Farmer donates land for a park, city sells it for $10M as data center land

342 pointsposted 5 hours ago
by maxloh

137 Comments

zug_zug

3 hours ago

It's exhausting that the "solution" to problems like this is getting tens or hundreds of thousands of citizens stressed until enough public attention gives some small chance of redress. I'm not calling for violence, but if we can't get these things fixed in court there has to be a more effect and more forceful avenue for protest than venting on internet forums.

tptacek

3 minutes ago

I am ambivalent about whatever this controversy is (taking it at face value, it seems pretty bad, I don't know all the backstory) but we have in fact in the US the exact opposite problem: tiny, nonrepresentative groups of noisy stakeholders have an alarming track record of halting development, which has been deployed in the service of keeping home prices high, neighborhoods white and/or wealthy, transportation inefficient, and the power grid fossil-based and rickety.

josephg

2 hours ago

I saw a clip the other day of an American comedian doing crowd work in Paris. He asked the audience what America should do, and the French said - something like - they should punch the police more and light things on fire.

To me that sounds crazy! But, I can see how it works for the French. They protest all the time, and the government is very responsive to the needs of the people. Much more so than the American government sees to be.

smoe

2 hours ago

I don't know how effective the French protests are, since I haven't lived in Europe for a while. But even as a Swiss, at least judging from TV, protests in the U.S. generally seem very tame.

Not advocating punching the police as a default, but in my opinion, protests need to be disruptive if they're going to get anyone's attention at all. I don't really see what a few people standing on the sidewalk with cardboard signs are supposed to accomplish.

ramgine

2 hours ago

American police are much more inclined to escalate any violence instead of trying to de-escalate.

pesus

an hour ago

And if there isn't violence, the police tend to escalate things and make it violent. I suspect this works to prevent/neuter any serious protests so long as the potential protestors still have something to lose, and in America there is very little in the way of a safety net, so living conditions would have to (continue to?) deteriorate quite a bit before protests started heading in a French direction.

segmondy

an hour ago

Only because the people don't fight back. If they know that folks would fight back, they would behave themselves in the most polite and proper ways you won't believe.

mothballed

an hour ago

It's rarely acknowledged but a big reason why ATF and FBI toned things down after Waco is because McVeigh (he was there watching) directly retaliated causing nearly 1000 casualties of government employees. At that point they went to the current plan of just divide and conquer a single person at a time via surveillance of the targeted group after things quiet down rather than try to take on groups head on.

frogperson

18 minutes ago

Yep, you can see it in the way ICE operates. 10 agents jump out of several cars, they grab one helpless person and they all drive away. Like a pack of hyenas picking off a young calf.

morkalork

2 hours ago

Americans don't even protest on weekdays, they wait for a weekend to do it. So it is easy to say that they aren't serious but on the other hand, they're a lot closer to the knife's edge of stability and missing a day of work can get them fired (especially in at-will employment states), Europe is not like this as much.

johannes1234321

2 hours ago

And if they lose the job they lose their insurance, thus their medication.

This increases stakes to protest quite a lot, compared to European worker protection and social security.

morkalork

32 minutes ago

Yes, they've wound up having their whole lives very effectively taken hostage. Also criminals lose the right to vote don't they? Seems like the perfect incentive to criminalize any political movements that are contrary to the ruling class.

stavros

40 minutes ago

Well maybe you can get some worker protection and social security by protest... oh, wait.

SauntSolaire

44 minutes ago

That's somewhat understandable, what I find more interesting is that people around me won't show up unless it's between 70-80 degrees out.

vasco

2 hours ago

Do you think perhaps the two are related

keybored

39 minutes ago

Oof, could never be the case.

Guys, I feel like we should get another anti-union thread here soon. It’s getting a little too hot for comfort. I’ll start. Whew While I do like unions in theory, I was really peeved when I was getting my start in the working forces as a banana picker and this guy Bob took midday naps...

mothballed

2 hours ago

In the US if you're with a group of people and there is some leader or group planning unlawful property destruction or violence, there is a very very good chance it is a fed or confidential informant operation and you are the mark/patsy to which all the blame will be assigned when you're staring at a sheet of paper that says US v [your name].

soco

18 minutes ago

Are you trying to say the US are snitches? Or in any case, more snitches than the Europeans? More snitches than the ex-communists from the Eastern Europe?

oytis

2 hours ago

There are people with cardboard signs, and there are BLM protests or occupy Wall Street. Can't remember when the last disruptive protests were in Switzerland, but in Germany I'd say tame protests are the norm and disruptions are an exception

vkou

2 hours ago

99% of BLM protests were just people with cardboard signs. There's always the occasional anonymous asshole who might throw a rock at a window and run off, but that's the nature of any gathering of 100,000+ people. There will always be a turd.

In the other 1%, the police decided on a policy of always picking a fight with crowd, every fucking day, until they ran out of gas.

uxp100

2 hours ago

There was a lot of arson at BLM protests, and plenty of people beaten in the street, some of whom were in no way asking for it. The majority of the violence probably was the cops though.

BryanBigs

an hour ago

Watch any random sampling of body cam footage and you won't think the majority of violence was the cops. I'm amazed at the restraint honestly.

Now when I was a kid...getting thrown into a paddywagon while hammered after mouthing off to a cop was a right of passage.

Waterluvian

44 minutes ago

I think it’s important that the ultra powerful never feel they’re unreachable by guillotine.

al_borland

an hour ago

France is a much smaller country. When there is a mass protest in the US, it ends of being a bunch of smaller protests all over the country, which lacks the power of a single concentrated protest. These various satellite protests just end up being a minor nuisance, which don’t amount to much.

The media in the US often ignores the protests they (or their owners) don’t agree with. This also weakens them significantly. I remember having to go to Twitter to see what was going on with a lot of the Occupy Wall Street stuff, because the news was acting like it wasn’t going on. Without attention, and fractured across the country, it faded out. The protest area where I was living at the time slowly shifted into a homeless encampment, before they eventually cleared them out.

frogperson

21 minutes ago

That's alot less risky in France where the police have more than an 8th grade education, no guns, and aren't jacked up on right-wing hate propaganda 24/7. You punch a cop in the US and there's more than a 50% chance, that a given cop has been dreaming of "protecting himself" by any means necessary. In other words, you are going to get shot in the chest.

nicbou

2 hours ago

Is the French government more responsive than those of neighbouring countries?

boricj

an hour ago

Probably because we have a well established history of regularly changing regimes. Since we overthrew royalty in 1789 we've had five republics, two empires, three monarchies and a bunch of short-lived totalitarian regimes, coups and other major political events.

If anything, the longevity of the Fifth Republic is starting to become unusual (only the Third Republic and the Ancien Régime have lasted longer). Maybe we're overdue to flip the table again as per tradition.

nicbou

18 minutes ago

I don’t think that addresses my question.

Lerc

an hour ago

How well did they turn out for people each time?

soco

15 minutes ago

Health insurance, unions, paid vacation... al in all I'd say not that bad.

breezybottom

2 hours ago

Those two things are contradictory. Obviously the government isn't very responsive if they are constantly protesting.

dgellow

2 hours ago

It’s not contradictory, protesting doesn’t make sense as a one time thing, you have to continuously put pressure and show you have power as a group

breezybottom

32 minutes ago

Only if you have a government that isn't responsive or accountable to you.

LiquidSky

2 hours ago

I feel like in the US if you punched a cop the cop and his colleagues are much more likely to just shoot you, or at least unleash brutal violence on you and the rest of the crowd. I guess the idea is to provoke these kind of battles in hopes that the cops can be overwhelmed or at least public opinion goes to your side?

andrepd

2 hours ago

I know that "French strikes" and "French setting fire to things" is a popular American trope, but things really don't work like that. If that were the case France would be a much better place than other European countries, and it really is not.

BurningFrog

an hour ago

By what measure does it work for the French?

They have 8% unemployment, 30% less GDP per capita than the US, and many other problems.

Government by caving in to riots is not in general being responsive to the needs of the people.

bumby

an hour ago

Well gee, to start France has higher healthcare quality/access, higher life expectancy, much lower treatable mortality, better work-life balance (less hours worked, more guaranteed leave), lower wealth inequality, higher voter turnout (indicative of less apathy or less efforts to disenfranchise), among others.

One of the problems with just using economic metrics is it seems to confuse the fact that the economy is supposed to serve society, not the other way around. So it leads one to wonder: with those better economic measures, what is it buying for US citizens?

dghlsakjg

32 minutes ago

Many Americans have a strong bias for measuring everything in money. If you've lived there, it can be shocking how pervasive the thinking is in EVERY decision.

bumby

24 minutes ago

To quote de Tocqueville:

“I know of no country, indeed, where the love of money has taken a stronger hold on the affections of men…”

rapsacnz

20 minutes ago

Also France scores hugely better on the international cheese index

DennisP

35 minutes ago

The solution here might be the appeals court, since there is a deed restriction. The city agreed to it when they paid $10 for the land. The article mentions that Texas courts tend to be pretty serious about enforcing deed restrictions.

bumby

33 minutes ago

That property was transferred multiple times after the farmer gave it away. I can’t tell if that save deed restriction followed those sales

wahern

15 minutes ago

AFAIU, the people suing have no privity; they're just a neighbor and don't have any right to enforce the covenant. (If the covenant had granted them an interest, they could have.) Presumably the original property owner who granted the land, or their successors in interest, could sue to enforce the covenant, but they haven't.

SecretDreams

2 hours ago

It certainly feels like we need a reset on the expectations placed upon politicians at all levels of governance. Somehow.

I think politicians have completely lost the plot in their job and who they represent. Instead, they seem all ideologically or financially motivated, and largely seem to get their marching orders from select wealthy CEOs. It's a very bad look that will get worse since trust in govern being so low goes hand in hand with voted apathy. And voted apathy means we get more of the same.

It's a bad cycle and I think we'll land on a civil esque war sooner or later.

wat10000

5 minutes ago

Society's elites have forgotten that civil institutions exist to be an alternative to resolving disputes through violence. If they completely bend those institutions to their will and leave the common people out in the cold, the result isn't acquiescence, it's revolt.

I, too, worry that they're going to rediscover this the hard way at some point.

cyanydeez

2 hours ago

yeah, it's interesting how we're not allowed to call for violence, eh.

Lerc

an hour ago

The problem is that, while there are times when violent acts may bring about positive outcomes, it is extremely rare for those outcomes to be in the minds of those committing the acts. It is far more common for someone to commit violence as an expression of their anger, while rationalising that it is justified because they are aware of the arguments in favour of violence apply to whatever it is that they really want to do in the moment.

pesus

an hour ago

We aren't, but the president and certain politicians sure are.

mystraline

an hour ago

We absolutely CAN call for violence. And especially political violence. Theres even a TV show with it as a name.

Its calling for "Law and Order". Its violence against the 'correct group'.

You absolutely can call for violence (now) against protestors, ANTIFA, anti-surveillance (DEFLOCK), unionists, homeless, drug users, and other deemed by federal, state, and local officials as undesirable.

You cant directly call for violence to black people by name, but eupamisms are still fine to allude to. "Those people", "ghetto", etc.

And the violence BY police and government way exceed the violence by the public they target.

Also, thou shalt NEVER advocate for violence against CEOs, business leaders, politicians, and the like. Their lives are worth like 1M of us plebes. So those who come to their defense will do so crazily and way over-respond, like cops do routinely.

Thats why the feds threw threw the book at Luigi Mangione. Cause if he did it, his way is illegal but tremendously effective. And the elites have little defense against this.

(Case in point. In my local area, a person took $100 from a cash register, and got arrested for a class A misdemeanor and 2 other charges. Whereas the same restaurant had their owner committed mass wage theft of 27 people to the tune of $72000, and only had to pay a fine.

There absolutely hypocrisy who can advocate and not for violence.)

fylo

2 hours ago

You're edging on terrorism

hilbert42

2 hours ago

What is left when all other options are exhausted?

The American War of Independence, French Revolution and English Civil War were acts of terrorism.

Were those acts justified? Not if you're the ones who were initially holding the power.

Aloisius

an hour ago

Calling the American Revolution terrorism, in the modern sense, is a stretch. It was a war waged primarily between soldiers and materiel with the goal of ending the enemy's ability to wage war.

Systematic use of terror as a policy to induce fear in the general public to push them to coerce their government's policy was not widely used.

bumby

40 minutes ago

I’m pretty patriotic but even I can recognize some parallels. There are examples of targeting civilians (tarring and feathering loyalists, or destroying their property). If you consider the attacks against Tesla to be terrorism [1] then the Boston Tea Party would probably fit that bill as well. I’d probably consider it irregular warfare, but I wouldn’t call it a stretch for someone to disagree.

[1] https://signalscv.com/2025/03/fbi-launches-task-force-to-inv...

HDThoreaun

29 minutes ago

The french revolution was terrible and made every single person in france worse off. It is the exact evidence that shows that even in a revolution restraint is still needed.

_carbyau_

23 minutes ago

So why do people keep pointing at an Amendment when it comes to gun control?

diordiderot

2 hours ago

People have weird kinks these days

bcrosby95

2 hours ago

The funny thing is it's neither terrorism nor illegal if you're just lobbying the government to do it on your behalf.

fwip

2 hours ago

If a government does not respond to the wishes of its people, violence is an inevitability. It is in the best interest of the state to be accommodating enough to placate the citizens.

diordiderot

2 hours ago

90s medical advertisement disclaimer voice

Only if what those people want is something I agree with otherwise I think the state holds the monopoly on violence and we need to mobilize it against the wrong thinker.

protocolture

an hour ago

Whats the problem here?

Farmer gives land to city.

City goes "We can have 10 million dollars AND a brand new data center, hot diggity"

City is enriched in both money AND services.

Thanks Mr Farmer.

ozim

an hour ago

Farmer donates land for a park

If you are my friend and I gift you a nice item … I would be majorly pissed at you and would not talk to you ever again if you would sell it online.

I would expect you give it back or pass for free to someone who is also close to you.

mystraline

an hour ago

No.

Farmer SELLS land (for $10) with a deed restriction that it is to be used for a public park.

Hand wavey timey wimey...

Deed restriction 'magically' goes away.

Gets sold for $10M.

protocolture

an hour ago

So a city should tie its hands permanently because of a gift? Donations can now override city planning?

Tired of paying property tax? Gift your house to the city with a deed that says they have to rent it back to you forever for $1 a year?

Lets be clear, this wouldnt even be news if it wasnt for "Datacentre"

bumby

37 minutes ago

If they don’t want to use it for the agreed upon purpose, they could either offer to pay the true value so they can use it for something else or give it back to the farmer/heirs.

The real problem seems to be one city gave the land to a parks nonprofit who then sold it to another city, but the original park intent did not follow those sales.

protocolture

33 minutes ago

And if they need it for something else they could just compulsorily acquire it from themselves for 10 more dollars?

bumby

22 minutes ago

I’m not sure I follow. Are you implying $10 is the material value of the property?

potatototoo99

26 minutes ago

The city could have refused to buy the land for $10 if they didn't agree to the terms. Or claim eminent domain and pay a fair price maybe.

_DeadFred_

16 minutes ago

Yes. Society doesn't work if the government is above contract law. If the city can't abide by it's contracts it should not enter into them. Unlike abusive software TOSs the sale was/is not self executing/binding/changed after the fact. The city chose to enter into it with their eyes open.

enaaem

3 hours ago

American zoning is weird. You can't walk to a grocery store, but you can walk to a data center.

logancbrown

3 hours ago

You cant walk to a data center either

ojame

2 hours ago

Literally in the article is a proposed development that is (easily) walkable from residential houses.

soco

10 minutes ago

Who the hell wants to walk to data centers? From residential houses or whatever.

thepryz

2 hours ago

You obviously have never been to Ashburn, Virginia. Look up Lord Fairfax Pl. in Ashburn, VA on Google Maps and note the data center just outside that neighborhood.

kube-system

2 hours ago

And just up the road in Arlington you can walk to a grocery store

Leonard_of_Q

2 hours ago

Mwah, that depends on what you consider walking distance. I remember walking back from a Rite-Aid in SF when attending an IETF conference, entering the conference hotel and being asked by other attendees 'where the hell I managed to find a Rite-Aid here'? Well, it may have been a 1.5 km walk but it was there, sure enough. I did not look it up beforehand, just started walking out of the centre and found one. Sure, if you only look in the local block you won't find one but then again if I walk 1.5 km from where I live I only find more trees so everything is relative.

pie_flavor

14 minutes ago

I walk to the grocery store, and can't walk to a data center.

cowsandmilk

an hour ago

The zoning for that lot would allow a grocery store. Not being able to walk to the grocery store isn’t a zoning issue in this case.

taeric

2 hours ago

What? This depends entirely on where you are. And for far more people, I would expect they can far more easily walk to a grocery store than they can any sort of industrial thing.

malfist

an hour ago

I have two grocery stores within 5 miles of me. Both paths to the grocery store take me by an Amazon warehouse before I arrive at the grocery

snickerbockers

2 hours ago

Whats really frustrating is how silicon valley fights tooth and nail to stop housing from being built in their community only to force these data centers onto everybody else's communities.

pixl97

2 hours ago

Just makes you wonder how many of the SV types are wanting to use AI as the final solution for the poor.

pesus

an hour ago

Many of them, like Thiel and Ellison, are basically all but saying that sort of thing already. I'd give it under a year before one of them lets it slip.

lmm

2 hours ago

It all makes sense once you realise the purpose is to maximise the amount of car storage. You're allowed to build car storage in every zone. Many zones even have a minimum amount of car storage required to accompany anything else you want to build.

nmstoker

31 minutes ago

This commercial abuse is reminiscent of what Wimbledon is doing with land left for public park land which various parties are ignoring so the land can be used for tennis facilities. I'm a fan of the tennis but that doesn't mean they can arbitrarily ignore what was agreed as a condition for letting the council have the land in the first place.

Lerc

15 minutes ago

The picture at the top of the article seems at odds with the text of the article.

The text says 135,000 square feet for the data center. Given the area marked city owned property says it is 560 feet. 135,000 square feet would be an area 240 feet wide alongside the road.

The area marked in red. is substantially larger than that.

130680 square feet is three acres. I wonder if the number is a rounded conversion from acreage. It seems a bit short of the 87acres that is specified as the amount given to the city.

Maybe the entire red outlined area is 87Acres, It's kinda hard to eyeball an irregular shape like that.

sebastiennight

2 hours ago

Today the Sagrada Familia, now the tallest church in the world, was inaugurated in Spain, 100 years after the death of its architect Gaudì.

Can you imagine the number of H100s we could have put in there if this was Texas?

DrewADesign

2 hours ago

We can right these wrongs. Vertical cooling seems feasible. A Google Maps 3D tour of the interior would be much more accessible. You’re not anti-accessibility, right? This is a moral imperative. Thank you for pointing this out.

vntok

2 hours ago

The cooling towers are right there.

DrewADesign

19 minutes ago

It’s true. All we have to do is figure out how much money it will take to steamroll the area backwards NIMBY dumb dumbs that don’t understand how much more societally beneficial this is, and how much more important our vision and shareholder stakes are.

connicpu

an hour ago

Make it GB300s and now you're cooking with gas (specifically the gas in the supplemental methane turbine generators that will be on site for when the grid is overwhelmed)

dmix

15 minutes ago

It’s so funny how data centers became a popular boogieman on social media.

Modern information warfare

analog31

33 minutes ago

The uniqueness of this episode suggests that there are people out there who are fully occupied searching every square foot of the earth for places where they can wheedle their way into a land deal. If it's not for a data center, then it's a CAFO, a mine, logistics center, etc.

NIMBYism is not just a matter of wanting to preserve exorbitant land values, but a knowledge that every square foot of land and gallon of water is in demand by nefarious people who are not revealing their actual intentions.

trashface

3 hours ago

Yep its Texas.

pixl97

2 hours ago

I'd seen these headlines but until you said that I didn't realize how close it was to me.

ionwake

2 hours ago

Rumour was an old lady donated posthumously alot of money she had saved up her whole life, to build a university at Estepona in Spain.

After she died they never built it. The town remains pretty much the same as it always was.

Last time I was there they had replaced the red marble promenade that was cracked on the beach with some sort of rubber playground cement, and for some reason that I can only put down to malice, built a large statue that resembles a rat about 8 feet tall and placed it at the intersection of the promenade with the town center, where there used to be old spanish men and youths playing on many free foosball tables

Bear in mind this fishing town is next to Marbella perhaps the richest destination in the mediterranean.

Its almost as if as a child I fell asleep and woke up in a nightmare, when I visited.

Fortunately they left what remains of the old town alone and its still a beautiful (in parts) tourist destination.

jubilanti

an hour ago

For the median worker in a small town in Spain, an entire life savings of scrimping and saving could still be only a fraction of what it would take to build one lecture hall. Might not even pay for a single year of salaries, operations, and expenses.

Put a million Euros into an endowment, and at 5% annual returns, that's 50,000 Euros, enough to hire maybe one person to run and teach everything. Even if it was 10 million Euros, that's a lot less than you think if you want to start even a small school and not run out of money in a few years.

ionwake

28 minutes ago

the point of the story was that it was given to the council on condition they built a university with it ( she wasn't a fishermans wife ).

as in she was rich bro

edit> are you trolling me?

hmokiguess

3 hours ago

Can it be both? Trying to think of a data centre themed expedition now where you go visit the robots and interact with the machines

ipdashc

2 hours ago

You know, you joke (I think?) but data center companies could genuinely at least open up for tours to try to appeal to the public, if public approval is apparently such a concern. It's funny that they haven't done it at all yet.

Think nuclear power plants in the 60s or 70s, many of them were open for tours or school field trips or such to try to make them more appealing to the populace around them. I haven't heard of a single DC doing the same thing, unless you're a potential customer. Isn't this stuff kind of basic?

waffleiron

2 hours ago

In the Netherlands I visited a nuclear reactor in middle/highschool. Literally something that left such an impression that I still talk about two decades later.

Letting kids into places where science and technology happens has such an impact. We should really enable that as much as we can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_Institute_Delft

ipdashc

22 minutes ago

I genuinely think it was a big loss to our society that we stopped regularly doing this. I had a few such field trips in grade school, but nothing comparable to a factory or nuclear plant.

It's a combination of post-9/11 security paranoia, companies not wanting to do anything that doesn't directly make them money, and the loss of manufacturing and heavy industry in the West, all together. It's sad.

rogerrogerr

2 hours ago

DC tours are probably a nightmare to do in a PCI-compliant (and the myriad other standards they claim compliance with) environment.

ipdashc

26 minutes ago

It's not really too complicated, iirc. They already generally have visitor processes set up for customers and prospective customers.

The servers themselves are in cages, of course, and presumably the tour wouldn't actually go into those. Plus, yeah, what the other comment said.

aquariusDue

an hour ago

Yeah, but draconian laws aside (I jest a bit) if you can ensure safety for kids (and clumsy adults) visiting factories and NUCLEAR plants I guess you could manage the same for data centers and deal with a reasonable number of headaches.

snickerbockers

2 hours ago

That won't work when your tour guide can't even answer questions about what the computers do because theyre all running VMs that are rented out on an ad-hoc basis.

Leonard_of_Q

an hour ago

The tour guide could just give that answer to any such question. It'd be comparable to the answer given to someone who wants to know what that new railroad which was built where there used to be fields or forest is used for: people ride it to go somewhere, freight is passing over it going places.

Having said this I do feel like these data centres should be built in such a way that waste heat is used in some way. Use it to heat structures, greenhouses, whatever. I used to live in a place where a large fraction of the block heating came from a nearby power plant with additional gas-fired heating for when the waste heat wasn't enough. The same can be done with waste heat from data centres by using heat pumps. This can work in colder climates and in the cooler seasons in moderate climates.

mlyle

an hour ago

Waste heat from power plants isn’t always useful because it is low grade heat… but it is still much, much, much better than the 35-60C water you could get from a data center.

taraindara

2 hours ago

They could say anything and the visitors would have to believe it. A canyon tour guide tells me a story about why a rock formation is named the way it is. I have no clue if it’s true. But I enjoy it still.

buildbot

2 hours ago

Or build a park on top of the datacenter as a living roof?

Maybe even use the waste heat to help grow things in cold, dark climates?

It’s pretty different; but locally they covered a good chunk of a freeway with a very nice park to mollify the residents.

TrackerFF

2 hours ago

More than once I've read stories about small local counties selling huge plots of lands to companies promising to build data centers, only for those companies to flip the land instantly for double or triple the price.

There seems to be no shortage of desperate rural areas that are more than willing to sign ridiculous no-strings-attached deals with companies, in the hopes that they'll geta a couple of years with economic stimuli.

I can't blame them, I'm from a small place like that, and have seem some atrocious deals go through.

I think that if you're unscrupulous enough, there's a killing to be made by those type of grifts.

mothballed

2 hours ago

Well the city could just sell the land for 2-3x the price from the get go, but Karen and the people she elects wants to pretend like their zoning and red tape policies are saving the spotted owl or keeping their retirement nest egg valuable or whatever, so inevitably they red tape themselves into a corner at which point the grift just becomes too juicy and the greedy voters hand the opportunity to an even greedier and cunning bastard on a silver plate who will package it up and sell it to a fake "data center" and the developers get their way anyway.

Innittech

4 hours ago

Are deeds with conditions like that legal in that jurisdiction?

snickerbockers

2 hours ago

IDK about Texas but supposedly there's a cemetery in southern Virginia that legally becomes the property of some member of my extended family (possibly even me, not that I actually want it) if the county ever digs up the bodies because it was gifted to the county by a distant ancestor on the condition that it is only public property so long as it remains a cemetery.

ryukoposting

3 hours ago

IANAL but Texas law seems to allow a great deal of flexibility in deeds. One interesting quote I found:

> spelling out any additional agreements between the parties within the four corners of the deed itself can eliminate any doubt or ambiguity as to the content of those agreements.

The word "any" does some heavy lifting here, I'll admit.

> How can a grantor insure that the “as is” provision is unconditionally accepted by the grantee? The answer is to require that the grantee sign and acknowledge the deed

This quote is using as-is provisions since those are very common, but it seems like this doctrine applies to any condition in a deed.

Did a representative for the city ever sign the deed?

https://lonestarlandlaw.com/deeds-in-texas/

jeffbee

3 hours ago

Property law in America is insane from all sides. It's one of the few countries where you can just say something is yours, and someone else can disagree, and you get to argue about it forever. The only reason it is like that is we are still pretending all lands belong to the King of England. We never went back and fixed it. Even England itself fixed this, but we're too stupid.

ryukoposting

an hour ago

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

The land is owned by the city, that much is not in question.

If they signed the deed, they agreed to the condition that they would use it to build a park. If they didn't sign the deed, they never agreed to that condition.

lovich

an hour ago

I know they can’t be permanent because of the rule against perpetuities[1], but since this was in 99 I don’t think that applies.

IMO the non permanent nature of these sorts of grants is a good thing because if we don’t have limitations then we’ll eventually end up in a necrocacy where the long dead have more say over how property and the government is managed than the living.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities

SwellJoe

3 hours ago

Except when they violate civil rights (i.e. "whites only" deed restrictions are not enforceable, though they do exist), I think the answer would generally be yes. In some places in Texas, there is no zoning, only deed restrictions, Houston being the largest city where that's so, though that has evolved a bit and the city does have more say about land use than in the past.

Anyway, deed restrictions run with the land and are legally binding on subsequent owners in Texas. Buying land is agreeing to the contract implied by the deed restrictions. It's part of the due diligence of acquiring land in Texas.

Of course, governments can change the terms of that kind of thing in some cases. But, I suspect any honest reading of this situation would have required the city to go through a public hearing process so that the neighbors of the property were aware and had a voice in the decision, at the very least (but maybe even with that, their was a clear agreement to reserve the land for parkland, they shouldn't have taken the land if that wasn't an acceptable obligation). Property rights and contract law are pretty sacred in Texas. I lean YIMBY about a lot of things, but this gets my hackles up. It looks illegal on its face and shouldn't have made it through the cities lawyers going over this deal.

Edit: I should also mention that it is literally the neighbors right/obligation to sue in these cases. I've seen the argument that the neighbors of the land don't have standing. But, for deed restrictions, the neighbors are exactly the people with standing to sue over violations of deed restrictions. Cities in Texas are not obligated to enforce deed restrictions in most cases and most do not, Houston is one major exception to that rule.

FireBeyond

3 hours ago

> Except when they violate civil rights (i.e. "whites only" deed restrictions are not enforceable, though they do exist)

In my deeply blue city in my deeply blue city there were several HOAs with covenants around "non-whites" could only live in servants quarters on property, etc.

These clauses and covenants were non-enforceable, but when my city went after the HOAs to physically remove the clauses, they still encountered pockets of resistance, from "historical significance" to "what's the point, they're unenforceable" to "ugh, we'd have to hire attorneys to do that" to the point where the city had to announce sanctions ranging from fines up to investigating the possibility of forcible dissolution of the HOA.

Unenforceable or not, picture how welcome you'd feel as a POC reading that in the HOA covenants for a prospective home purchase.

Theodores

3 hours ago

Totally unrelated fun story.

Recently I learned that the park nearest where my parents lived was named after a Mr Park, hence the name of the park, 'Park Gardens'.

It contains a war memorial, albeit with Mr Park's name on it, albeit his son. WW1 for you.

Up until 1920 the park was pasture, then Mr Park bought it and it was landscaped very nicely. Since then it has been a well maintained park and actively used.

For housing it would make a very good earner for the council, due to its location. As a data centre though? Only lots of bribery and tear gas would get that approved.

Once upon a time the park was just a farmer's field, for pasture. Nowadays it is proudly owned by the town and more than just land.

As for the story that 'land' might just be land, but, in time, it could have been another wonderful 'Park Gardens'.

rvz

3 hours ago

New homes for AI agents.

spicyusername

2 hours ago

    $10 gift became $10M for city government, with $30M tax expected over next decade
I mean... pretty easy to see why...

I think if the city tried to communicate what that money is going to be used for, perhaps it'd be slightly more palatable. Or perhaps the pitchforks are already out, and it wouldn't.

vasco

an hour ago

It's the US so it's probably going to fund lawsuits against the police department.

mothballed

an hour ago

4d chess move is to sell it for the price they'll pay out in salary to the city lawyer, city engineer, favored contractors, and whoever else will show up as paid "expert witnesses" to the trial defending the sale. Whoever challenges it thinks they're costing the state, when in fact the trial is the whole grift and it doesn't even matter who wins.

type0

3 hours ago

Good deed for our robot overlords!

silexia

4 hours ago

Maybe this will fund a bigger better park with playgrounds and water features?

radley

3 hours ago

It will, just not in the U.S. Probably in private resorts in Albania, Saudi Arabia, etc.

readthenotes1

3 hours ago

Possibly, but only if the mayor and a couple of city council members own the new land

postflopclarity

2 hours ago

that costs a $200 monthly subscription to access, the profits going directly to grifter's pockets.