ai_critic
2 hours ago
> We have not decided on timing yet; it may be a while because there are things we want to do that are likely easier as a private company.
Presumably those things were harder as a charity/non-profit.
krona
2 hours ago
They need to financially engineer a good looking quarter beforehand.
Perhaps Larry Ellison can cut them a nice quid pro quo for a few months to make OpenAI look profitable (like the SpaceX/Anthropic deal), although that's probably unlikely given the debt Oracle is taking on to build it's infra.
JumpCrisscross
an hour ago
> like the SpaceX/Anthropic deal
I understand the scepticism around Google's deal with SpaceX, given the former holds a stake in the latter. But Anthropic buying SpaceX's compute doesn't have any related-party smell to it. That genuinely looks like SpaceX having cornered some valuable compute.
dualvariable
a minute ago
If you were to treat all the hyperscalars as one company with one 10-K then Anthropic buying compute from SpaceX/xAI is an internal bookkeeping transfer between two departments. It isn't the same as top-line revenue into the AI companies. It is still mostly just financing money that Anthropic raised being transferred to SpaceX.
krona
42 minutes ago
I'm actually talking about both. WSJ publishes Anthropic artificial profitability. Days later the reason for the profitability appears in SpaceX S-1; it's compute costs were artificially suppressed. Both are going public. It's a quid pro quo.
JumpCrisscross
39 minutes ago
> It's a quid pro quo
This is a reasonable accusation! It doesn't make a lot of sense–the Journal article is worth a hell of lot more than SpaceX referencing Anthropic's profitability. And we have zero evidence for it–one could raise this accusation against any compute partner Anthropic were to buy from.
LearnYouALisp
14 minutes ago
Reasonable or *un*reasonable?
JumpCrisscross
12 minutes ago
> Reasonable or unreasonable?
Reasonable. The influencers who just learned the term circular financing are mostly idiots. The ones pointing out the conflict of interest with Google are technically correct, but the conspiracy takes so many moving parts to yield such little gain that it would have to be particularly stupid in vision yet competent in execution to pull off.
But asking if there is a quid pro quo between Anthropic and SpaceX? Like, there could be. We have no evidence of it. The S-1 mention doesn't make any sense. But they're both going public and if I were a journalist I'd look into it.
The base case, that there is commercial value to xAI's datacenters that folks in the frontier-model space are competing to get access to, does seem to be one folks here are actively rejecting.
PunchyHamster
23 minutes ago
> That genuinely looks like SpaceX having cornered some valuable compute.
That's nice way to say "invested in AI that turned out to be flop nobody wants to pay for so they are selling spare capacity"
JumpCrisscross
15 minutes ago
> That's nice way to say "invested in AI that turned out to be flop nobody wants to pay for so they are selling spare capacity"
Both takes are true. xAI invested in capacity that was supposed to yield frontier-model-maker margins. Grok failed to generate enough interest. So now they're selling it.
That's absolutely a good business, in a way that's more certain than the frontier-model one. But it's also lower margin, which doesn't support the sort of valuation SpaceX is going for.
SecretDreams
an hour ago
Google owns 14% Anthropic and 6% xAI.
When Anthropic spends on xAI, it benefits Google. When google spends on xAI, it benefits Google. When xAI spends on Google, believe it or not, that benefits Google.
This is how a Ponzi -style circular financing scheme typically works.
JumpCrisscross
41 minutes ago
> When Anthropic spends on xAI, it benefits Google
Unless Google is directing these transactions, this is not a novel issue. (We see a similar effect with mutual funds owning most companies [1]. It's a weak effect.)
> This is how a Ponzi -style circular financing scheme typically works
No. It's potential conflicts of interest. It's not circular financing. Circular financing follows the cash. When NVIDIA invests in OpenAI so OpenAI can buy NVIDIA chips, that is circular financing.
[1] https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/the-rise-of-the-mutua...
SecretDreams
12 minutes ago
I think it depends on how you view the payout google will get when these companies IPO and give Google exist liquidity and a nicer looking balance sheet, if needed, either or.
JumpCrisscross
11 minutes ago
> it depends on how you view the payout google will get when these companies IPO and give Google exist liquidity and a nicer looking balance sheet
Google has a fantastic balance sheet with or without these investments. None of the recent deals have uniquely enabled an IPO. So they'd be playing to increase their stakes' value by a few points ahead of a dump, a dump that would almost certainly wipe out much more than they'd stand to gain by trying to make someone else a dollar so they get nickels and dimes out of it.
reactordev
7 minutes ago
You mean Oracle’s customers will face when their renewal bill includes infrastructure fees.
anukin
an hour ago
You are forgetting the google space x deal too
taneq
an hour ago
Just depreciate their server farms less this year to reduce losses. ;)
SilverElfin
41 minutes ago
Anthropic basically did that by getting two months of free compute from SpaceX. As I recall, this is how they were able to claim that they were profitable. But in reality, they are only profitable for those two months.
Eji1700
an hour ago
> They need to financially engineer a good looking quarter beforehand.
Eh given the quality of recent IPO proposals I think they can just say there's a couple zillion air molecules to turn into gold and be done with it.
tsunamifury
an hour ago
you mean the 50% of its company that was leveraged to purchase Paramount?
edoceo
2 hours ago
Like financial reporting and "transparency" that's required for public companies.
AtlasBarfed
24 minutes ago
Capital is going to dry up. All the AI companies are racing to get to market before the dumb money disappears