Judge order bars feds from altering or destroying evidence in Pretti shooting

88 pointsposted 11 days ago
by hn_acker

70 Comments

2muchcoffeeman

11 days ago

Why was such an order needed? Seems like this should be the default and if you are caught tampering, straight to jail.

acdha

11 days ago

This prevents them from pleading ignorance or incompetence. There’s no way to say you didn’t know that you needed to keep records when a federal judge very specifically ordered you to do so.

dpkirchner

11 days ago

What punishment will they actually receive when they defy this order?

acdha

11 days ago

That’s quite the national question more broadly but I look at it this way: if the administration and the Roberts court go all-in on a coup, there’s not going to be accountability without a lot of pain. In that scenario, this doesn’t matter except as evidence for some future tribunal.

However, these guys aren’t Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, etc. on their rise to power. The guy at the top is starting as a struggling octogenarian who even in his prime had an entire professional career based not on hard work but tax evasion and barratry. Most of his top delegates were selected for their social media profiles, not competency, and even within the right a lot of people disliked them personally even if they’re willing to overlook that for power. His supporters are quite loyal but are also being hit by a lot of his policies in ways which are hard to ignore.

That makes me think there are a range of scenarios where this does matter, as we can see right now. Cops tend to support Republicans but a number of them are stepping up to say this is outside of their professional standards. A lot of “law and order” suburban voters are seeing these videos not just as something they don’t approve of–especially the “he had a legal gun so we had to execute him” defense–but also recognizing that the administration completely lied about that and we know only because of the kind of evidence at risk here.

The Roberts court has taken significant moves to empower Trump, but it seems like they’re hedging their bets in key areas: note how the shield against prosecution was conditional leaving them an easy way to find the opposite in any future case, and how much of their support has been shadow docket moves designed to delay without setting a permanent precedent. I think they’re recognizing the fragility of the current administration and leaving a backup plan for the autogolpe failing.

Things like this force the administration’s supporters to be more open about what they’re doing, in ways which risk losing their less die-hard supporters. Blowing off a court order forces SCOTUS to either rule against the administration or go on the record inventing a new way the executive branch is above the law. I think they know that’s risky at a time when a majority of the country is starting to realize exactly what’s at stake.

CamperBob2

11 days ago

autogolpe

New word for me, thanks for that one. I'm sure it will come in handy.

marstall

11 days ago

"barratry" - thanks for that one, too!

Freedom2

11 days ago

Does it actually prevent them from pleading those? As far as I'm aware they're still able to make those pleass, albeit it's likely to be in contempt or is considered willfull blindness. I don't think a court order can actually prevent someone from pleading a certain way, but please let us know otherwise.

jauntywundrkind

11 days ago

ICE seems to be having a problem with their video monitoring systems having system crashes. Sorry court, we lost all the data! https://www.404media.co/ice-says-critical-evidence-in-broadv...

I'm still so confused how the issue became "her emails" when they were basically turned over, dealt with. Where-as oops, the Bush White House "lost" literally millions of emails & allowed people to delete whatever they wanted. This is the sort of hiding in the shadows evil shit that I wish Obama had tried to bring to light, tried to prosecute some people for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controv...

Marimar Martinez is trying to make public the records of what ICE did after they tried to kill her & accused her of being a terrorist. That would be interesting to see. Liars liars everywhere, no respect for society. https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2026/01/26/marimar-...

direwolf20

11 days ago

It's easy to explain: Us good. Them bad.

2muchcoffeeman

11 days ago

How does it help when Trump governs by veto? Won’t be just veto it all?

salawat

11 days ago

It does. The judiciary has given the Executive a command that it is now part of Trump's "official duties" to ensure gets carried out. Failure to comply with that order may ultimately turn into a subordinate dismissal; but it will also be yet another time the executive failed to execute a lawful order from the judiciary.

This is all assuming Robert's plan was ultimately to give this admin enough rope to hang themselves with; and holding onto the "official duties" definition hitherto deliberately left undefined to act as the trap spring.

I wouldn't put money on that though. This SCOTUS other decisions have me thinking their a little more cushy with the Cheeto than not.

acdha

11 days ago

My read is that Roberts sees his court as an instrument of Republican power, not personal loyalty to one man, and so he’ll act in ways to keep power in their hands but will not give up power following him down.

croisillon

11 days ago

epstein's bff will start prophylactic pardonning any and all ICE thugs

CamperBob2

11 days ago

Also, considering how much Trump needs a distraction from the consequences of this particular distraction from the Epstein files, I wouldn't want to be in an Iranian government or military leadership position over the next few days.

bluGill

11 days ago

Destroying data when it is no longer needed is a good thing. So the very first thing that happens whenever there is a possibility of something going to court is the court orders everyone to not delete relevent information.

this should just be a formality. However if someone is trying to cover sonething up they can't say it wasn't because they throw everything away.

_def

11 days ago

Why is that even needed, honestly? Like is "destroying or altering evidence" usually legitimate or what?

tlb

11 days ago

Deleting data according to a pre-defined schedule (often 90 days) is legitimate and standard. It's good that agencies do this, to limit exposure due to data breaches. And it's normal for courts to issue a preservation order for specific data relevant to a potential case.

It'd be better if the courts could actually deal with the case now instead of in 1-5 years, but alas.

Jtsummers

11 days ago

> (often 90 days)

Not for government agencies. Data retention generally goes much longer than that, usually measured in years or decades, not days or weeks.

tlb

11 days ago

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/poli... has a list of police body cam retention policies. 90 days is pretty common, though it ranges from 30 days to 5 years.

Documents are kept longer. But a court needs to think about the shortest possible retention time that any agency might have for any kind of evidence.

Jtsummers

11 days ago

From your link's subheading:

> This chart includes categories for how long video is kept if it does not contain evidence of a crime [emphasis added]

So yes, some things are short (I did write "usually" for a reason), but even your link doesn't claim that video of a killing would be deleted in 90 days. It's evidence, 90 days would be ridiculously short for retaining evidence.

Even for people who don't think the ICE agents committed a crime, the ICE agents and DHS have claimed that this was the outcome from actions by a "domestic terrorist" which certainly makes it evidence of a crime from their own perspective.

cdrnsf

11 days ago

The agencies in question are unlikely to face any accountability. The agencies that would typically investigate something like this are no longer independent and, instead, are headed by feckless Trump loyalists. It doesn't matter whether it's legitimate, it matters whether it serves their ends. If they cared about process or the law they wouldn't have been labeling the victim a domestic terrorist within minutes of ICE agents murdering him.

OutOfHere

11 days ago

A future administration absolutely can and should prosecute every single ICE employee.

cdrnsf

11 days ago

Dissolve it and DHS. Investigate every single ERO agent and prosecute those that meet the bar. Bar all of them from future public service. Prosecute agency heads.

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

They're all getting pardoned.

direwolf20

11 days ago

Federal pardons only work for federal charges, which murder isn't.

A future administration cold, but won't, choose to ignore the law about parsons just like this one is ignoring the law about murder and torture.

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

I believe they will try to use removal to get it into federal courts.

AnimalMuppet

11 days ago

Does removal let a federal pardon apply to a state crime, even if it's tried in federal court?

cosmicgadget

10 days ago

Good question. I suppose Trump doesn't much care, he already attempted to pardon that lady who gave balloting material to Mike Pillow. He'll just go issue the pardons and let the courts sort it out.

Or he could have the DOJ charge all of ICE, get the cases removed to federal court, then do an Eric Adams job on them. That'd be a sight to behold.

OutOfHere

11 days ago

Are pardons issued by a felon actually valid? It is for a future court to decide in a subsequent administration.

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

Unfortunately as long as that felon was elected president, yes.

xenospn

11 days ago

The odds of that happening are zero.

seanmcdirmid

11 days ago

Yes, but they might not stop the states from prosecuting them.

lotsofpulp

11 days ago

Sounds like federal government employees blocked access to the crime scene to state and local government employees. Presumably, this “order” is to help facilitate access without violence between federal and non federal government employees.

jjallen

11 days ago

Not sure why anyone thinks a judges order is worth anything in the USA anymore. I am not reassured at all.

direwolf20

11 days ago

They're not enforced any more. The administration can just ignore it.

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

If that were the case things would look very different.

jjallen

10 days ago

Like what would that look like? US citizens being shot in the back of the head by government agents? On a weekly basis?

cosmicgadget

10 days ago

I mean you just have to look at all of the things that have been blocked by the courts in the last year. Deportations without access to counsel, federalized national guards, a variety of interim appointments...

And before you go there, yes, I am aware the administration has ignored court orders and played dumb afterward. That doesn't mean they've successfully ignored most judicial decisions.

defrost

11 days ago

Currently doing the rounds of non US but allied special forces and commando chat groups is the blunt response of US General Tony Thomas, former head of the Special Operations Command (2016 to 2019) to each and every one of the senior Trump administration pushing the domestic terrorist line.

Stephen Miller (for one of many) tweeted:

  A would-be assassin tried to murder federal law enforcement and the official Democrat account sides with the terrorists.
General Tony Thomas responded with a high resolution image of the first shot taken, from the rear, execution style:

https://x.com/TonyT2Thomas/status/2015629593265250810

I hope the US population can reign in Hegseth, Miller, Bondi, et al clown car.

It's obvious to all across the globe what's going here.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_A._Thomas can be compared to the bio of the day drinking weekend warrior currently heading the US DoD.

CamperBob2

11 days ago

Unfortunately it appears the general has fallen for an AI hoax photo.

defrost

11 days ago

Dunno about that.

Not whether the photo was AI or not, and not whether he has fallen for it if it was.

It's still a strong comment on the situation likely formed from watching the dynamics of the situation in play on video from somebody that has experience in volatile policing of real and quasi war zones.

It's strength is from pushing back on the Miller-time obvious propaganda.

Where it falls down is engaging in fighting bald untruths and memes from the Whitehouse with likely more of the same.

In our part of the world, as in any part, we do bad things, our people do bad things, but we endeavour to hold their feet to fire when they do:

* https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04en9wllpxo

* https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-07/kumanjayi-walker-inqu...

It's disapointing to see the official Whitehouse feeds being used for clowning about wrt serious events and the first response to tragedy being to obviously lie and deny.

CamperBob2

11 days ago

Dunno about that.

The agent kneeling on the ground is missing his head.

defrost

11 days ago

And?

Does that, in fact, mean that "the general has fallen for an AI hoax photo"?

What if it were posted in the full knowledge it was shitty AI assisted upscale still image generated from poor resolution cell footage from a distance?

The striking thing about the US forum discussions of the seceral ICE incidents including the two killings, both here on HN and elsewhere is the laser like focus on small details in a tiny windows of time.

There's scant attention paid to the bigger picture in which a small group has worked for a long time to stack the Supreme Court, find the right POTUS to front, and work to incite unrest in "enemy states".

CamperBob2

11 days ago

What if it were posted in the full knowledge it was shitty AI assisted upscale still image generated from poor resolution cell footage from a distance?

That would be worse.

You get why that would be worse, right?

defrost

10 days ago

Reduction of the response to the level of the Whitehouse which has been posting totally doctored images for much of 2025 + 2026.

> You get why that would be worse, right?

You understand this discussion has been implicit since the initial comment I first made above when I first referred to the image?

I dare say we come from different English as a First Language countries as you appear to be fixated on hammering out the obvious as if I was unaware.

Returning to your assertion that the image poster, General 'Tony' Thomas "has fallen for an AI hoax photo" I would ask you:

* was he really unaware this was a processed image?

* does that matter?

* does this affect his messaging, that in his opinion the state is executing civilians?

It's been kind of totally completely obvious to the meanest intellect from the outside looking in that the US has been circling down the drain of reduced attention span and increased meme battles for, what, a good decade at least now?

It's now hit the highest echelons and become embedded in both sides of the aisle and the military .. has SCOTUS started filing memes yet?

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

> I hope the US population can reign in Hegseth, Miller, Bondi, et al clown car.

There's not much chance of that. The courts may keep them within some guardrails but there's no stopping this save for the impossible impeachment+conviction.

Maybe public opinion will convince them to soften, e.g. the news of Bovino getting reassigned.

b00ty4breakfast

11 days ago

These judges can spend the rest of eternity issuing these orders but there is no mechanism to enforce it since the current administration has shown a complete disregard for precedence and mores.

cosmicgadget

11 days ago

The thing about precedence is it's not binding. Judges' orders are, alas many of them get overturned on appeal.

hn_acker

11 days ago

The original title is:

> Judge grants order barring feds from altering or destroying evidence in Pretti shooting

justarobert

11 days ago

Well that is reassuring. This administration has demonstrated an excellent track record of respecting and following judicial orders.

optimalsolver

11 days ago

I smiled when I saw the NYT headline asking for an "independent inquiry". Are they living in an alternate reality? These guys are not gonna give two fucks about what some toothless committee concludes three years from now.

JohnTHaller

11 days ago

Given Trump folks' previous behavior surrounding court orders of documents, I'm sure this will be respected

hippo22

11 days ago

I don’t think this belongs on HN. There isn’t a compelling technical angle and there are plenty of other venues to discuss politics.

acdha

11 days ago

The technical angle which is most of interest to me are building systems which preserve evidence. For example, how do you build a cloud sync service which prevents someone other than the owner of the phone from deleting videos without the owner’s consent (or in ways which allow them to regain access after being released) while still allowing people to delete things they might not want a hostile government to see. There are no silver bullets here but some really interesting trade offs.

hippo22

11 days ago

None of that is present in the article, however, which essentially consists of a restatement of the headline. This post is essentially engagement bait.

happytoexplain

11 days ago

There is a line across which happenings are universally relevant, and we have crossed it. This is especially important on platforms that are ostensibly enlightened.

There are borderline zero viable platforms for political discourse. Do not try to censor discourse here.

hippo22

11 days ago

Try Reddit. You’ll see this exact topic discussed nearly indefinitely.

happytoexplain

11 days ago

I'm not interested in their discourse.

Topics != community. But that's obvious - there's no reason to ignore that fact unless you're trying to insult somebody for petty reasons.

hippo22

11 days ago

[flagged]

happytoexplain

11 days ago

Why write like this on HN? It's the antithesis of its culture. Ironically, you're telling people to go somewhere else, which is itself an attitude that belongs in those other places.

hippo22

11 days ago

My point is that there are plenty of other places to discuss this topic, e.g. Reddit and Facebook. The reason you don’t like those venues is because they produce conversation of the lowest common denominator. What you don’t realize is that’s really the only type of conversation you can have on this topic. So, by advocating for this topic on HN, you are brining those aspects of Facebook and Reddit which you dislike here.

happytoexplain

11 days ago

You're wrong. I've had many valuable conversations on wedge topics on HN.

(I'm not at the moment, which is unusual)

direwolf20

11 days ago

Reddit doesn't allow discussion. Reddit threads are restatement of the opinions of the subreddit moderators. Any other comments are removed.

hn_acker

11 days ago

I did not post this article on account of a technical angle or lack thereof. I posted it because I believe the judge's order is a practical necessity in this situation, and to the extent that it is a practical necessity is an "interesting new phenomenon". The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) sought such a temporary restraining order this time because the BCA learned from the last time the federal government blocked the BCA from investigating a killing by ICE [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Inv...

krapp

11 days ago

Hacker News doesn't require a compelling technical angle.

This is a civil discussion, no flamewar, and yet it still gets flagged.

elpocko

11 days ago

You click 'flag' and move on. It's not worth it.

jemmyw

11 days ago

why even do that? just leave it for people who want this discussion. enough voted it up to get on the home page.

elpocko

7 days ago

Because there is no other way to effectively say "I'm not interested in this kind of content". You say it in the comments, you get punished. There is no downvoting posts, flagging is the only thing that has an effect.