What Do We Know About the Microplastics Inside Us?

107 pointsposted 2 hours ago
by speckx

34 Comments

AyanamiKaine

33 minutes ago

Microplastics have always fascinated me, because I keep seeing article after article about how much microplastic exists around us, but far less strong evidence about its actual effects. That is not to say there are no effects, of course. Maybe we just have not found them yet.

A friend of mine worked on her bachelor’s thesis about the effects of microplastics on the immune system, specifically T cells. Her result was that the microplastic particles she studied were too large to interact with T cells.

She probably will not publish this result because she thinks it is not interesting enough. Classic file-drawer problem in academic science.

While I encourage her to do it anyways as a negative results is also interesting but she wanted results that are worthing of headlines in magazines.

magicalist

4 minutes ago

> Her result was that the microplastic particles she studied were too large to interact with T cells.

Her "result" of what? Was there an actual experiment and what was it's scope or was this by surveying literature?

Microplastics are of a pretty large range of size, and then there are nanoplastics below that.

I'm also not an expert, but a quick search shows a number of results of microplastics affecting T cells, some directly and some in terms of immune signaling, so this negative result doesn't seem that definitive.

(as usual, the difficulty is in teasing out in vivo effects)

legitster

13 minutes ago

> She probably will not publish this result because she thinks it is not interesting enough. Classic file-drawer problem in academic science.

It's truly insane that everyone in the academic class understands the fundamental problems of herding and sampling bias and yet every incentive is in place to do this.

schiffern

6 minutes ago

I expect many researchers are using fresh lab-made microplastics, which are indeed mostly harmless. However part of the problem is that real-world plastics are chemical sponges that absorb toxins (heavy metals, PCBs, etc) from the environment and deliver them in a concentrated dose into the body.

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/923529

app13

30 minutes ago

I participated in research from 2017-2022 that found similar results regarding bio-interactions, generally.

Learned a lot about making microfludic flow cells at least

jagged-chisel

20 minutes ago

> ... too large to interact with T cells.

Also, unfortunately, a result that industry and the anti-regulation crowd will use to say microplastics are harmless.

codybontecou

25 minutes ago

Can microplastics never get small enough to interact with T cells?

Retric

15 minutes ago

There’s a transition point where things stop being micro plastics and become chemicals. Those molecules may be toxic but the interactions are distinct from microplastics.

tristor

10 minutes ago

Unknown to me, but something useful to know is that there is something smaller than microplastics called nanoplastics. The distinguishing factor is that nanoplastics are particles smaller than 1 micron, while microplastics are particles between 1 micron and around 5 millimeters. As your other respondent notes, at some point you're talking about single molecules. As plastics is an entire category and not a single thing, there's no one size where that happens, but some polymers have chains that are as little as 0.01 (1/100th of a) micron in size.

As far as I am aware, we have yet to have effective, replicable research on what if any biointeractions exist with nanoplastic particles, including single polymer chains.

wxw

an hour ago

Some stand out takeaways:

> We assessed how reliable current measures are for trying to find microplastics in blood. And what we found is that lipids and fats will give you a false positive for polyethylene.

> We worked with an architect, and we built the lab pretty much from scratch. [...] So we ended up going with stainless steel. It was the only way to not have any plastics.

> I don’t think we’ve got really good evidence at all for what effects [microplastics particles on their own] might be having on human bodies. If we’re eating plastics, what size and what type of plastic can actually get into the bloodstream?

culi

44 minutes ago

This is a great interview, though I'd caution against reading it like a literature review. It's just the views and opinions of a single (relevant and qualified) expert

radiusvector

an hour ago

Did she debunk that article that was around microplastics in human testicles?

mrpeek

12 minutes ago

We’re going to find out at an autopsy.

skyq

28 minutes ago

I have grown to accept it. It is part of me now

MarkusQ

an hour ago

Very nice to see someone actually looking at the issue objectively instead of the unholy blend of clickbait, shoddy "science" and either fear mongering or blind denialism we usually see.

Getting to the point where we're actually able to measure something real is good progress.

danteocualesjr

25 minutes ago

we have recently transitioned to only using glass bottles in our family.

The_Blade

42 minutes ago

one word: microplastics

pohl

5 minutes ago

deep cut

tantalor

an hour ago

tldr, not much because we can't measure it to begin with

Agrue8u

an hour ago

did read, >e360: Do we really eat a credit card’s worth of plastic each week? >Rauert: That has absolutely been debunked

and >...we found is that lipids and fats will give you a false positive for polyethylene. Lipids are made up of the same building blocks as polyethylene, so when we analyze them, they look identical in our analysis instrument. >I know it is easy to say we don’t have enough information yet, but we do know about [the health risks from] these chemicals that are in all the plastics that your food is wrapped in.

culi

42 minutes ago

Not just because we can't measure it but because its hard to say what's due to the plastic and what's due to additives in the plastics

> And while we know a lot about the impact of chemicals added to plastic — such as phthalates, which have been shown to impact fertility, or bisphenols, which have been linked to Type 2 diabetes — we know very little about what effect the plastic particles themselves might be having.

andrenotgiant

33 minutes ago

I think hate of plastics is an emergent form of elitism.

Upwardly mobile middle/upper class people who've sort of "maxed out" the amount of personal identity they can buy with regular plastic things can unlock a new level of identity by deciding that plastics are bad for them and eliminating plastics from their life, a process which conveniently requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from their peers.

This is the only way I can explain how irrational and inconsistent plastic-haters behavior is. There is so much invisible plastic in their life that they don't seem to care about.

cobbzilla

25 minutes ago

> requires buying a whole new set of things that distinguish them from their peers

No, it requires buying a whole new set of things to fit in with and be accepted by their peers, to distinguish themselves from the outgroup, the plastic users.

I don’t necessarily believe this is some emergent elitism; I see it more as a modern religion with many many rules about eating and consumption (using plastic is now a sin).

Like any religion, sinners (for example plastic users) are mostly pitied because they are ignorant, but those who know and choose to use plastic anyway, well, it’s OK to hate them.

beej71

6 minutes ago

I don't get this whole attitude. Moving away from plastics in our kitchen was basically zero extra cost. Something busted, and we replaced it with non-plastic. Even bamboo scrubbers don't cost more than plastic (maybe even a little less) and I can't see any particular longevity difference.

I think the fact that I volunteer to clean up trash on public lands and know that weathered plastic is the period worst period to remove makes me move away from plastic in general.

Plus, a solid $3 wooden spoon is just a joy to cook with. They outlast the plastic ones, too.

Microplastic ingestion? Well, I'm not sure the effects or the relative quantity compared to tire shed and other industrial factors. But if I were forced by some diety to bet my life on if plastics in the kitchen or on clothing had a negative health effect, I'd make that bet.

But the main thing I don't get about the attitude stems from the fact that I don't really care what other people use in their kitchens. I recommend it.

Just please don't litter. :)

Apocryphon

8 minutes ago

I've addressed this idea in a sibling comment. I think at least some superstition is inevitable in any subculture. Consider how many tech 'holy wars' might involve baseless beliefs about how a text editor or programming language or whatever being not only superior because of personal preference but because it's inherently more optimized. Treating anti-micro-plastics as a "religion" rather than a subculture based on a meme deserves a bit more nuance.

1. Is it based on inherently irrational, unfactual beliefs, e.g. like anti-vaccination or anti-5G myths?

2. If we consider religion as a way to explain complex phenomena using just-so stories (the pop anthropology / layman idea of primitive man inventing Zeus to explain lightning), then what intellectual or emotional need does anti-microplastics belief validate?

Apocryphon

15 minutes ago

You could just liken it to any pop health, dietary, or environmental fad instead of trying to portray a banal "people turn consumer choices into personal identity/lifestyle" trend as a whole new class of phenomenon. Crunchy hippies shop organic and audiophiles buy gold-plated premium wires; every subculture has at least a little bit of superstition.

estearum

11 minutes ago

> There is so much invisible plastic in their life that they don't seem to care about.

Huh? You think it's hypocritical for people not to "seem to care about" things that, by your own definition, they are ignorant of?

Der_Einzige

18 minutes ago

Every plastic object replaced with a metal, or similarly strong/more solid material is an upgrade.

ButlerianJihad

27 minutes ago

Even more so: plastics are not a specific chemical and they are not a specific material. Plastic is a category of materials that is very broad and very wide. You can make plastics out of almost anything. Therefore, to hate on plastics is to basically hate on an entire category of engineering and material design but not to actually know what a plastic is... sheer ignorance.

estearum

6 minutes ago

Yes, it's a category of materials that is overwhelmingly populated by a much more specific, ultra-cheap and therefore ultra-pervasive, set of chemicals which are shown in study after study to have worrying characteristics.

Anything that shows evidence of omnipresence, endocrine disruption, bioaccumulation, and inter-generational transmission should be extremely, extremely closely scrutinized.

To think otherwise is absolute braindead contrarianism, full-stop.

godwinson__4-8

40 minutes ago

Are the microplastics in the room with us now?

ButlerianJihad

26 minutes ago

Please show us on the doll where the microplastics hurt you, for the jury please.

mythrwy

6 minutes ago

The doll is missing that part!