bbatha
18 hours ago
For all the potshots about AI, this update is huge even if you take away the AI features. They basically added lightroom to this release. There's some polish before you'd want to change your subscription, but its really tempting. It may be the best photo management/editor on linux. Yes, I know about darktable and rawtherapee and I stand by what I said. They also added a ton of motion graphics stuff which from the beta seem to be enough to undercut a lot of basic uses of after effects out. The later two features are in the free release as well!
BuildTheRobots
15 hours ago
> ...before you'd want to change your subscription...
For anyone not in the know, Resolve has an exceptionally capable and feature rich free version. A lot of the AI features (and >4k editing) are locked to the Studio licence which is a one-time payment, but works simultaneously on two computers (including different OS's) and allows upgrades across major versions.
I spent less than $300 on it a decade ago and my licence works fine on new v21 released this week. My least-regretted software purchase in 3 decades.
switchbak
15 hours ago
I was a lightroom user for almost 20 years, and their licensing ridiculousness was enough for me to: - change up my workflow, avoiding raw so I can use simpler editing processes - do way less editing - take way fewer photos
It sucks, but I just can't justify their insane pricing scheme. I've been looking for Linux-capable tools for a while, and Darktable / Rawtherapee are a long way from what I'm after. What you describe sounds like a dream.
Arainach
12 hours ago
This seems like an overreaction that punishes you more than Adobe. There are a number of other tools - until fairly recently Capture One offered perpetual licensing, for instance. Giving up RAW to spite Adobe is like being angry at Microsoft Office subscription pricing and saying you'll abandon word processors and just use a typewriter instead.
switchbak
11 hours ago
I don't have spite for Adobe, that seems like a projection on your part. But I can't justify the purchase, and have adapted the way I take photos as part of that.
It's more like finding the subscription for a CAD program too expensive, and swapping to something more primitive instead. If that offends you, I think you gotta have a long hard look in a mirror some time.
Arainach
11 hours ago
The point is that there are many options, at many different price points including free, that don't involve giving up 95% of the data your camera sensor provides and don't lock you into getting the exposure perfectly right the first time or else.
FastRawViewer, DxO, Affinity, Darktable, Capture One. Those are just the ones I personally have installed. There's also RawTherapee, a number of camera OEM-specific tools, and more.
fooblaster
8 hours ago
I looked to see if any of these tools support the hdr gain map export that Lightroom supports, and of course, absolutely none of them do. I can't use these.
vr46
10 hours ago
Capture One is a shitshow, however, and their new owner is actively trying to offload them, so a risk.
bigbuppo
7 hours ago
Capture One still offers a perpetual license for US$349... it's the option down at the bottom, of course. And they still do discounted upgrade pricing on that, too.
bzzzt
2 hours ago
They didn't do that last time I looked. You can only trade in your perpetual license for a discounted 'upgrade' to the subscription version.
qmr
12 hours ago
Absurd to let them affect you so. There are powerful alternatives many of them open source.
switchbak
11 hours ago
Absurd? What's with you folks and your strongly charged language?
Please recommend these "powerful alternatives", because I have explored the space and found nothing that replaces Lightroom in a way that I find acceptable. Please omit Darktable and Rawtherapee as I've already evaluated those.
larusso
5 hours ago
I think non native speakers may not have a good feeling how charged a word or phrase is.
In their defense you only spoke about dropping your raw workflow for something simpler not that you looked for a special HDR RAW support.
I know it’s Apple and may not what you look for but does Photomator tick these boxes?
Melatonic
11 hours ago
Lightroom mobile (only) is pretty cheap (still a subscription obviously) and does RAW. Depending on your workflow and device its not bad.
jwrallie
9 hours ago
That’s quite reasonable. Props for them for doing it.
Without updates included, buying a lifetime license nowadays feels more like a subscription which expires as soon as your OS upgrades instead. It also creates a lot of friction with different file formats when you try to collaborate. companies know how to exploit this to force you into subscriptions.
gmanley
14 hours ago
It's a bit convoluted to get to but you can also "rent" a license for $30 a month through Blackmagic Cloud. As with many, I'm not a fan of subscription licenses but it was valuable for me to use for a month to evaluate if the Studio features warranted the investment in the permanent license. Specifically some of the Fusion effects are Studio only.
agup792
an hour ago
I have become a huge fan of Davinci Resolve. Its free version carried me for a long time!
cjonas
18 hours ago
I made the switch from premier to resolve a few years ago and it feels like such a breath of fresh air. Being able to do the same with Lightroom would be amazing so can't wait to check this out. I've been using the free version and honestly never needed the pro features but I think I'll make the one time purchase today just to support a non-subscription based product of this caliber
altairprime
17 hours ago
Is the Lightroom stuff the same as was discussed on HN a couple months ago? If so, then, see also 296 comments about the new photo mode: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47760529
bbatha
15 hours ago
It is. That was for the beta
andrei_says_
15 hours ago
I have both the latest Lightroom and Davinci Resolve.
Recently I edited a few images requiring removing extra people from the frame and I was able to do all editing in Lightroom, in seconds.
As much as I dislike Adobe, Lightroom’s shortcuts and flow are now habits.
I will likely continue using both.
vjvjvjvjghv
11 hours ago
I have tried most RAW editors and as a total package Lightroom always came out on top for me. The AI masking is a huge improvement.
Daub
5 hours ago
I believe that DaVinci’s edge is the excellent masking and node based editing it offers (via the color page) and the insanely powerful hue tools. Neither Lightroom nor Potatoshop has effective hue tools - e.g. selectively change the hue or the saturation of a color except in the most primitive way.
Auracle
4 hours ago
Capture One, however, does.
jackofalltrades
17 hours ago
I was not aware that we could edit photos in DaVinci Resolve in Linux. Thank you for this info, I'll certainly give it a try!
dofm
16 hours ago
Output size is limited to 4K in the free version, I think. Which is not nothing (8MP or something, good for a reasonably large print) but it might make you question how much editing belongs inside Resolve.
Melatonic
11 hours ago
Seems odd to limit photo output also to "4K" resolution. Although I suppose if they did not someone could probably do workarounds like outputting an EXR sequence of an edited video file.
Hobadee
17 hours ago
You couldn't until this release. :-P
sbarre
16 hours ago
I haven't had a chance to look at the non-beta version but in the 21 Beta, the Photo page didn't support Lumix or Olympus raw formats, and I own two cameras: a Lumix and an Olympus. :-(
I assumed they would add them later, I hope I'm right!
edit: nope, still only supports Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Sony and iPhone ProRAW.
omnimus
16 hours ago
They mentioned in notes the support will come. They support lumix videos.
sbarre
13 hours ago
Oh I missed that, thank you! That's good to know..
Yeah I've used previous Studio versions to edit videos from my camera without any trouble. I'm just excited to finally ditch my Adobe subscription ASAP. :-)
thewebguyd
16 hours ago
I run a photography biz on the side, and this is huge tbh.
I already used Davinci to make a custom LUT, blended it with the Adobe camera standard profile to use in lightroom as a base for all my edits as Davinci's color tools are much better, and doing it this way just lets you get tones that you couldn't other wise get with Lighroom/ACR alone. This basically removes the need to have lightroom in there as a finishing step.
The only downside is by now I've got a really solid ImagenAI profile based on the 30k photos I've fed it over time, and that obviously relies on a lightroom catalog, and is also capable of applying my LUT since I've made it a slider in LR. I hate adobe, but I'm not sure I could go back to not using Imagen as now I can turn around a full wedding gallery in about 2 days.
Daub
5 hours ago
Agreed that the photo editing features are killer. AFAIK no other photo editing app allows the user to selectively desaturate a hue and its ability to adjust scoring to restricted lightness range is world class.
larusso
5 hours ago
Lightroom maps support color range and luminance range. Can you explain what the difference is?
storus
16 hours ago
Can you run batch processing with the same settings over a large sequence of images like in Lightroom as well? And/or make slight changes to some parameters at certain points of time like correcting light intensity during sunsets the transitions smooths when your hardware made a step change when capturing it?
bbatha
15 hours ago
You can. Davinci is more powerful for this too because you can copy the parts of the node tree. So you can have a base edit for exposure, white balance etc then apply your look as a copy paste on top of the clean part. In Lightroom and most photocentric workflows you get one prebaked pipeline.
embedding-shape
16 hours ago
I haven't tried these new image features at all, nor do I know how well exposed it is in the scripting API in the new version, but Resolve does have a Scripting API I've used for batch processing (of videos) in the past, I'm guessing this gist will soon be updated for version 21 then you can take a peek there: https://gist.github.com/X-Raym/2f2bf453fc481b9cca624d7ca0e19...
mistic92
15 hours ago
Unfortunately they are far from Lightroom, maybe next year they'll be closer. I really would like to ditch Lightroom but there is no alternative
qmr
12 hours ago
Ridiculous. Darktable and rawtherapee off the top of my head. There are many others.
maxgashkov
9 hours ago
I tried Darktable and I don't doubt it's a powerful RAW editing software but it feels like to be effective with it you need to care about the software more than you do about photography. With Lightroom/Capture One etc. it's the opposite. Darktable is just too 'out there'
vjvjvjvjghv
11 hours ago
I tried to like Darktable but even after more than a year I couldn’t get the hang of it. It almost killed the hobby for me. Lightroom just works for me.
patrakov
9 hours ago
I suggest that you try https://artraweditor.github.io/ as an alternative.
t0bia_s
10 hours ago
None of those have reliable selective tool. Unpractical to use professionally.
patrakov
9 hours ago
Darktable 5.6 will have AI masks.
Anyway, I tried them, and found that, after you master the "a few rough brush strokes + adjust feathering and mask opacity until it snaps" and "overzealous brush + parametric mask" techniques taught in any Darktable course, for wildlife photo editing, AI doesn't bring much. And yes, this does require a course to break the "perfect mask is required" mindset.
Yes, Lightroom courses will brainwash you that AI "select subject, select sky, select object" workflow is the only modern way to do selective editing, but this is the Lightroom workflow. For Lightroom, it is a natural workflow, because it is, in Lightroom, the best strategy that can create a mask that aligns well with the object edges - until it doesn't. Other editors (such as ART and Darktable) have other idiomatic workflows for masking, and they work, because they have other tools than Lightroom for snapping the mask or refining it.
Bird feathers spread out on the tips of their wings are one particularly bad example where AI struggles, but non-AI tools don't.
t0bia_s
3 hours ago
Yet, LR is industrial standard no matter how enthusiastic developers of free software try. I wish that Adobe have proper competition, working on linux. There isn't.
patrakov
3 hours ago
I have a different problem with Lightroom being an industrial standard. If you avoid Lightroom, you cannot find a photography teacher.
You can find a Darktable teacher, and I did. He is a professional photographer, but I disagree with that particular teacher's style in photography - especially the rejection of strong edits even if they do work as creative reinterpretations of the scene.
You can find a photography teacher with good taste in composition, with recognition that both ultra-constrained and creative edits have their place (and I did find such a teacher), but that teacher will inevitably use Lightroom. That teacher recognizes what needs to be edited, recognizes that Darktable has the right to exist, but will explain the needed changes using Lightroom tool names.
It's now your job to translate - and, importantly, translate the visual effect achieved, not the slider name. This requires seeing the intended effect. This requires doing it in Lightroom first and then trying to make Darktable output look the same.
For example, the teacher asked for a high-key edit and told me to raise the whites. In Lightroom, this keeps contrast high near the top of the tonal range, right until it abruptly becomes zero because of clipping. That "high contrast followed by clipping" behavior is exactly what the requested high-key edit needed.
But your teacher will never describe it in those contrast-related terms. Before translating the instruction into Darktable, you first have to discover the visual pattern yourself that the Lightroom slider is producing.
And the correct translation, if you use the "sigmoid" tonemapper, is the "target white" control, which the official documentation marks as "don’t touch". You need to set it to 130% via right-clicking to override the soft limit of 100%. Very non-obvious, not mentioned in the Darktable course that I went through, but the photography teacher then accepted the edit.
In summary, the requirement to learn Lightroom in advance just to understand the photography teacher is the real trap here.
gglanzani
16 hours ago
Laat time I checked, deleting an image on DaVinci didn’t delete on disk. That’s something I’m really missing
omnimus
16 hours ago
It might be best editor on linux but running it on linux is not easy. You basically need pick correct hardware pick right distro. It might be pretty easy on the oficial rocky linux but on other distros good luck. Also no AMD support.
I am pretty experienced linux user and i would have to buy new NVIDIA card and pray things work out.
Sadly i found out it will be much cheaper to buy refurb mac mini. So now i have dedicated machine for editing video.
well_ackshually
17 hours ago
Also, nobody would have complained about "content aware face fill", "AI" image edition tools have been standard for ten years in Photoshop
embedding-shape
17 hours ago
I remember CS2 making big news with the "healing brush", that's like 20 years ago or something like that.
dofm
16 hours ago
That wasn’t an AI tool at all, though. Neither is pre-2023 content-aware fill, AFAIK.
They are both PatchMatch (well the healing brush certainly is), which is a heroic bit of code. Entirely deterministic statistical algorithm. Not AI by really any definition (including back then)
nandomrumber
16 hours ago
Probably not you, but on this very forum there are plenty who will argue that LLMs / AI are entirely deterministic and that given enough time, a chisel, and sufficient clay tablets, any AI output can be calculated by hand.
I don’t know enough about anything to determine which opinion is correct.
Is AI output not just matrix multiplication and a random seed?
coldtea
9 hours ago
>Probably not you, but on this very forum there are plenty who will argue that LLMs / AI are entirely deterministic and that given enough time, a chisel, and sufficient clay tablets, any AI output can be calculated by hand.
Any particular AI output is deterministic (and can be calculated by hand even, if you're immortal).
But it's not deterministic in the sense that (a) it's a black box on the Cloud, (b) repeated AI prompts don't give the same results.
nandomrumber
8 hours ago
Isn’t your (b) only because of the addition of a random seed?
aesthesia
7 hours ago
LLM inference can be implemented in a way where nondeterminism depends only on the random seed, but that's not common. It ends up being more efficient/easier to implement kernels whose exact results depend on how many other prompts are being processed in parallel. See https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/defeating-nondeterminism-in... for a pretty extensive exploration.
dofm
16 hours ago
I don't disagree necessarily on the fundamentals; I am slowly catching up on what LLMs do and don't do but that sounds right to me.
But what I would observe is that the healing brush does not have a random seed. It will always do the same thing if applied at the same pixel.
(I am actually less sure if content-aware fill randomises; I always got the impression it did not)
This makes it both incredibly powerful and occasionally frustrating.
Because on the one hand, you can learn to apply your judgement to precisely control what it will do, and change the radius or position if you learn it is likely to fail, which becomes instinctive. I absolutely love using it to fix scratches in film scans; it's a quick, precise, controllable tool that can be used in a way that is amazingly convincing, and it ends up quite a "zen gardening" thing as a result. It'll sell you on the cheapest wacom pen once you know how efficient it can be.
On the other hand there are situations where it simply cannot work the way you want because it will always find a pattern you don't want it to.
(You can sometimes use the clone brush tool first, to manually break up the pattern that patchmatch will find)
embedding-shape
16 hours ago
> But what I would observe is that the healing brush does not have a random seed. It will always do the same thing if applied at the same pixel.
Given a model architecture that supports it, greedy decoding + the same inputs + prompts, that's true for most LLMs today too, I don't think people consider them less/more AI because of that.
embedding-shape
16 hours ago
In my mind, it's as much "AI" as "AI Slate ID" introduced in this release, which I guess was kind of the point of what GP said.
Forgeties79
16 hours ago
>They also added a ton of motion graphics stuff which from the beta seem to be enough to undercut a lot of basic uses of after effects out.
I moved my team to Resolve about 2.5 years ago and I can say with absolute confidence Fusion > AE. Resolve Studio is all you need, period. Lightroom is clearly better right now than their Photo editor but like all their other offerings (ehhh except fairlight lol still mediocre), it's only a matter of time
httpsterio
16 hours ago
This has not been my experience. I have frequent crashes with Fusion that seem to be related to specific nodes. Checking my computers usage it doesn't seem like I'm running out of juice either.
When it works, it's really nice and I'm sold on the node based workflows, but it's not all entirely roses.
Resolve itself is excellent, Fairlight works just Ok and is still heaps better than Audition ever was. But Fusion I feel like hasn't seen enough love in the past few years.
The whole Reactor setup for installing Fuses feels really broken and for the free users they disabled those entirely in version 19.1.
Forgeties79
15 hours ago
That’s interesting, our experience with fusion has been fantastic. But maybe you’re doing certain kind of work or more advanced work than we are
dheera
16 hours ago
Is there any RAW processing software for Linux that works for DJI drone photos?
I have a bunch of photos from a Mini 3 Pro and Mini 4 Pro -- 4 years' worth -- that I haven't published because I don't have a way to process them.
No tools on Linux (RawTherapee, Darktable, RapidRAW) render their colors correctly no matter how you mess with the sliders, and all of the Github issue pages are dismissive of the problem. There is something fundamentally wrong about how Linux RAW libraries are reading DJI photos.
Lightroom on a Mac tested on another computer renders them all correctly, but I don't own a Mac nor Lightroom.
__mharrison__
16 hours ago
Resolve runs on Linux. What am I missing?
bbatha
15 hours ago
Resolve unfortunately only supports a few brands of raw. Om systems is not supported for instance.
echelon
17 hours ago
> For all the potshots about AI,
Most video is going to be AI in the near future. They see the writing on the wall. Their camera business line is going to sharply decline.
swatcoder
17 hours ago
> Most video is going to be AI in the near future
That's like saying all fine art would be photography, all film would be CGI, or all music would be synthesized electronica.
That's not how aesthetics seem to work. Artists will make more or less good use of generative AI in their work, and it will probably seep into most media in some way or another, effecting them, but arts mostly don't get replaced and AI doesn't really offer an exception to that history.
criddell
16 hours ago
> That's like saying all fine art would be photography
Or is it like saying most portraits will be photographs rather than paintings? There are still a lot of portraits painted (maybe even as many as the pre-camera days), but by raw numbers most portraits are created by photographers.
darkwater
17 hours ago
There will also be a longer or shorter period of time in which such technology will be abused by artists (because it's new) and at some point it will stabilize.
echelon
14 hours ago
It's saying most art will be created with AI.
Like saying most pictures will be made with digital cameras.
Like saying most music will be captured and edited digitally.
You guys have an anti-AI bug and it's eating you alive and blinding you to the future that is unfolding. It's toxic and you're all 100% wrong. Your hate makes it impossible to see all of the improvements.
I've been a filmmaker for decades. This tech is the most amazing thing I've ever witnessed. And it's just getting started.
Stop being old men yelling at clouds. If you don't like it, you can continue doing things the way you're used to.
vile_wretch
14 hours ago
It isn't like saying any of those things because they are referring to recording media and not to a pipe dream invented by tech bros to attract investors so that their deeply-in-the-red company can stay afloat a little while longer. AI can't create anything.
jiggawatts
12 hours ago
> AI can’t create anything
Individuals are now making eight-minute movies with AI that are definitely wandering across the line of “watchable” into “entertaining”:
CamperBob2
14 hours ago
It isn't like saying any of those things because they are referring to recording media and not to a pipe dream invented by tech bros to attract investors so that their deeply-in-the-red company can stay afloat a little while longer. AI can't create anything.
How do you know you aren't arguing with one now?
coldtea
8 hours ago
>You guys have an anti-AI bug and it's eating you alive and blinding you to the future that is unfolding
For the moment what is unfolding is a dystopia shoved down most people's throats, whether they want it or not.
And the bug is obviously the "AI bug", a foreign body recently introduced. The "bug" can't be our default previous state (no AI).
>I've been a filmmaker for decades. This tech is the most amazing thing I've ever witnessed. And it's just getting started
Hopefully it will be over soon.
>Stop being old men yelling at clouds
You know that the leading AI providers and experts in the field often discuss how AI can/might/surely will wipe us off? Not some random guys with signs in some street corner. The main people behind it.
Now, I don't believe it's so, at least not for the reasons mentioned, like the singularity. But there are very dark results from AI in society and in many domains.
But hey, we can make pretty uncanny valley (for now) videos and special effects! No need to involve or employ humans in our art either. And the human art can be drowned in a sea of AI crap, so noone will really see our AI art either. Such amazing tech /s
echoangle
17 hours ago
Aren’t the cameras they are making aimed at professional productions? Those are probably going to replaced last, the first thing will be (or are) TikTok clips shot on smartphones.
I don’t think they’ll see a decline in cinema camera sales due to AI soon.
echelon
11 hours ago
> I don’t think they’ll see a decline in cinema camera sales due to AI soon.
Happy to bet on this!
Expensive glass and all of the processes around it takes more time, money, and resources than Seedance 2.0. And these models are only a few years old at this point.
echoangle
11 hours ago
> Expensive glass and all of the processes around it takes more time, money, and resources than Seedance 2.0.
Sure, but the results will also seem better to a cinematographer.
When do you expect the first movie with fully 3D-generated imagery (which would mean that a camera was actually replaced by AI) will be released?
I can imagine it will happen at some point, but I don't see it soon.
Forgeties79
16 hours ago
Yeah they don't make a single consumer grade product. Prosumer at its lowest, and even then they're way too technical for the uninitiated. No one is picking up a BMPCC and just shooting/posting online.
13hunteo
17 hours ago
Why do you believe this? Are you expecting all media to become fully AI - sports, TV, movies, youtube?
add-sub-mul-div
17 hours ago
They've been spamming slop project submissions the last few months. But then again, who isn't?
AngryData
17 hours ago
I doubt it because I wouldn't waste my time watching it and I can't imagine all that many people today that don't already watch AI videos are going to suddenly change their mind and decide they like AI produced Hallmark movies.
t0bia_s
10 hours ago
For commercial use maybe. Not for documentary or personal use.
Actually what ruins camera businesses are smartphones, not AI.
CyberDildonics
17 hours ago
"AI makes real world obsolete." I think that's enough hacker news for today.
Sohcahtoa82
17 hours ago
No way.
Even the frontier models running on insanely powerful hardware could only generate 15 second clips in low resolutions.
And yeah, I saw some demos from Seedance 2.0, and they were awful. It's ridiculous how much people on Xitter were like "You can't even tell it's AI!" and I was like "It's trivial to tell it's AI" and could easily pick out all the markers. An individual screenshot could look good, but every time the camera angle changed, there would be a glaring inconsistency.
You people are either blind, delusional, or outright insane. AI might be used for a quick clip, or used to enhance something recorded by a camera, but "most video" is definitely wrong.
VladVladikoff
17 hours ago
God I hope not. That’s depressing.
Geezus_42
17 hours ago
Even more reason to check out.
Forgeties79
16 hours ago
So live A/V is just dead now? Movies are dead? I really don't get where this take is coming from.
echelon
11 hours ago
> So live A/V is just dead now?
I'm an indie filmmaker and I do community theater. We use gaussian splats for 3D filmmaking, and we're already using AI for background plates and VFX shots.
Where this is going - your local community theater will be able to have Lord of the Rings / Gollum-style facial/body rigs that eventually work in real time, and actors will markerless mocap into super high fidelity fantasy and science fiction scenes.
> Movies are dead? I really don't get where this take is coming from.
Movies will never be more real and more personal. The folks at A24 are going to have Marvel powers with way better stories.
Stop being so bearish. These are tools, and creative people will abuse the hell out of them to do wildly cool things.
Forgeties79
3 hours ago
I’m not bearish. I’m incredulous at their statements and agree with you. Take a second look at it.
Good luck on your journey as a filmmaker (truly not being sarcastic), I’ve been in the industry for 15 years so we are colleagues here who can have a dialogue.
BoredPositron
17 hours ago
You are only looking at your own consumption at the moment. There are a lot of problems that still need to be fixed especially with rope artifacting. The 4k most models taunt isn't equivalent to a real 4k image or video as well at the moment you need a quality factor of two to get the equivalent result of a shot image or video. Resolution does not indicate quality.