afaik you can do that now on DDR4 platform Mini PC's that can handle 48gb or 64gb DIMM's.

Really? I broke my Geforce2 MX, so I had to make do without a graphics card for a couple of weeks. I think halflife ran ok in software mode on my Athlon XP 1700+.

I might be misremembering though. Perhaps I scavenged some basic pci card, but that should still have been worse than the ProSavage.

There are two phases to LLMs:

1) prefill

2) decode

For prefill, you are compute bound, and it is trivial to batch multiple input tokens together. When using cpu offload, software like llama.cpp will batch weight uploads with tokens that need those weights and perform work on the GPU. It works very well. With a large batch size and pcie5 you can get prefill speeds close to having all weights on the GPU.

For decode, you are bandwidth bound, and it is difficult to batch multiple output tokens together. There is no benefit to sending your weights to the GPU because even if it internally has insane bandwidth, you are still bottlenecked by system RAM (and adding a pcie5 upload would bottleneck it further). This is the number people usually talk about when they say they are getting a certain tk/s.

It's slower than the 4:1 ratio would imply, but it does indeed work.

Things get really slow if the model doesn't for in vram + ram and you have to go from disk to ram to vram.

5090 can do all but lossless NVFP4 (OMMA) and NVIDIA does fairly good quants of most anything popular. This isn't quite a 4x reduction from what you see on the label because they're a little conservative with the QKV projections (IMHO) but it's on the order of that. So a dense model at 50-70B parameters is the sweet spot. It's a great card for strong dense models.

In principle you could have bidirectional PCIe x16 pipelining at it would move the roofline a little with fast DDR5, I think llama.cpp has a flag for it.

Or go rent a B200 on vast.ai for 4 bucks an hour or thereabouts, a single heavy Opus session for a couple hours is like a week of any model on vast or RunPods.

NVIDIA publishes something called NGC containers that generally work out of the box. I started running Qwen3.6-NVFP4-MTP locally and then I'll put something heavy on Baseten if I'm lazy or Vast if I want a good deal.

Opus (and maybe now 5.6) are still the strongest for like, the really delicate shit, kernel modules or something, but that's on pace to cross over this year, and the overtraining and misalignment are getting so bad when they phase 4.6 out I'm pulling my plan. I don't pay to get gaslit about Constitutional AI.

It's time to have an exit strategy.

Making memory is easy. Packaging that memory within a few millimeters of a piece of silicon using TSVs and maintaining signal integrity on a 1024 bit bus is really, really hard.

LLMs aren’t all that compute constrained or even memory constrained. It’s just that pushing dozens of terabits per second through a piece of silicon is a physics problem.

I think it's mostly the ramp-up time, but ChangXin Memory Technologies (CXMT) is basically aspiring to do just this.

This is a very understandable misconception that I wouldn't blame anyone for having but MoE is actually terrible for inference in most any local LLM / home lab scenario. MoE is popular because it's cheap to train, but because most modern routing needs the previous layer's activations (except at the very beginning) it winds up being just this side of impossible to pipeline / prefetch without all the experts resident. Plus the grouped GEMM kernels have terrible support on any card in most people's house, it's just really unwieldy.

Dense models are very straightforward to share/pipeline because you know all the shapes and geometry up front, that's the inference friendly option.

MoE sells a lot of HBMe3.

> I guess they're just welding the memory to the CPU chip, but still curious.

Unified memory is more of an architectural and performance characteristic, and does not imply much about the physical layout of the machine. Most unified memory PCs not from Apple don't have the memory on the same package as the SoC. For stuff like AMD Strix Halo and NVIDIA DGX Spark, it's just standard LPDDR packages soldered on the motherboard in the general vicinity of the SoC, and the only difference from mainstream laptops for the past decade+ is that the memory bus is twice as wide.

Yes. The memory is just located very close to the cpu with wires "welded" directly to it. This allows the memory to be run as fast as possible but it's still a RAM component.

The cache parts of memory are on the CPU itself but they are on the order of MB not GB.

They are usually the same family, LPDDR is used for amd and macs, but the fabs are the same as the most expesive HBM memory, if they have a choice they are going to produce the ones that they can sell for more $$.

Yeah this is such a funny thing going around. Try to run or train a small/medium sized model on a MacBook. It doesn’t go very good compared to a dedicated gpu

This is likely the right path in the future but it isn’t there yet today

To be fair it's "only" half the throughput of a 4090 and a third of an RTX 6000. Significant but not an order of magnitude.