Decades of HN users finger wagging and suggesting FOSS hardware has progressed society nowhere. 12 months from EU mandatory replaceable batteries and products across the industry are being redesigned with repairability, usb-c, and user friendly designs.

It’s time to accept regulation actually does work when you have a competent government.

> No, this is a bad solution.

You didn't say why this is a bad solution. The government mandates that cars get safer every year and fatalities are down 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government regulates things to benefit people, people tend to benefit.

> One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc.

It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to repair.

Here is the thing, replacing something may be hard or easy. But getting the parts (which are already produced and available for the manufacturers for their "added value" repairs) should be as easy as how they are getting them too.

Not to mention manuals/instructions. Regulation discussed here is about these too.

Also as consumer, I would argue the marketing done by apple is just scammy. They keep praising how much carbon saved or sustainable new machines are. But in fact, a minor issue becomes a massive electronic dump.

I also like Macs, I own several of them. Repaired a few. Mostly replacing batteries and keyboards. For example 2014 Macbook Air had a normal battery, no sticky business. Meanwhile 2020-2025 MacBook Air has sticky stuff, making repairs harder.

The best part is, 2014 macbook air has 54 Watt/hr battery, 2020-2025 models are 53 watts/hour. The lasting battery gains are coming from Apple silicon efficiency as well as modern BMS.

Simply put, regulation is the answer. Apple makes it difficult because they can, and also because it creates revenue. Of repairability was the source of income, you would see 10/10 repairable macbooks with no (significant) tradeoffs. (ie. it could be a few grams heavier for added screws)

Interestingly, Apple's newest and cheapest laptop (the Neo) is super repairable. And even the keyboard is finally replaceable without having to replace the entire top case. Hopefully the trend is continued in the next redesigns of the Air and Pro which are due soon.

> If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework

But that means Windows or Linux, not macOS. There's serious trade-offs that you're dismissing because you personally don't need macOS, but that's not the case for everyone.

#hn-bingo

The "just buy another one" argument only works if the alternatives are even comparable. For a lot of people, macOS is a hard requirement and not a preference, so telling them just to buy a framework that runs Linux ignores that entirely. Right to repair regulation doesn't force Apple to make a worse product it just requires that the parts and repair information are available.

> If you want a repairable machine, buy one.... Framework

Sure, but Framework doesn't run the OS I want, doesn't run the chip I want, doesn't quite meet the form factor I want. It's not an effective market because I can't pick and choose.

The problem here is vertical integration. If you want anything from Apple you have to buy everything from Apple.

And the answer to that is: regulation.

No. This is a bad solution. You can't blame consumers for not making the right choice when there's a sea of irreparable junk and a few niche repairable options on the market. Reparability should be the default expectation.

The Macbook Neo is just as high-quality as any other Apple product. Apple has some of the most brilliant engineers in the industry, they can absolutely design a repairable device to their own standards.

Goverment regulates everything including cow farts!

Apple can keep their unrepairable macbook. Butc should not be marketed as "green product". It should pay extra as ICE cars, be excluded from educational markets, public institutions etc...

100% agree. If you don’t like that Apple products are expensive to repair, don’t buy them or suck it up

I came to terms with it, mostly. I buy AppleCare. I’ve had my screen on my M1 Mac replaced twice.

I agree with the sentiment tho. I had the rubber foot come off the bottom of a MacBook Pro, Apple wanted $350 to replace that $1 part. I found other solutions

>One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc. These quality features are, in part, achieved by the same choices that make it hard to repair.

Lol what.

Nothing about apple design is a sacrifice to repairability. The only reason they make it hard to repair is because when your Mac breaks, you go buy another one. Can't afford it? Then you are not "classy" enough to own a Mac.

I swear, there must be some epidemic where Mac fans are losing their marbles even more so today.

What if the repairable ones crunch the numbers and find out that Apple got the right idea from business standpoint and the only reason they can't do the same is that their laptops or their brand is not as good? It will mean that if they actually end up making a product that people want that product will not be easy to repair as well.

Yeah we can keep saying that, but thanks to the EU we have everybody with shared chargers. Thanks to the EU, the nintendo switch has a replaceable battery. Thanks to the EU, we have USB-C on iPhone.

I'm sorry but your argument conflicts with reality at this point: regulation works better for expectations on hardware.

you seem to assume that markets regulate themselves. This is a common fallacy. Good regulation is fundamental in any working society.

well it's a good solution in the sense that it would solve the problem and it would be great for all of us.

What a wildly incorrect comment. You realize its perfectly feasible and fully within apple engineers powers to design trivially repairable notebook (or any other device) while not losing any of those qualities you mention (which are easy to find in expensive competition too)? Don't make those extremely well paid engineers incompetent just because it suits your argument.

But vendor lockin mandated by management is way more powerful than powers of engineers, apple ain't immune to this since its accountants and lawyers running the company.

I'll give it a benefit of a doubt and won't claim its a PR comment and just a uncritical fanboy one, but its pretty close.

Thanks for posting, I might attempt this if I feel brave enough one day! Mind if I link to this from the post? Could help someone in the future

wow, you are not underplaying the force needed. You can hear the rivets going.

Thankfully the m1 was the last of the evil design era for Macs. Modern ones are significantly better. The neo being the best, able to be fully disassembled with a screw driver in a few minutes

Framework Laptop is more expensive than a Macbook Air with all around worse hardware. For a framework 13 I'd have to pay 1900€ with a 16GB setup. For 1450 I get a MBA with 24GB ram. Similar with a dell or lenovo who get smoked in performance comparisons.

It might still be worth it for those who hugely value open source and repairability but as for value I think its save to say that Apple is currently in a league of their own. Even if the altest os update is a flop.

Also, the Macbook has improved repairability. While its still not great its better than a few years ago.

If they would have sprung for the AMD395+ in the latop @ 128GB, you'd have a fair comparison for AI compute.

AppleCare is honestly a great deal, especially for laptops. M1 Macbook Pros from 2020 are humming along just fine for regular people who see no reason to upgrade.

The future is now, old man.

Yes it is, I had my M! Max keyboard replaced as repairing the individual keycaps didn't work, and then they replaced the entire logic board while they were testing due to finding an error. Total cost was around €1400, to me €0. New bottom case, new battery, new logic board.

Keyboards on MacBook Pros have been riveted since at least 2014. That doesn’t necessarily disprove your argument, but it does move the “thin and light” bar farther back than one would expect from the phrasing.

I don't see a replacement guide link on that page, but curiously there's this note:

> The aluminum upper case and installation screws are not included.

I would assume you likely need those too, as the article also mentions.

The article is ten paragraphs (two of which are four words or shorter). The entire sixth paragraph is dedicated to answering that question.

It is. It's simply expensive.

Far more likely it's an electrical contact issue.

What was the problem? If the local repair center couldn't reproduce it, what was going on?

And what do you mean they lost your return? Like it got delivered and then it was lost? Surely they gave you a working unit at that point?

I've had a bunch of experiences with Apple repair and always always been fast and great. I mean, they're definitely the best service of literally any corporation I've dealt with, by far. Sometimes you get unlucky I guess with a particular rep or something hard to reproduce, but it sounds like you got extremely unlucky? It definitely isn't representative in my experience, not even close.

My MacBook Pro M1 keyboard repair costed >700€, this is not a butterfly keyboard. So also new models have an expensive keyboard replacement.

My previous MacBook Pro keyboard was a butterfly keyboard and also broke, but got replaced for free. I don’t feel I am a heavy user as the MacBook Pro is mostly connected to an external keyboard and am pretty annoyed by apples keyboard quality (based on my sample size of 2).

I think those are just the keycaps, not the switches or the actual board underneath

Government regulation has mandated USB-C in all devices, which helps me every day. Just to name something in the realm of what the article is about.

If you think Apple is incapable of designing repairable keyboards, then I'd like to know how Lenovo figured it out: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T480+Keyboard+R...

Chewing on lead paint and reading Ayn Rand is not how to learn how the world works either.

Replying to myself because I forgot the reference [0]

I'm happy with the downvotes if they're for the JK laptop keyboard mashup.

Otherwise, pretty much as others have posted. Peripherals otta be peripheral, not welded in place.

I worked around the dilemma.

Twice.

An iPad pro has a keyboard, trackpad and BT mouse.

And I have a doorstop iMac because of a somehow dead display. (repair $$$$$ )

I very much favor separate everything.

Peace.

[0] https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-r...

The author isn't Swedish. I've known him for 18 years. Not sure where this comes from.

isn't an issue ONLY with macbook keyboards. It is absolutely an issue that shouldn't exist.