia and details on each piece's needs. Nowadays you just control a couple buttons and hope for the best.
Better to find joy in other parts of the process! Hanging clothes out is still a widespread practice in Europe, and some enjoy it. Likewise for software quality controls, testing, and full product lifecycle.
bob1029
an hour ago
> Better to find joy in other parts of the process!
I recommend the joy of helping the customer get what they truly want. Spend more time on client calls and intercept additional hot potatoes now that we have extra free time to work with.
The technology is a blank canvas. These LLMs are like 600DPI color laser printers. The customer cannot tell the difference between hand painted and LLM generated at even a short distance. Once you get your head out of the worry that not hand painting everything is somehow an abdication of your professional capacity, you may find this whole thing goes a lot better. Try to think of it more like a heavy equipment operator climbing into the cab of a Caterpillar D9. You could do the job by hand, but the customer would probably get upset with how long it takes. Why not just finish the damn thing? Fire the infernal machine up for a few minutes and then move onto the next task.
You may find that by using the big scary machines that you get to engage with far more interesting technology problems than if you had insisted on hand coding. The only real difference is that you get to enjoy the problems from the comfort of an air conditioned cabin rather than a hot, muddy field.
encyclopedism
an hour ago
That's such a naive take, the joy of helping the customer ha! That's a situation your employer sets up for you!
Try reading your sentence above and swapping in 'EMPLOYEE':
'These LLMs are like EMPLOYEES. The customer cannot tell the difference between EMPLOYEE painted and LLM generated at even a short distance. '
DanielHB
an hour ago
It is all about the destination now where it used to be about the journey and the destination.
nibbleyou
5 hours ago
I used to get overjoyed and would tell my partner how amazing programmer I am every time I built something that felt difficult at the beginning.
Now for every problem I know Claude/Codex will do it, and they do. I just don't get that feeling on finishing 10 features now.