JumpCrisscross
6 hours ago
"Harvey previously stood as a similar character, Lord Buckethead, but was forced to create a new character due to a dispute with the filmmaker Todd Durham, who owns the Buckethead character" [1].
(The videos on this website are worth the watch. Hilarious, of course. But also...Binface conjugates Latin to Sky News, and not just as a bit. I don't know how I feel about the British comedy candidate outclassing half of the American elected leadership–and a good fraction of its industrial leadership–on IQ.)
dofm
3 hours ago
> I don't know how I feel about the British comedy candidate outclassing half of the American elected leadership–and a good fraction of its industrial leadership–on IQ.)
Your entire political system has flirted with anti-intellectualism for over a century; it used to pretend to be uneducated simpletons to appeal to the electorate (witness, e.g. the folksy “ahhm just a simple mayynn” gurning schtick of Senator John Kennedy, who literally fakes his accent and demeanour despite having a sharp legal mind and Oxford degree, and who could likely conjugate latin; he is following a path trodden by Bill Clinton) and now it has refined the concept such that politicians can actually be simpletons for real: Tommy Tuberville isn’t faking being thick and neither is Markwayne Mullin.
I don’t know about conjugating latin specifically (I used to be able to do this but the memory has faded) but the standard of literacy in the UK was excellent.
We do now have a fairly similar literacy skills profile in the young as the USA and Canada, but unlike in the USA, older adults outperform them, partly because more of us were exposed to the (now essentially eliminated) selective education (grammar school) system that favoured advanced literacy.
We are thus as I understand it unique in having (ETA: or having had) declining literacy; it is declining to the US/Canada level rather than below it but it is rather sad.
Binface went to good schools and has an Oxford classics degree, I think. Much of our political class did. More recently they will have done the PPE degree (which is more or less training to be a politician). He is in that sense as “establishment” as Farage, but more importantly he is a product of that fading system. So it is this you are observing; writers, politicians, actors often come from that declining tradition.
Side note: even many politicians from a non-traditional background have gone through this path at some level; the famously working-class deputy prime minister John Prescott studied at Ruskin College, which was a college associated with the trade union movement based in and sort of orbiting Oxford University that specialised in providing PPE-type education to aspiring politicians from working class backgrounds (originally founded, incidentally, by two Americans)
teamonkey
3 hours ago
I went looking for stats saying the UK has declining literacy rates but could only find ones that said that literacy was improving.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/explore-local-statistics/indicators/e...
dofm
3 hours ago
There has apparently been a little bounce in the last few years, a sort of long term consequence of changes made to education policy by New Labour and the consequent movement of teachers from selective education into comprehensive education, but for example here is an article from twelve years ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/08/england-yo...
We were, for decades, a country in considerable literacy decline, and the only one of its kind. Some of this might have been a consequence of scrapping the grammar school system without giving the comprehensive system access to the same resources.
I tend to think that when Americans observe that British politicians and actors speak with a larger vocabulary or more eloquently, the people they are observing are products of the tail end of the grammar school system and the growth of a bias towards private education that emerged in its wake; the school system that turned out men and women of letters used to be available to all and now is available only to those with money.
teamonkey
2 hours ago
> considerable decline
Again, I think, citation needed, since conservative media does like to bang on about this a lot, but I’ve not seen actual proof that education standards are falling, or worse than they were when I was at school.
What I think has happened since the close of grammar schools is that the gap between most educated and least educated has closed significantly. This government report from 2023 shows that gap closing, while also showing an improvement from previous years.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/675330e020bcf...
dofm
2 hours ago
The guardian article cites the OECD study that asserted this.
I do think that it took a generation to figure out how to put into the comprehensive school system the same deep focus on “maths and english” that was always the grammar school advantage.
My own feelings about having been through grammar school education are complex (I can see, in retrospect, what I lost as well as what I gained) but I do think that in a world where success might come from communicating with considerable nuance with a computer in written form, more of the grammar school model may need to come to general education: perhaps nothing matters more now than a facility with language and semantics.
thrance
an hour ago
That's because dofm is conflating general literacy with the political class'. There are still very smart people around, but they're no longer the face of elections. As they said, decades of glorifying dimwits will do that.
thrance
an hour ago
That's because dofm is conflating general literacy with the political class'. There are still very smart people around, but they're no longer the face of elections.
madaxe_again
3 hours ago
Isn’t it the democratic ideal though? Of the people, for the people. If a representative democracy is to truly be representative then the elected representatives should be… representative? Tuberville and Mullin I wouldn’t say were thick so much as they’re pretty average.
flir
3 hours ago
Nah, you elect the person who best represents your interests, not the person who best represents you.
Look on it as a hiring process. Don't you want to select someone competent?
altairprime
an hour ago
That’s a very interesting game theory question: the answer is not always “yes”, especially when it comes to people’s secret motivations!
JumpCrisscross
an hour ago
> Isn’t it the democratic ideal though?
Probably not philosophically. But it’s why pure democracies don’t work. And America has a weird problem of not enough electoral representation at some levels combined with electoral fetishisation at many others.
dofm
3 hours ago
Goodness, if Tuberville is average then the USA is in much worse shape than it realises.
Mullin, like MTG, has some political instincts and some facility with the parliamentary process, as it turns out, and I almost feel bad about putting him in the same category as Tuberville, but he is not a smart guy.
Don’t get me wrong, we have many mediocre politicians in the UK, but few like these guys at the parliamentary level.
The difference is this whole flirting with anti-intellectualism thing. Pretending to be less educated or intellectual than you are has just not been a big part of our wider culture.
Twey
2 hours ago
But we are importing this model now in Boris Johnson and Farage. As far as I can see Farage is doing exactly (a British spin on) the GWB strategy: despite having a pretty classical private-school upbringing he's created a ‘bloke from the pub’ character that is much more relatable to the lower classes, and it seems to be working pretty well.
It was really interesting to me to see BoJo's take on it, which was similar but with aristocratic mannerisms (and stereotypes!) mixed in. I guess it was aimed at the middle class, for whom upper-class dogwhistles have typically landed well.
dofm
an hour ago
I don't know if Boris ever faked being unintelligent or faked being a man of the people. Or being a bloke from the pub, actually.
He did fake being a buffoon, of course, but he was doing that long, long, long before Trump. He is terrifically intelligent and obviously absurdly well-educated, he's just a liar and a sociopath.
Indeed his chosen buffoonish, winging-it character hints at that, because buffoon is the easiest comic role to play if you have very little empathy. It blunts all the qualities that would make him unbearable. His buffoon routine was helped by him being very authentically clumsy across all domains both physical and intellectual, and it helped him manage that too. The upper-class twit aspect couldn't be avoided so he doubled down on it from early on.
(He has his brother and sister to thank for humanising him, and his father to blame for his worst impulses)
Farage is definitely playing at Trumpism, and he has the cruelty aspect nailed down, but he lacks the ability to clown, doesn't he? He's fundamentally sour-faced and nasty.
pjc50
34 minutes ago
The remarkable one is Kemi Badenoch, who would be in more trouble if anyone was actually paying attention to the unhinged things she's saying as leader of the Conservative party.
If Farage survives the crypto donation scandal (and is therefore free to take more dodgy money), there's a real risk that the default rightwing party becomes Reform and the Conservatives become irrelevant, which would be a bizarre act of self-destruction.
BLKNSLVR
5 hours ago
Excerpt from linked page:
> I came to Earth in 2017 and stood against Prime Minister Theresa May (as ‘Lord Buckethead’). Then in 2018, after an unfortunate battle on the planet Copyright, I rewspawned in my true form as Count Binface.
unfitted2545
4 hours ago
I think it's so interesting he was a scriptwriter for "The Thick of It", a satirical comedy about British politics
dofm
2 hours ago
FWIW I don’t at all think it’s wrong for people to pick up on whether this would make him a good representative of Clacton were he to win (which isn’t going to happen and he surely thinks it is not).
Part of Clacton is relatively well off; part of the wider constituency (Jaywick) is genuinely deprived on a national scale, and they really do need an MP that bothers to understand them and that they can relate to.
Farage is absolutely manipulating and exploiting them for his own benefit; he uses their concerns to give himself a way to play on the national stage but he is a pretty terrible MP (though he’s not the only politician to forget they have a local constituency).
But if Binface could win, I don’t think it’s at all wrong to question whether the man under the bin is going to be good for them.
His job, I think, is to expose Farage’s lies and insecurities.
flopsamjetsam
3 hours ago
That is excellent, and explains much!
gadders
2 hours ago
>>But also...Binface conjugates Latin to Sky News
He studied Classics at Oxford. He'd be in trouble if he couldn't.
zeumo
2 hours ago
Why would Todd Durham have issues with a Lord Buckethead doing his thing in another country and continent, but apparently not with a guitar player named Buckethead in the United States?
dofm
2 hours ago
Lord Buckethead (the at-that-point temporary novelty candidate) was much closer to (and inspired by) Durham’s character, to be fair.
Ultimately it is all for the good; clearly a -face name is much more quintessentially British.
Barbing
2 hours ago
Ouch, Durham’s Buckethead didn’t even make it above the collapsed See Also on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckethead_(disambiguation)
Also in the US, Apple’s search assumes we want the guitarist.
lmm
2 hours ago
Presumably because he thinks (rightly or wrongly) that the one is damaging his reputation while the other is not.
pjc50
an hour ago
Note that the ability to conjugate Latin does not correlate with good character, despite what the English public school system would have you think. Most famous example of that is of course Enoch Powell.
It is however true that you're only allowed to say true, intelligent things in British politics if you're a joke candidate. Jester's privilege. Binface has driven the rightwing press mad because he's the last threat to their darling candidate, so they're now trying to smear him as if he were a serious candidate. Which he is not. The end result is very funny.
nephihaha
an hour ago
Enoch Powell was gifted linguistically, despite his notoriety elsewhere (and his Brummie accent?). I heard he was fluent in Urdu of all things, and was even seen speaking to Pakistanis in it when he was out campaigning. He could speak Welsh too. I was reading some academic paper on Greek literature once, I forget which, only to notice that it was written by one J. Enoch Powell.