zx2c4
4 hours ago
This is the same problem I'm currently facing with WireGuard. No warning at all, no notification. One day I sign in to publish an update, and yikes, account suspended. Currently undergoing some sort of 60 days appeals process, but who knows. That's kind of crazy: what if there were some critical RCE in WireGuard, being exploited in the wild, and I needed to update users immediately? (That's just hypothetical; don't freak out!) In that case, Microsoft would have my hands entirely tied.
If anybody within Microsoft is able to do something, please contact me -- jason at zx2c4 dot com.
onehair
4 hours ago
Now this is even more alarming! Wireguard's creator has their Microsoft account suspended...
<Tin foil hat on> Microsoft doesn't want to allow software that would allow the user to shield themselves, either by totally encrypting a drive, or by encrypting their network traffic! </Tin foil hat on>
unicornporn
3 hours ago
> Microsoft doesn't want to allow software that would allow the user to shield themselves
I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything besides making mo' money), but there are plenty of (state) actors that can influence the decision-making at Microsoft when it comes to these issues.
No tinfoil needed.
vstm
3 hours ago
> No tinfoil needed.
That's what Big Tinfoil wants you to believe!
falcor84
3 hours ago
Wait, what?! I was sure that the agenda of Big Tinfoil was to generate FUD so that we buy more tinfoil for our hats. Are you implying their agenda goes even deeper?
kps
8 minutes ago
Have you tried to buy tin foil lately? Big Aluminum has taken over, and just see how far you get soldering the grounding strap to an aluminum foil hat.
shevy-java
3 hours ago
But making money at the expense of people is not a Tinfoil conspiracy - it's a factual statement.
lukan
an hour ago
It is also a factual statement, that tinfoil shields (somewhat) from electromagnetic radiation.
balamatom
34 minutes ago
But it is NOT necessarily a factual statement that one of the main uses of electromagnetic radiation is for humans to send information over long distances; nor that I first learned about tinfoil hats from some random piece of information that was being broadcast by means of electromagnetic radiation. It's just a vibe.
anonym29
2 hours ago
>I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything else than making money), but there are plenty of (state) actors that can influence the decision-making at Microsoft when it comes to these issues.
Microsoft the corporation may only care about making money, but a lot of very high ranking folks within MS Security aren't just friendly to intelligence agencies, they take genuine pride in helping intelligence agencies. They're the kinds of people who saw nothing wrong or objectionable with PRISM whatsoever, they were just mad they got caught, and that the end user (who they believe had no right to even know about it) found out anyway. The kind of people who openly defend the legitimacy of the FISA court.
This aren't baseless accusations, this comes from first-hand experience interacting with and talking to several of them. Charlie Bell literally kept a CIA mug on a shelf behind him, prominently visible during Teams calls, as if to brag.
Remember - Microsoft was the very first company on the NSA's own internal slide deck depicting a timeline of PRISM collection capabilities by platform, started all the way back in 2007. All companies on that slide may have been compelled to assist with national security letters. Some were just more eager than others to betray the privacy and trust of their own customers and end-users.
dboreham
an hour ago
It's quite possible TLAs plant employees inside important tech companies. So not only are they sympathetic, they directly work for them.
balamatom
30 minutes ago
>I don't think Microsoft cares (about anything besides making mo' money)
If Microsoft amounts to a sentient entity (i.e. is able to care about things), we have a bigger problem.
If we put the wall of metaphor between us and that interpretation, it still remains likely that "users shielding themselves" is of primary concern to Microsoft's bottom line.
Macha
an hour ago
Alternatively they asked copilot to scan for crypto projects and ban them
ngetchell
3 hours ago
Or more likely, some automated security system flagged popular but suspicious apps for further review.
Gigachad
2 hours ago
Automated systems breaking things without any human contact to get them resolved seems to be the theme of the last 10 years.
raxxorraxor
2 hours ago
Where are the people that tried to sell us software signatures as security benefit? The reality is that they are a very specific security problem. In theory and in practice.
nelox
3 hours ago
Maybe they let Mythos loose and it suggested the safest approach was to remove access ;)
blitzar
an hour ago
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
iamnothere
7 minutes ago
Surprised to see you here. Thanks for all your hard work.
I expect this kind of thing to accelerate alongside global conflicts. All security and privacy projects ought to publish to multiple jurisdictions. Ideally something like Radicle should be in the mirroring plan, as this is fully distributed and cannot be attacked through the usual channels of legal and extralegal pressure, including bans, DMCA harassment, and domain seizures. (Radicle can be self-hosted behind an onion domain for additional resilience and privacy.)
teruakohatu
4 hours ago
I am astounded that the maintainer and inventor of Wireguard is in this position.
Microsoft even supports Wireguard in Azure Kubernetes Service.
windowliker
an hour ago
Is this another example of their old modus operandi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
?
miroljub
3 hours ago
Maybe time for a custom license that would require M$ to sign up for special T&Cs if they want to use this software?
Who cares if it's OSI-approved or not, a line saying "M$, Google, and the like need written permission for every use case" would help to make those leeches honest. Just learn from the JSLint example.
UqWBcuFx6NV4r
2 hours ago
We literally just did this. Now we have Valkey. Nobody won.
pocksuppet
an hour ago
Did anyone lose?
Valkey is better because all of the new development work happens on Valkey, not because of the license. If the actual developer changed the license, that would be a different situation.
nelox
3 hours ago
Agree. Single point of failure. One developer, one account. Crazy.
ptx
3 hours ago
Having multiple accounts wouldn't help, as Microsoft could easily suspend all the accounts of everyone associated with the project if any account looks suspicious. The single point of failure is Microsoft.
raxxorraxor
2 hours ago
No, that is not the issue here. The source of the problem is something different. This is a wrong root cause analysis.
pjc50
an hour ago
You're not actually allowed to avoid this by having multiple accounts, that falls under "ban evasion".
But yes, there's a lot of critical single maintainer projects.
jamesnorden
2 hours ago
How would more than one account help in this scenario, exactly?
pocksuppet
an hour ago
The other day I tried to create a Github account and was repeatedly told I am fraudulent. Nothing else. Try again later, it says.
This is the same thing that's happened every time I've tried to have a Microsoft account. I don't think Microsoft wants to have customers who aren't rich.
jchw
3 hours ago
I tried to set up a partner account for driver signing last year (as a business entity) and it already seemed basically impossible. I think they're getting ready to just simply not allow it at all.
This is stupid. If Microsoft wants people to stop writing kernel drivers, that's potentially doable (we just need sufficient user mode driver equivalents...) but not doing that and also shortening the list of who can sign kernel drivers down to some elite group of grandfathered companies and individuals is the worst possible outcome.
But at this point I almost wish they didn't fix it, just to drive home the point harder to users how little they really own their computer and OS anymore.
tssva
an hour ago
Has your Apple account been suspended for the last few years?
gib444
3 hours ago
Y'all need to form an alliance or something, get some press coverage (wireguard, veracrypt, libreoffice)
duskdozer
3 hours ago
True, but really even if it gets resolved for them it should basically be a huge warning sign to everybody. Projects like those might get reinstated but it would only be because of how big they are that it would matter. Any person or small or 'undesirable' project would not get the same resolution.
ransom1538
an hour ago
Just so people are clear here. IMHO Microsoft had a huge meeting on this with many people then decided to blacklist a person. You usually code a blacklist. Beyond weird. Government involvement for sure.
0xC0ncord
10 minutes ago
I have a hard time believing this to be true when for a while now it's always been some automated system that goes completely unchecked and unmonitored. It's not until someone who is wrongfully affected complains on Xitter does anyone notice.
prosopts
an hour ago
What are you basing your remark here on?
malfist
a few seconds ago
His humble opinion apparently.
tamimio
3 hours ago
I think it’s intentional, those encryption (at rest/transit) applications are outside of MS control and you can assume outside of potential backdoors by three letters agencies, bitlocker vs veracrypt? Of course bitlocker is favorable from their perspective.
I wouldn’t be surprised if NSA already had a list of these applications and the strategies on how to cripple them or worse, compromise them.
nelox
3 hours ago
Or found they’ve been compromised by someone else? ;)
matheusmoreira
27 minutes ago
> what if there were some critical RCE in WireGuard, being exploited in the wild, and I needed to update users immediately?
Honestly, anyone still using Windows probably deserves it.