Chris_Newton
6 hours ago
With all the emphasis on the speed of modern AI tools, we often seem to forget that velocity is a vector quantity. Increased speed only gets us where we want to be sooner if we are also heading in the right direction. If we’re far enough off course, increasing speed becomes counterproductive and it ends up taking longer to get where we want to be.
I’ve been noticing that this simple reality explains almost all of both the good and the bad that I hear about LLM-based coding tools. Using AI for research or to spin up a quick demo or prototype is using it to help plot a course. A lot of the multi-stage agentic workflows also come down to creating guard rails before doing the main implementation so the AI can’t get too far off track. Most of the success stories I hear seem to be in these areas so far. Meanwhile, probably the most common criticism I see is that an AI that is simply given a prompt to implement some new feature or bug fix for an existing system often misunderstands or makes bad assumptions and ends up repeatedly running into dead ends. It moves fast but without knowing which direction to move in.
gopalv
5 hours ago
> Increased speed only gets us where we want to be sooner if we are also heading in the right direction.
This is a real problem when the "direction" == "good feedback" from a customer standpoint.
Before we had a product person for every ~20 people generating code and now we're all product people, the machines are writing the code (not all of it, but enough of it that I will -1 a ~4000 line PR and ask someone to start over, instead of digging out of the hole in the same PR).
Feedback takes time on the system by real users to come back to the product team.
You need a PID like smoothing curve over your feature changes.
Like you said, Speed isn't velocity.
Specifically if you have a decent experiment framework to keep this disclosure progressive in the customer base, going the wrong direction isn't a huge penalty as it used to be.
I liked the PostHog newsletter about the "Hidden dangers of shipping fast", I can't find a good direct link to it.
Ezra
4 hours ago
This is the article you referred to:
https://newsletter.posthog.com/p/the-hidden-danger-of-shippi...
chrisweekly
4 hours ago
Thanks! Great link.
nabbed
5 hours ago
>Increased speed only gets us where we want to be sooner if we are also heading in the right direction.
I suppose there is an argument that if you are building the wrong thing, build it fast so that you can find out more quickly that you built the wrong thing, allowing you to iterate more quickly.
roughly
5 hours ago
It's still faster and cheaper to just build the right thing to begin with. As the old saying goes, spend your time sharpening your ax.
mgfist
4 hours ago
Yes, but only if you have an ax to sharpen. With a lot of things it takes trial and error to make progress. You can take this pretty up high too - sometimes it takes building multiple products or companies to get it right
Jare
3 hours ago
> With a lot of things it takes trial and error to make progress
Way too often that is used as an excuse for various forms of laziness; to not think about the things you can already know. And that lack of thinking repeats in an endless cycle when, after your trial and error, you don't use what you learned because "let's look forward not backward", "let's fail fast and often" and similar platitudes.
Catchy slogans and heartfelt desires are great but you gotta put the brains in it too.
diatone
an hour ago
Without commenting about the frequency of negligence myself, I suspect at least that you and GP are in agreement.
I doubt GP is suggesting ‘go ahead and be negligent to feedback and guardrails that let you course correct early.’
Plugging the Cynefin framework as a useful technique for practitioners here. It doesn’t have to be hard to choose whether or not rigorous planning is appropriate for the task at hand, versus probe-test-backtrack with tight iteration loops.
overfeed
4 hours ago
> I suppose there is an argument that if you are building the wrong thing, build it fast so that you can find out more quickly that you built the wrong thing,
A lot of people are so enamored by speed, they are not even taking the time to carefully consider the full picture of what they are building. Take the HN frontpage story on OpenCode: IIRC, a maintainer admitted they keep adding many shallow features that are brittle.
Speed cannot replace product vision and discipline.
fc417fc802
4 hours ago
The outcome of that approach depends entirely on the broader process. Imagine golf but you refuse to swing with anything less than maximum strength to avoid wasting time.
Discovery is great and all but if what you discover is that you didn't aim well to begin with that's not all that useful.
siddboots
3 hours ago
I've been working on a side project for ~10 years (very intermittently) that involves a tricky combination of mathematics, classical AI algorithms, and programming language design, and I've gone though this very slow but rewarding journey to work out how all of the pieces should fit together properly.
In the last year or so I've been able to prototype it and accelerate the development quite significantly using Claude and pals, and now it is very close to a finished product. One one hand there's no doubt in my mind that the LLM tools can make this sort of thing faster and let you churn through ideas until you find the right ones, but on the other hand, if I hadn't had that slow burn of mostly just thinking about it conceptually for 10 years, I would have ended up vibe coding a much worse product.
jstummbillig
2 hours ago
Ah, metaphors. Abstract concepts are not moving objects. You don't actually need to "turn it around" or "sail past it". You can break the laws of physics (because they don't apply). You can teleport around.
Speed actually just wins, because we are usually constrained by time.
Chris_Newton
an hour ago
Speed actually just wins, because we are usually constrained by time.
Sorry, but I don’t understand what you mean here. What do we win by being faster at producing the wrong things?
3121aksj8p
2 hours ago
Yes, AI can emit BS at a faster rate than ever. We can also produce more blog posts than ever.
Working or useful software? AI hasn't produced any at all since 2023.
jstummbillig
2 hours ago
Wow, an account, just for that? I feel honored and slightly suspicious.
skydhash
6 hours ago
> It moves fast but without knowing which direction to move in.
It also moves fast with a tendency to pick the wrong direction (according to the goal of the prompter) at every decision point (known or unknown).
tombert
6 hours ago
I've definitely gotten it into contexts where it will never stop going into the wrong direction, even when I tell it to forget everything it did before, and told it a correct path forward. Usually restarting the entire session fixes it, but not always.
FrankRay78
2 hours ago
Shrewd context management is the go here.