Television is 100 years old today

117 pointsposted 4 hours ago
by qassiov

34 Comments

Deanallen

4 minutes ago

> Television, he notes, has introduced the phrase "now this", which implies a complete absence of connection between the separate topics the phrase ostensibly connects.

This idea is why I always take media with a grain of salt. The decontexualization makes it easy for people to be reactive towards something, that isn’t logical

Eg “now this is why <insert person or group> is good/evil”

People call me the devils advocate when I point out these nuances but I just think we need to be much more critical when forming and holding opinions.

augusteo

17 minutes ago

The Baird vs Farnsworth debate reminds me of similar discussions in tech. The first demo rarely becomes the dominant standard.

What strikes me is how fast the iteration was. Baird went from hatboxes and bicycle lenses to color TV prototypes in just two years. That's the kind of rapid experimentation we're seeing with AI right now, though compressed even further.

bilsbie

an hour ago

Odd we never adapted to it.

Video has a strange hypnotic power over most people and messages seem to bypass normal mental defenses.

Geste

36 minutes ago

I'd say we did, you need more and more for the same effect.

Here is the first ad ever, for a watch : https://youtu.be/ho2OJfXkvpI

For comparison, here is the latest ad for the best selling watch as of today : https://youtu.be/kdMTc5WfnkM

andai

30 minutes ago

Everyone's trying too hard to stand out, but honestly the first one would stand out more today, despite being a still image!

jedberg

an hour ago

This is interesting. John Logie Baird did in fact demonstrate something that looked like TV, but the technology was a dead end.

Philo Farnsworth demonstrated a competing technology a few years later, but every TV today is based on his technology.

So, who actually invented Television?

armadsen

an hour ago

For what it’s worth, Philo Farnsworth and John Logie Baird were friendly with each other. I was lucky to know Philo’s wife Pem very well in the last part of her life, and she spoke highly of Baird as a person.

David Sarnoff and RCA was an entirely different matter, of course…

MoonWalk

39 minutes ago

You should read about the invention of color television. There were two competing methods, one of which depended on a spinning wheel with colored filters in it. If I remember correctly, you needed something like a 10-foot wheel to have a 27-inch TV.

Sure enough, this was the system selected as the winner by the U.S. standard-setting body at the time. Needless to say, it failed and was replaced by what we ended up with... which still sucked because of the horrible decision to go to a non-integer frame rate. Incredibly, we are for some reason still plagued by 29.97 FPS long after the analog system that required it was shut off.

eternauta3k

27 minutes ago

Why is an integer frame rate better?

iso1631

22 minutes ago

Originally you had 30fps, it was the addition of colour with the NTSC system that dropped it to 30000/1001fps. That wasn't a decision taken lightly -- it was a consequence of retrofitting colour onto a black and white system while maintaining backward compatibility.

When the UK (and Europe) went colour it changed to a whole new system and didn't have to worry too much about backward compatibility. It had a higher bandwidth (8mhz - so 33% more than NTSC), and was broadcasting on new channels separate to the original 405 lines. It also had features like alternating the phase of every other line to reduce the "tint" or "never twice the same color" problem that NTSC had

America chose 30fps but then had to slow it by 1/1001ths to avoid interference.

Of course because by the 90s and the growth of digital, there was already far too much stuff expecting "29.97"hz so it remained, again for backward compatibility.

chasil

an hour ago

I had a communications theory class in college that addressed "vestigal sideband modulation," which I believe was implemented by Farnsworth. I think this is a critical aspect to the introduction of television technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation#Sup...

drmpeg

21 minutes ago

VSB came later. From https://www.tvtechnology.com/opinions/hdtv-from-1925-to-1994

In the United States in 1935, the Radio Corporation of America demonstrated a 343-line television system. In 1936, two committees of the Radio Manufacturers Association (RMA), which is now known as the Consumer Electronics Association, proposed that U.S. television channels be standardized at a bandwidth of 6 MHz, and recommended a 441-line, interlaced, 30 frame-per-second television system. The RF modulation system proposed in this recommendation used double-sideband, amplitude-modulated transmission, limiting the video bandwidth it was capable of carrying to 2.5 MHz. In 1938, this RMA proposal was amended to employ vestigial-sideband (VSB) transmission instead of double sideband. In the vestigial-sideband approach, only the upper sidebands-those above the carrier frequency-plus a small segment or vestige of the lower sidebands, are transmitted. VSB raised the transmitted video bandwidth capability to 4.2 MHz. Subsequently, in 1941, the first National Television Systems Committee adopted the vestigial sideband system using a total line rate of 525 lines that is used in the United States today.

cultofmetatron

34 minutes ago

> but every TV today is based on his technology.

Philo Farnsworth invented the cathode ray tube. unless you're writing this from the year 2009 or before, I'm going to have to push back on the idea that tv's TODAY are based on his technology. They most certainly are not.

_nub3

7 minutes ago

1897 Ferdinand Braun invents the Cathode Ray Tube dubbed "Braunsche Röhre"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenjiro_Takayanagi

'Although he failed to gain much recognition in the West, he built the world's first all-electronic television receiver, and is referred to as "the father of Japanese television"'

He presented it in 1926 (Farnsworth in 1927)

However father of television was this dude:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_von_Ardenne

Better resolution, wireless transmission and Olympics 1936

shellac

27 minutes ago

No, Braun invented the cathode ray tube.

reactordev

44 minutes ago

Baird did. Farnsworth invented the all-electric version (sans mechanical parts).

A kin to Ed Roberts, John Blakenbaker and Mark Dean invented the personal computer but Apple invented the PC as we know it.

AndrewDucker

an hour ago

There were a great many small breakthroughs over time. Where you draw the line is up to you.

tosti

an hour ago

High definition is nearly 90 years old? I guess their definition of high is quite low by more modern standards.

ronsor

an hour ago

Going from 30 lines to 300 lines is a big leap!

anthk

an hour ago

Cinema was "HD" by design. So, in some way, 35mm movies are HD quality and predate PAL and NTSC standards.

tosti

6 minutes ago

Sure, but that's not TV.

throw4847285

8 minutes ago

Really? But Marquee Moon isn't even 50 years old yet. What were they doing for the first 50?

TacticalCoder

an hour ago

And 100 years ago my great-aunt and grandmother (both RIP) were little kids and my great-grandmother, born in the 19th century and which I knew very well for she lived until 99 years old, was filming them playing on the beach using a "Pathe Baby" hand camera.

I still have the reels, they look like this:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Films_Path%C3%A9-Bab...

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path%C3%A9-Baby

And we converted some of these reels to digital files (well brothers and I asked a specialized company to "digitalize" them).

100 years ago people already had cars, tramways (as a kid my great-grandmother tried to look under the first tramway she saw to see "where the horses were hiding"), cameras to film movies, telephones, the telegraph existed, you could trade the stock market and, well, it's knew to me but TV was just invented too.

jakedata

42 minutes ago

Inspired one of my absolute favorite Zappa grooves.

I am the Slime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCQcEW98OY

I am gross and perverted

I'm obsessed and deranged

I have existed for years

But very little has changed

I'm the tool of the Government

And industry too

For I am destined to rule

And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious

But you can't look away

I make you think I'm delicious

With the stuff that I say

I'm the best you can get

Have you guessed me yet?

I'm the slime oozin' out

From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you

And eat the garbage that I feed you

Until the day that we don't need you

Don't go for help, no one will heed you

Your mind is totally controlled

It has been stuffed into my mold

And you will do as you are told

Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks

Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video

Oozin' along on your livin' room floor

I am the slime from your video

Can't stop the slime, people, look at me go

I am the slime from your video

Oozin' along on your livin' room floor

I am the slime from your video

Can't stop the slime, people, look at me go

Source: Musixmatch

Songwriters: Frank Zappa

I'm The Slime lyrics © Munchkin Music Co

fuzzfactor

17 minutes ago

My buddy has an old Portacolor, but it's only 60.

morkalork

38 minutes ago

Long live the new flesh

racl101

an hour ago

Thank you Mr. Farnsworth.

a3w

an hour ago

And in Futurama, a man with the same family name invents a universal remote. The [drumroll] longer finger!