Show HN: Is Hormuz open yet?

165 pointsposted 2 hours ago
by anonfunction

48 Comments

Jeremy1026

37 minutes ago

The data being ~4 days delayed does kind of make this less useful. It is a nice concept and cool to see the historical data though. Just think the domain and the large "NO" doesn't really fit with the lack of current data.

anonfunction

31 minutes ago

Totally agree, I put some text and tried to make it clear. My first intention was to find some live ship tracking API and see how many ships cross the strait, but they were all hundreds of dollars a month, and behind enterprise contact forms.

Jeremy1026

14 minutes ago

I've done some small scale ship tracking in the past, and yeah, anything beyond finding a specific ship while it is near the shore is stupid expensive.

elSidCampeador

5 minutes ago

I believe NASA / EU provide daily satellite imagery for free (which is of relatively high quality too). I wonder if there's a way to take that data, and training some kind of image recognition model that figures out "movement" or something to the same end? Would be cool to see

bl4ckneon

an hour ago

Very cool! I love one off intresting sites like this. Thanks for building it and talking a little bit about where the data comes from etc.

On the note of Ai agent getting the data for you, could you not just build a chrome extention that intercepts/read the api response and then uploads it to whatever ingest endpoint you have? You could probably just call their api end points they use on the page as well but not sure what protections they have so might be a bit tricky. A custom chrome extention could do it though if they have protections.

anonfunction

an hour ago

Their APIs are protected by cloudflare, I didn't want to circumvent that. Also I dont really want to make a chrome extension or have a browster tab open, if that's what you meant? I've already made a cron style agent framework[1] so that's what I'd probably reach for since they can actually open the browser and inspect the network traffic to grab the json.

1. https://botctl.dev/

Klonoar

an hour ago

How is doing it via agent not circumventing it?

anonfunction

an hour ago

I think I was just spit-balling what would be possible, rather than what I intend to do. As mentioned elsewhere I'm hoping to get an API key from one the data providers, I even reached out to the api behind marinetraffic.com, https://www.kpler.com/product/maritime/data-services to see if they would sponsor the project.

This was just something I built on a whim, but I appreciate your comment and took it to heart!

alerter

an hour ago

I work for a consultancy that does vessel tracking as one of its main products, and yeah it's expensive! afaik they have remote teams with sensors at key points and a bunch of people using AI/software to manage things like GPS spoofing. So it's all pretty guarded proprietary stuff.

Great bit of topical datavis here.

ggm

an hour ago

Maps can be so misleading. It looks like a dredging operation in Omani waters could alleviate this, if we'd started decades ago.

Moving to a topographic view, it becomes clear the neck of land at "two seas view" is narrow, but tall. It would literally be moving a mountain.

Panamax and suezmax boats are smaller than ULCC supertankers.

Ferdinand De Lesseps time has passed. This would be ruinously expensive. Better to negotiate with rational intent.

dylan604

an hour ago

> This would be ruinously expensive.

I bet it could have been done with the money spent on the "war"

ggm

an hour ago

Yes, but in circumstances where no war is in the offing, digging a giant hole next to 50km of open water begs questions. It would be impossible to get "it's a hedge against the future" over the line.

The same to a lesser extent applies to pipes. You could construct pipes for gas, for some of the heavier oils and crude (what I read suggests pumping crude long distance is painful, it has to be down-mixed with lighter stuff to make it sufficiently fluid) but the fertilizer? that would mean converting dry to wet and back again (nobody ships fluid weight if they can avoid it) -Or ship the inputs: ammonia, and sulphur in some liquid form, and produce the dry goods on the other side.

But, I think pipes have a stronger case than a canal: move the things which are amenable to pipes, into pipes, and bury the pipes.

In times past, this would have been done as a convoy. China and other nations would have stepped to the fore, conducting safe passage with their own ships on the outside edge. But we're not in a world where this kind of thing works for anyone involved. Even offering to cover insurance risk doesn't look to have motivated ship owners to pass. (in times past, the US wouldn't have put itself or it's allies in this position, hence the reference to China)

Don't be fooled by mental images of what a convoy looks like: ships like these maintain massive separation. There's almost suction between hulls moving at this scale, if they were within 500m of each other there'd be chaos if one had to take any evasive action. In reality (I believe) even a convoy consists of a a lot of discrete, clearly demarked and targetable things, not a large mass you can "hide" in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_traffic_separation_sch... (and a lot of links off this)

analog31

an hour ago

We could have spent the money on windmills without raising any suspicions.

On the other hand, fertilizer is fluid -- either ammonia or ureal ammonium nitrate.

ggm

22 minutes ago

If the fertiliser production has a point in manufacture when the fluid is amenable to transport, then for sure, that would make sense.

And you are right, if the same amount of capital and energy was invested in Solar/Wind as in Oil, we'd be in a totally different world. It's cents to dollars, considering the size of the tail AND the current investment.

Here in Australia the problem is the royalty stream to the states. Oil and Gas windfalls when the price of equivalent supply (brent crude I believe for oil, not sure what LNG world price defines the limit) hits $100 is just amazing. The revenue stream to the states is enormous. Their motivation to transfer money into alternatives, instead of sucking on the teat, is zero. States without significant oil revenue seem to do more (SA) -States isolated from the national grid seem to do more (WA) but a site with both high insolation, and good wind, but also massive oil, gas and coal fields (Qld) does as little as possible. It's political reductionism. The crony economy is huge, Mining funds the government and the government reflects mining sector interests over all others.

truelson

2 hours ago

Really liked this. Made me laugh even if not intentionally funny.

Also, given how markets and news cycles are moved with words not actions these days, I really like this site.

There are still so many misaligned interests; this is a much tougher situation that may get some local stability for a period, but will likely return to chaos again.

4ndrewl

an hour ago

You might want to rethink scraping marinetraffic before you get a call from their lawyers?

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/p/terms

anonfunction

an hour ago

Fair enough, I'm actually not scraping it on any automated cycle currently, I just manually copied the JSON from their site to get some ships on the map.

There's a few live ship tracking APIs I considered but they are expensive or their free offering just straight up didn't work. I sent a few an email if they would consider sponsoring the project, no replies yet.

    - AISStream.io — https://aisstream.io — Down/not working
    - DataDocked — https://datadocked.com — Ran out of credits on a single failed request
    - VesselFinder — https://www.vesselfinder.com/realtime-ais-data — Enterprise contact form, asked if they wanted to sponsor in exchange for a link
    - MarineTraffic — https://www.marinetraffic.com, their API is like an enterprise contact form, same as above, waiting for response.

frogperson

an hour ago

https://warescalation.com/ is also a good source of info.

starik36

an hour ago

It says US-Israel Bloc military deaths - 74. Iran military deaths - 10,500 It has no information what is the source of information. Seems like made up numbers.

fraywing

2 hours ago

Very cool, thanks for sharing!

What's the threshold function? Do you have graduating `No --> Partially --> Mostly --> Open`?

Also what's the update cadence?

anonfunction

an hour ago

So if it's under 25% of the prior year's crossing it goes to NO, otherwise it's counted as open.

The update cadence kinda sucks because I didn't spring for the $200 a month live ship tracking data, so I'm using https://portwatch.imf.org/pages/cb5856222a5b4105adc6ee7e880a... which lags by 4 days which isn't great for a site like this, but was fine for me on a little side project. Open to other data sources or ideas, of if anyone wants to sponsor an API key (I did reach out to a few vendors already if they would give the project api key in exchange for a link to their site).

The original idea was to track ships and see how many crossed the strait but as mentioned above I didn't find any free sources so I went with what I did.

MiSeRyDeee

an hour ago

This will be inherently inaccurate because data was based on public AIS signal, but ships are turning off their AIS to avoid detection.

> In an attempt to evade detection, many ships appear to be deliberately switching off their tracking system - known as AIS (Automatic Identification System). https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4geg0eeyjeo

anonfunction

an hour ago

Great point and something I didn't consider, I should make a big disclaimer it's not meant to be fully accurate or live data. Thanks for the comment!

anonfunction

an hour ago

Another funny thing about this was this morning I checked if the domain isthestraitofhormuzopenyet.com was available and it was, and by the time I made the site locally, put it on vercel I went to buy the domain to point DNS to it someone had bought it! I renamed it to the current site url / repo which i think might be a little nicer to type, but crazy that we had same idea on apparently the same day. I was also just telling a friend about simultaneous invention aka multiple discover[1] a few days ago, so another case of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon[2]!

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion

soco

an hour ago

I was also surprised to see that arewegreatyet.com is in use already...

dr_robert

an hour ago

What did you use for the map ? Mapbox ??

Doohickey-d

an hour ago

Looks like it's using leaflet + map tiles from https://carto.com/

I think Mapbox also provides a similar looking basemap style.

luxuryballs

an hour ago

So apparently the reason they don’t just go for it is due to insurance. Because Iran technically isn’t suppose to just sink a civilian vessel, but the risk is there so the ships are ordered by the owner/stakeholder not to go due to the insurance coverage. Kind of interesting, they could technically call Iran’s bluff but it would mean, they violate the insurance contract and lose coverage? I’m just reading about this so probably not the full picture.

roncesvalles

an hour ago

The capability is very real. And they don't have to sink the ship, just one Shahed drone exploding on the deck and injuring/killing a sailor is deterrence enough.

tokai

an hour ago

No insurance has been fixed for a while now. Its as simple as shipowners not wanting to lose their boats and their future earnings potential.

cwillu

an hour ago

And their crews not wanting to lose their lives.

stavros

an hour ago

I'm not really very up to speed on this, can someone explain how the strait is actually closed? Are the Iranians threatening to sink any ships that pass by, or what? How come any ships don't turn their transponders off and try to make a run for it?

roughly

an hour ago

> How come any ships don't turn their transponders off and try to make a run for it?

Because the cost of failure is death and the crew aren’t going to risk it, and the other cost of failure is a couple hundred million dollars in ship and cargo and the insurance companies aren’t going to risk it either. This is like asking why your DoorDash driver wouldn’t just try to run the police blockade to get you your burrito.

MattDamonSpace

an hour ago

They’ll sink ships or cause damage with low cost drones or missles

The strait isn’t wide enough, Iran can see any ships attempting

stavros

an hour ago

I see, thanks. Looks like the strait is 77 km wide, which isn't one ship's width but probably not wide enough that binoculars wouldn't see everything.

cwillu

an hour ago

The navigable width where it is deep enough is significantly narrower.

stavros

an hour ago

Good point, thanks.

luxuryballs

an hour ago

From what I was reading Iran likely wouldn’t sink a civilian vessel but because the risk is there due to the threat they don’t do it because it would violate the contact for their maritime insurance, meaning even if you had a brave crew and orders to go, you lose all your insurance coverage against the loss if something goes wrong.

megous

an hour ago

I'm sure tankers are huge and show up easily on naval radars.

blobbers

an hour ago

IRGC targeting systems have entered the chat.

einpoklum

an hour ago

Iran (and various news sources) have claimed that the straights are not now, and in fact never have been, closed - provided the relevant ship was not involved/linked to the attacks on Iran, and that it coordinated with Iranian authorities.

So, it could be that:

* Iran is lying and that has not actually been an option.

* A lot of the ships which would otherwise have transitioned are involved with the war somehow.

* The relevant parties have decided not to coordinate transitions with Iran, for various reasons

* The data displayed at the link is partial for some reason.

sethops1

an hour ago

No need for baseless speculation, it's well known that no insurance company is willing to insure transit through the straight while it's an active war zone.