> It’s bizarre to me to hear that HN has an anti-AI bent.

IMHO, it's a solid 50:50. The threads about new models and whatnot will be filled by hypers, the threads detailing the social and economic consequences (or the newest scandal of major protagonists) with doomers and haters.

Do you really think threads like [1], [2], [3] are pro-AI? I literally just selected three at random from today's feed. I think the only positive threads about AI here are typically new model releases.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48923079 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48921461 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48926590

I don't like what AI is doing to the world and the tools it puts into the hands of those who would make the world a worse place, but I don't have my head in the sand about the inevitability of what is about to happen in a lot of fields, for better or worse.

Companies will see it as a way to make more for less, they will lay off many people, not realising, as Henry Ford did, that to make money you need to pay your workers, so they can buy products.

What the end state will be is very unclear right now, could be bladerunner, could be star trek, could be 1984. Could be terminator.

We will just have to wait and see.

The article does not engage with its subject matter with good-faith engagement and curiosity. "Always has been. Always will be." is, inherently, the author's lack of engagement with the subject matter. "They cannot see the world outside" is a shut door that does not admit curiosity or an interesting comment. And so you are seeing this reflected back in the response.

There has been plenty of good faith ruined by trolls on both sides of the discussion. The vast majority of which are new accounts. HN seems to have been under attack for years now.

More generally, the AI discussions that HN regulars actually want to have are going to be limited to the business plans, press releases about new models, and the (very) occasional higher quality project that couldn't have been done without a big lift from an LLM.

Anyone genuinely wanting to discuss the truth from a philosophical or scientific perspective is never going to penetrate the profound ignorance on much of the business side (mostly startups and aging leadership), so why bother? Business is at least what everyone has in common here.

>We're nowhere near the "it's meaningless to talk about why you don't like it" threshold.

We crossed that threshold at least a year ago.

we're so near and literally beyond that threshold

But that's not anything new, and even in the same text you can see examples of that.

LLMs are a tool. The brush is a tool, the pencil is a tool. The way we write already is defined by tools. This very comment is remarkably defined by its medium, I can't control its font size! Or the font at all, for that matter, nor the color, hell I can't even control how and where this comment is read! This means I'm generally going to write it in English, a whole different language from my native one! How is that for "defining"???

None of this is new, it's all dictated by human experience in the very same way that the output of a LLM gets dictated by human experience. That's the way memes (as in, anthropology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme?) work.

LLMs don't understand, they just output based on some parameters. We've been here before.

The LLM is the next generation of 20th century culture. Until the early 20th century, all stories (from before homer to Shakespeare, through Dickens and so on), music etc we continual remix and interpretation. But as recording became possible and then film, cultural elements mixed with law adopted expensive production and started to become more locked down. Corporations (which are just machines themselves) made musical acts whose members were just actors playing a role (still happens today with K-pop being the most successful). Disney colonized the public domain and drowned out the origins, with their versions becoming canonical

But consumers were willing participants. Rather than make a costume of your favorite character people now preferentially seek out licensed versions of dolls, costumes, “official” soundtracks etc rather than treating it all as just more raw material for your own imagination.

I’m not saying there isn’t fanfic and remix culture as well but when was the last time you saw a kid with a home-made “character” T-shirt? They even buy sport jerseys with the ads included!

So the mechanical slop infiltrating culture is just the current apotheosis of this process atrophy of the imagination. Truly it is degenerative AI

It's very hard to be happy about things that actively reduce one's happiness. This isn't unreasonable. You have a different experience - that doesn't make everybody else an idiot. In fact, your comment (regardless of attitude on AI) is exactly an example of the kind of attitude that is in opposition to the curiosity, positivity, and humanity that HN historically represents.

Isn't one of the original purposes of HN not discussion and curiosity for purpose of learning and widening our perspectives? The discourse here is some of the most reasonable on the internet (usually), and nothing is better for us to challenge and assess our positions.

I myself am relatively cautious about AI, mostly due to ethical concerns, yet I often open AI related threads to be informed and hear differing perspectives and arguments.

A Hacker News without open conversations and opposing views is a Hacker News that has lost its way and, at least imo, lost its value.

This is probably the worst comment I've read in my several years of being here (and many more spent lurking). I don't think this style of "shut-up-and-chew-what's-shoved-down-your-throat" belongs anywhere on HN, sorry. Here is a community on Reddit that might be up your alley: r/singularity instead.

> This is what I originally started programming for, and it's the best thing that's ever happened to our industry.

I didn't, and your reply just reinforces my belief that it is bringing in NFT-style "influencer" dudebros who only want to hear positivity and shut out any criticism so that the bubble just keeps bubbling.

> I want a healthy, happy community

Oxymoronic. Is that what you really want? Or do you want something that appears healthy after you've sanitized and quelled any semblance of criticism that doesn't align with the "positivity" (or rather, the sycophancy you are probably drowning in, given your championing of AI)?

> I am sick and tired of anti-AI dogma. My comments on AI are all downvoted to -4 and flagged because anti AI folks have to dunk on everything excited about the future.

> I want a healthy, happy community sharing about the new tools and models

So you cry about imaginary internet points? Might as well just check yourself in at the nearest psych ward.

I'm sure you can find plenty of subreddits where only pro-AI opinions are allowed and all criticism is banned, if that's what you want. Or better yet, stop talking to people altogether. You have such a low opinion of human potential anyway, just talk to your LLM. It will always give you the ceaseless positivity and optimism you seem to want.

Hey. I've seen your comments in other threads, and have been one of the people who has downvoted you.

>I am sick and tired of anti-AI dogma.

"Anti-AI dogma" does not exist on HN. I see more posts in favor of using AI then against them, and most people on HN I would bet are pro-AI. If you want to see a stark contrast, go read a r/ExperiencedDevs post related to AI.

>I want a healthy, happy community sharing about the new tools and models. Not constantly dumping and complaining

Why are you surprised people dislike ongoing upheaval of their career field(s) and/or the constant FUD coming from the companies driving that change? Genuinely, are you incapable of reasoning about why this would be unpopular? Or you just being dense?

I assume it's the latter.

Also, be the fucking change you want to see in the world. If you want a space free from people sharing their thoughts, go vibe code your own website where you censor anyone who would dare question whether technological progress could have side effects.

Hell, if you do so, maybe you'll take some of the other self-victimizing AI users with you.

Why not vibe code your own HN clone but with different rules regarding AI? If you have trouble finding users you could fire up some claws to post and comment.

Fwiw people are downvoting you not because you’re pro AI, but because people perceive a lot of your comments as being borderline fanatical about it.

“I want a new HN that is 100% pro-AI and that shuts out the naysayers.”

Sounds like you want to be in a cult, buddy!

Lots of people enjoy doing things - no need to treat them like assholes just for that. The sci-fi version of AI frees people up - the real version sometimes (mostly?) takes away enjoyable work and reduces people's ability to make a life for their family without being miserable (which is the fault of the practical reality of our society - not inherently AI's fault).

I count quite a few of my colleagues into this observing and must learn role. My problem is that most entry use cases that are advertised are not cutting it for me. Write overlong emails that could have been a short hand written one? Write longer prompts to get shorter LLM email responses? Create presentations that screw up the corporate theme and send me fixing it? Write power automate flows that send me chasing errors? Particularly management and leadership positions are urged to engage with LLM tools but are drowning in the noise of busy days and flood of communication. Summarising emails that then misses the crucial information is not saving any time.

I believe we before we had "virtue signaling" we called it "sharing opinions"

This genre of comment doesn't belong on HN. Please consider leaving this on other parts of the internet.

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You're on a technical forum for people who work in tech. Expecting some bare minimum of technical competency beyond "ask the great oracle" is not a weird take.

Why would anybody hate a harmless human skill, like art, or carpentry? Why act like this ever, in any situation? This attitude has nothing to do with pro-AI or anti-AI. It's just pointless, horrible bitterness.

It’s not about throwing out the process, it’s about making sure the end product is the result of intentional decisions rather than just going with the flow of whatever tool is being used. The grain isn’t intrinsically bad, but in a performant typeface you’re going to be reading for hours at a time, over-reliance on a single tool will noticeably harm the readability.

By switching between digital and analogue drawing tools, you’re translating the work between different media, and the act of translation is what smooths over the bumps of any single tool.

AI might eventually become good at fiddling with the béziers, but doing that part manually is an essential part of the process. If you don’t fully understand how the béziers naturally behave (and when to lean into or push back against that, for both aesthetic and technical reasons), the end result will be meaningfully worse.