Diogenesian
an hour ago
This shouldn't be ignored in the discussion here:
The job performed by the humans was broader than what was requested of the model in this benchmark: humans also had to find the relevant invoices (searching through mailboxes, or requesting them from providers) and reason through any circumstances which cannot be inferred from the bank feed and invoices/receipts on their own. In the benchmark these circumstances are presented to the model as “user notes."
This is precisely the kind of fine print on white-collar AI capability that companies keep running into: pretty much any non-entry office job worth having involves a lot of undocumented (even undocumentable) problems requiring judgment and experience.And I would be pretty nervous about asking any of the frontier LLMs to retrieve invoices: "cool, Claude logged that it found the May 6th bill from the paper supplier, I am sure it didn't just make something up arbitrary, then compound on the error by agentically iterating over the made-up invoice lurking in its reasoning traces. I checked the first 30 times and there were no problems!"
walrus01
an hour ago
If and when a large number of companies blindly turn over their accounts payable workflow to some AI agent system, it'll be very interesting to see the "social engineer the LLM" methods that fraud people use to get money sent to them. Basically the same idea as the ancient "send a fax with a bill for an unsolicited delivery of copier toner to 30,000 businesses" but taken into the modern era.
edit: There's already a number of LLM which are intended for outgoing data loss protection to redact or prevent PII from escaping. Is anyone specifically working on a training set and agent that is specialized in reviewing "is this legit to pay", as a sub-task or filtering step in an AP workflow? I suppose it's a GIGO problem, as it would work best only if you have suppliers enrolled in some kind of existing db, with a specific contracted format for invoices, and correlating with project numbers/cost codes.
mediaman
26 minutes ago
You can fix this simply by using normal controls.
That's why we have purchase orders that can only be entered by buyers. Product is received and approved by buyer. Invoice goes to accounting, who can't approve it unless there's a matching purchase order and receiver.
Yes, letting agents do whatever they want leads to disaster. But humans are gullible stochastic token generators as well. And that's why the problem is already solved.
walrus01
22 minutes ago
Indeed so, a fairly mundane RFP, RFQ, buyer, receiver, accounts payable process will stop a lot of problems. If an agent is inserted at some stage in the process with a clear path to make a ticket/escalate to a human if it sees something it doesn't understand, the risk isn't absurdly high, in my opinion.
I've seen so many reports of humans with the authority/ability to execute an outgoing SWIFT transfer who've been social engineered into sending money to fraudsters... Or even just the basic low level "Hey I'm your boss sending you an SMS, please go buy some gift cards and scratch them off and send me the codes". No AI involved whatsoever.
The danger exists where some true believer AI evangelist type of management person tries to fully automate the entire purchasing and AP workflow, which I'm sure some people will attempt soon, with varying degrees of success.
mediaman
13 minutes ago
I have seen the SWIFT thing happen for $100k. I think AI could actually be better for this, because it's often easier to implement hard rules for the AI.
With the SWIFT incident I saw, there was a rule that no payment can go to a vendor's bank that isn't a current, approved vendor. But the rule was not enforced in software: it was an internal accounting rule that humans were supposed to follow. The AP person "thought it had been approved" because there was a similar transaction with a different company that was a new vendor at a similar time. The other transaction was legitimate, the fraudulent spoofer wasn't. The wire got sent to a party in China.
With AI agents, if you approach it from the perspective that it will be gullible and trickable by fraudsters, you build in these hard guardrails. With humans, it's much easier to believe that "we trained Lucy on this procedure" will work in all circumstances, even if Lucy still has the technical ability to bypass the official procedure.
In these cases, it starts looking a lot more like traditional software, with your little AI chaos monkeys constrained in little boxes within the software chain.
charcircuit
22 minutes ago
With AI you can scale the protection against social engineering. Where with humans you have to start from scratch each time and they are more likely to mess up.
Calazon
10 minutes ago
My wife (head of accounting for a small business) has been working on automating large parts of her job using AI.
It's not completely reliable and the human cannot be taken out of the loop, but the number of menial tasks she's been able to automate has been really cool. A lot of processing data that arrives in non-standard formats, generating documents based on that data, etc.
She still has to review everything, but her workload is way down, and when her assistant quit she automated away his whole position.
ofjcihen
an hour ago
Hahaha non-deterministic accounting probably won’t fly well with the IRS
frereubu
an hour ago
That made me laugh, thanks.
I remember talking to my accountant in the UK a long time ago when I was newly self-employed, asking if I could pass something off as a business expense that was sort-of-related, but I knew probably not really OK. Her reply has stuck with me ever since: "HMRC [the UK equivalent of the IRS] are interested in matters of fact, not interpretation."
ACCount37
an hour ago
Do you think human accountants are deterministic?
Get a large enough org and watch your accounting grow an error margin.
cucumber3732842
43 minutes ago
The tax code is so complex that business taxes are already nondeterministic.
adamkurkiewicz
an hour ago
Hey, the author of the benchmark here.
The benchmark data was prepared in April 2026 (when I was manually doing our VAT return with my co-founder). The invoices were indeed found manually.
Currently we're using a custom "invoice searcher" built on Kimi 2.6 (in our testing several weeks ago it outperformed Opus 4.7; it was just more persistent).
Ultimately, I still verify everything manually after the model is finished fetching invoices for the month -- but it's a great help to have all the invoices already found (usually correctly).
breadislove
35 minutes ago
adam, i'd like to get in touch and would love to run the benachmark with mixedbread as a search backend. we are doing this right now with a lot of compliance companies. would be very curious how it improves quality/cost e2e
adamkurkiewicz
17 minutes ago
Sure, I'm at adam@vineyard-finance.com
sublinear
an hour ago
AI helps automate things that didn't already have rigorous formatting and structures available as input... and that's really all it does (99% of the time).
Doesn't matter how many more nines you add, rigorous formatting is still required. In some cases, it has teeth with compliance standards. Those standards cannot be compromised because there are already a lot of other layers contributing inaccuracy. It all adds up.
In most situations, you could just hire a junior dev (or an intern! remember those?) write some CSV scripts and call it a day. Cheaper and auditable too. Those scripts can't change anyway until standards are revised.
I'm still not seeing the benefit outside of solopreneur efforts and shady businesses wanting to launder blame.
paytonjjones
21 minutes ago
> doesn't matter how many more nines you add
I don't get this argument. People say the same about autonomous driving.
But humans also have some number of nines. If you can get it better than humans, that's better!
sublinear
4 minutes ago
Manual data entry and other tedious chores are definitely unreliable. However, running a script that a human wrote according to committee specs is the most reliable part. You're conflating the different aspects of human work. We are much better at understanding our needs and arguing about them than doing the manual part.
So, I don't get your argument either. I hear yours often enough and so much louder that I feel it's a deliberate muddying of waters.
What cannot be obsoleted becomes bureaucracy. To my ears, it sounds like you're afraid of ending the wild west.
CodingJeebus
an hour ago
> And I would be pretty nervous about asking any of the frontier LLMs to retrieve invoices:
I watched an accountant YouTuber reviewing a new AI-driven personal finance app the other day (I really need to touch grass), and it started out just fine. He had seeded the account with a bunch of his data and was able to ask questions about which categories had the most spend, etc.
About half a dozen questions in, he asked it to calculate a certain segment of his spend (and being an accountant, he had his numbers memorized), and he immediately got back a calculation that he did not expect. So he asked for an itemized response and it hallucinated line items that never appeared in his account data, which he pointed out to viewers. He followed up with the chatbot with "where did line item X come from?" and the bot acknowledged that it wasn't legit. He immediately noped out after that, and who could blame him?