FreeBSD Foundation executive director tries daily driving FreeBSD on laptop

87 pointsposted 11 hours ago
by Bender
(phoronix.com)

65 Comments

jcoder

10 hours ago

I'll never understand why people think this looks human:

  What Made This Time Different
  This time, I didn't just install FreeBSD.
  I created a system for learning and success.

  Clear goal: FreeBSD as my daily driver
  Daily habit: 10 minutes minimum
  Accountability: post the journey on Linkedin
Gee, why not let the agent try FreeBSD for you and do the posting directly

866-RON-0-FEZ

10 hours ago

> This time, I didn't just install FreeBSD

Well, rms has never installed Linux so that's a step forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umQL37AC_YM

tosti

10 hours ago

Linux isn't his thing. But he also didn't install GNU.

866-RON-0-FEZ

10 hours ago

It's a funny video but his stance is quite principled, as he refuses to use any non-free software even if it's horribly inconvenient. Which is the exact opposite of what we have here.

tosti

8 hours ago

That's because if you trade freedom for convenience, you'll end up having neither.

dogcow

10 hours ago

As a long time FreeBSD user, the Foundation has really failed to impress me in recent years. I lost faith in them back in 2018 during the "code of conduct" fiasco, when they wasted Foundation funds on a consultant for a code of conduct that nobody really asked for. Haven't donated since -- instead I redirected my donations to the OpenBSD project, which while less practical in many scenarios, is a technically superior product in my eyes.

That said, I am glad to see them focusing their efforts on something useful, like laptop compatibility. Regardless, this is a really dumb post. 10 minutes a day is not "daily driving."

daft_pink

an hour ago

Can Linux get the Mac level of close the shell and the battery doesn’t deplete on a laptop if you order a framework?

budman1

a few seconds ago

I am ashamed to say that my mind could not understand these 'mac behaviors'. in my mind, closing the shell does not mean 'shut down the machine (or make it standby). maybe i have a job running. maybe i am ssh'ed into it. likewise, when it is opened up, why does it un-standby or turn on?

very confusing that the computer thinks it knows what i want; when i can push the power button to turn it on, or /sbin/shutdown -h now when i want it off.

866-RON-0-FEZ

10 hours ago

Oh my god this lady should be running a pet shop. She's had this role since 2005 and is only now dogfooding the software for 10 minutes a day? Stunning and brave.

Imagine Linus Torvalds or Theo from OpenBSD using Windows out of convenience. Unthinkable.

ndiddy

9 hours ago

There was a bit of a controversy a few years ago when people realized that the head of the Linux Foundation was using Mac OS to give a presentation at a conference (especially ironic considering the presentation was about using Linux on the desktop). If the FreeBSD Foundation is similar to the Linux Foundation (which seems to be the case from looking at their site), it's mainly intended as a vehicle so large companies can fund aspects of the system they want developed rather than an ideologically driven organization like the FSF. From that perspective, an executive actually trying to run FreeBSD is a nice thing to see. It's been a running joke for years that when you look at a FreeBSD conference you'll see all the developers running it in a VM on their MacBooks, so if they're treating bare metal as more of a priority I think it's a positive development.

stefan_

8 hours ago

If only the Linux Foundation was primarily funding development of Linux, it's hard to describe what it is they are doing exactly, but it's a bit like a social club for Middle Managers and other insignificant people, building ecosystems^TM, connections and synergies^TM, and of course the Linux brand. Starting initiatives and such.

Gaze upon a premier Linux Foundation project:

https://www.canton.network/global-synchronizer

thayne

10 hours ago

It's possible she used it on a server. But yeah...

866-RON-0-FEZ

10 hours ago

I knew people running FreeBSD on the desktop back in 2003. If it was good enough for them then... Could they not scrounge up enough cash for a Thinkpad in the last 20 years?

type0

10 hours ago

I tried FreeBSD on tower pc in 2003, it's not that it was completely unusable it but compared to Linux it was like night and day. Now it's still not perfect, more like midnight and evening.

TallGuyShort

9 hours ago

I used FreeBSD on a laptop 2008-2010 and it was usable, other than needing a USB Wifi adapter. Definitely not as usable as Linux, but I was able to do 18 credit hours per semester. Quite a lot more than 10 minutes a day.

Notably, you and I aren't FreeBSD Foundation Executive Directors.

Milpotel

7 hours ago

I ran it on my desktop at that time and only had to switch to Linux because FreeBSD 5.0 wasn't compatible with my machine anymore.

mvanbaak

9 hours ago

this. I have been running FreeBSD for over a decade, but not on my laptop.

phendrenad2

10 hours ago

Really setting the bar low there aintcha? If Torvald's Linux use is the benchmark then we're doomed. Aren't there ample quotes from him by now where he basically says he only cares about coding and doesn't have strong opinions about GUIs? Is Theo any better in that aspect?

gus_massa

9 hours ago

IIRC, he cares about not breaking userspace, because he is runing the bleeding edge in his main computer and any bacward incompatible change breaks linusspace.

stackghost

10 hours ago

Not to interrupt the predictable HN hates women train but

>she noted in the past every time she tried running FreeBSD on laptops [...]

It's very explicit that she has in fact tried this in the past. She's not some diversity hire, either. She's a former embedded firmware developer at IBM, IIRC.

Have you ever tried running FreeBSD on a laptop? I have. Unless you're using it plugged in at all times and never take it anywhere it has not historically been a very pleasant experience, hence this recent push to bring it into parity with Linux from the 2010s.

grosswait

9 hours ago

I think you’re the one focusing on gender.

mbreese

10 hours ago

Do you still need to run a Linux VM to get WiFi working? The last time I tried FreeBSD on a laptop, that was a thing. It’s just never been all that focused on laptop/mobile use. I’ve used it as a desktop (okay) and as a server (wonderful). But laptop/daily driver use has just never been a focus. Especially if you are running on a battery or wifi - it’s certainly usable as a desktop/workstation with Ethernet.

I don’t entirely fault FreeBSD for this either - it’s not where they see their niche. So, when you have comparatively limited engineering resources, they shouldn’t be wasting them on areas where their users don’t need them. I personally think that dogfooding your own OS makes for a better OS, but there are already decent laptop OS options.

Focusing on server deployments that don’t need much in terms of graphics or consumer wifi chip support isn’t that big of deal to me.

SoftTalker

8 hours ago

BSDs handle WiFi fine as long as it's a supported device. Generally meaning there's a BSD-compatible licensed open-source driver for it.

Battery life hasn't been the best story but at present it's pretty good. Same with Linux on that front, maybe still lagging a bit.

If you're going to be running a BSD on a laptop, do some research first and buy one that's well supported. Thinkpads are generally a good choice AFAIK, but you need to look more deeply than a brand or manufacturer.

866-RON-0-FEZ

9 hours ago

> when you have comparatively limited engineering resources, they shouldn’t be wasting them on areas where their users don’t need them

Or they could support one laptop well, and the CEO uses that and not a sexy MacBook because it looks cool.

866-RON-0-FEZ

10 hours ago

> Not to interrupt the predictable HN hates women train but

Oh rubbish.

When you're the head of something, you're paid to use their products if not for anything but image purposes.

Do you think the head of GM drives around in a Mustang?

cperciva

9 hours ago

the head of something

Note that "FreeBSD Foundation" != "FreeBSD Project".

Obviously they're connected, but the FreeBSD Foundation supports the FreeBSD Project; they don't direct it. Governance of the FreeBSD Project vests in the FreeBSD core team, which is elected by FreeBSD developers; and as a FreeBSD developer I'm far more concerned with what OS members of the core team run than I am with what OS members of the Foundation run.

28304283409234

8 hours ago

Why? Where is this written? Which law is this? Also: should they use 'their products' on every single piece of hardware they own?

This is like that old argument that you can't wear leather belts "if you really are a vegetarian". Ugh.

__s

9 hours ago

CEO of Ford drives around in a Xiaomi SU7

jen20

8 hours ago

The CEO of Ford has been driving a Chinese EV for some time now. Knowing what the competition are doing is pretty critical.

stackghost

10 hours ago

>Oh rubbish.

Nah, it's not rubbish. The comments on just about any article featuring a woman in a tech leadership position are always the same here.

>When you're the head of something, you're paid to use their products if not for anything but image purposes.

Again you conveniently leave out the "on a laptop" qualifier.

10 minutes a day is about all I could tolerate of BSD on a laptop too.

866-RON-0-FEZ

9 hours ago

> Again you conveniently leave out the "on a laptop" qualifier.

If your hangup really is "Unless you're using it plugged in at all times" well, she is the Executive Director.

I'm sure they can pay an intern to follow her around at all times with a really long extension cord.

stackghost

9 hours ago

No I'm saying that concluding that she doesn't use FreeBSD simply because she doesn't use it on a laptop, especially considering how poor the laptop experience is, is stupid.

I have three machines in my basement running freeBSD right now, and if I was the director of the foundation I wouldn't daily drive it on a laptop either.

WhyNotHugo

7 hours ago

> FreeBSD Foundation's Executive Director has been trying to daily drive FreeBSD on laptops

This sounds like a joke. Imagine if Bill gates said "he's going to try and daily drive Windows", or if Steve Jobs said "he's going to try and daily drive an iPhone".

It seems crazy to me that a foundation behind an OS has executives who don't even use that OS.

bombcar

10 hours ago

Ten minutes a day is a daily driver? Short commute!

cryo32

10 hours ago

I am wondering if she only does 10 minutes of work a day :)

neko_ranger

10 hours ago

how is this not the most embarrassing thing ever?

AshamedCaptain

9 hours ago

Ironically, drm-612-kmod has been pushed to ports a couple days ago (not quarterly yet) so you can now start using FreeBSD with really recent GPUs now from ... let's see ... 2024.

This still makes it like the 3rd operating system overall when it comes to hardware support.

baq

8 hours ago

That’s plenty good, it isn’t like anyone has the money to buy a new GPU

dnautics

10 hours ago

With ~zero unix experience (I was moving from BeOS), I ran FreeBSD full time as a chemistry grad student from 2003-2009, on a Dell XPS, and mostly had no problems. What's changed?

(I'm interested in leaving linux and going to FreeBSD)

cryo32

10 hours ago

Well the problem is not a lot. It's pretty much like being in 2009 still. Which is fine if you didn't adopt a huge amount of technology changes since.

I mean I quite like the todo list that comes with my phone and computer and syncs flawlessly between the two of them. Ships with none of that shit.

netrap

8 hours ago

FreeBSD does not have a desktop installer yet.. the powerpoint alludes to that being a coming feature though.. I think people here should chill out about her not using FreeBSD as the daily driver.. I use FreeBSD daily in my work, but no, I don't on desktop...

jruohonen

9 hours ago

Does anyone know about power consumption? That's where Linux shines for laptops (probably nowadays better than Windows).

(I have some old laptops, and as someone posted the other day the interesting thing about someone having LLM'ed a 802.11 driver, I'd might give it a go.)

grigio

6 hours ago

I understand the rants, but my main complain about freebsd today for me is the poor wifi firmware support (compared to Linux)

ksec

9 hours ago

I mean I am happy if they kept FreeBSD to be Server focused. I have been using a Mac / Windows and deploying on Linux and FreeBSD, i don't see why both the consumer and the server / enterprise has to have the same OS stack all the time.

ssl-3

8 hours ago

I don't see why the operating systems have to be different.

One should be able to run a GUI on a "server," if they choose to do so. It's not arduous; here in 2026, servers are allowed to have GPUs. It's really OK. (My mom says we're even allowed to run LLMs on the FreeBSD server-box in her basement.)

One should be able to run a stodgy, reliable database on a "desktop," if they choose to do so. That may be best with a good filesystem, redundant storage, and some ECC RAM. But it's good for desktop systems to have these things. (And ZFS is a built-in, first-class filesystem on FreeBSD.)

I mean... It's not like we're talking about the difference between an IBM Multiprise 2000 and an SGI Octane here. Those days are over. We're mostly just using PCs for all roles these days.

These PCs run the same code in the same ways, whether packaged and sold as "server" or "desktop" units. The CPU parts are frequently even cut from the same literal cloth: A "desktop" Ryzen CCD and a "server" Epyc CCD are born on the same wafer before being packaged up differently.

The line betwixt server hardware and desktop hardware is presently murkier and less-defined than it ever has been before. Why should the operating system be different?

em-bee

7 hours ago

on a server a GUI is optional. on a desktop/laptop a GUI is mandatory. supporting a GUI is more work. so if you are server focused, then why bother? making that effort only makes sense when you actually do want to also support desktops. and of course you can use a desktop device as a server. all my home servers so far have been desktop devices. but they never had a GUI because i had no use for it.

binary132

7 hours ago

The writing is so on the nose it makes me wonder if Michael is mocking her.

polynomial

9 hours ago

This is horrifying on so many levels even if you don't already know how the story ends.

DeathArrow

9 hours ago

Why is she leading the FreeBSD foundation? Can't they find someone etter suited and more technically inclined?

stackghost

3 minutes ago

She's a former embedded firmware engineer, how much more technically inclined would you like her to be?

phyzix5761

9 hours ago

What a joke. When the Executive Director of your Foundation doesn't even use your product its a red flag.

Danox

4 hours ago

What is more of a joke is the fact that I remember a time when there were multiple computer companies that designed hardware and software (OS) and actually sold those items to the public 1980s early-late 1990’s all those companies are gone IBM (is but a shadow of its former self), Sun, Digital, Atari, Commodore Amiga, Next, Acorn, and SGI etc… At the time Next and SGI were completely unaffordable dreams when I was young.

For the most part, no one has really picked up the gauntlet since aside from Apple on the desktop as a vertical computer company.

Of course, pieces of the tech still live on notably from Next computers, Acorn (ARM) and SGI.

I wish someone would use Linux as part of being a new vertical computer company OS and hardware on the desktop. Why? Baffling.

baq

8 hours ago

Would you ridicule Eddy Cue and Jeff Robin (heads of iCloud, kinda) for not running iCloud on macOS?

jen20

8 hours ago

… what a ludicrous take.

If FreeBSD was a desktop OS this might be reasonable, but it’s simply not. This is akin to complaining that the executive director of the Linux Foundation (I assume) does not run Kubernetes on their toaster oven.

lowbloodsugar

9 hours ago

Tried “a daily driver for at least 10 minutes a day”.

lol. That’s not the definition of a daily driver. Thats something I really don’t want to do, like pushups.

calvinmorrison

10 hours ago

whats more embarassing is the shit tier presentation slop. "This time I didnt just install FreeBSD. I create a system for learning and success".

Anyone who wrote this has no business with FreeBSD or open source.

dburkland

10 hours ago

As soon as I saw the title I immediately knew what the comment section would look like (and rightfully so).